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Hearing transcripts

1 December 2010 - Afternoon session

1 (2.05 pm)
2 MR KEITH: Thank you, my Lady.
3 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Thank you, Mr Keith. Yes,
4 Mr Coltart?
5 Questions by MR COLTART
6 MR COLTART: Mr Boyce, one very short topic only from me,
7 please.
8 As we understand the position -- I represent some of
9 the bereaved families -- after the event, after the day
10 itself had finished and at some point shortly
11 thereafter, your employer put in place a formal debrief
12 process for those most significant staff members who had
13 been involved on 7 July. All right?
14 This was separate from any counselling or
15 occupational health debriefs which may have taken place,
16 and I have no interest in those at all. That's an
17 entirely private matter between you and those you spoke
18 to. But do you recall, yourself, ever taking part in
19 a sort of feedback session to analyse things that had
20 gone well, things that hadn't gone well, where lessons
21 might be learned for the future?
22 A. I know that I discussed what happened on the day, and
23 I believe we did -- I did discuss with people, I don't
24 know if it was official or just talking to managers,
25 regarding what happened and what we could have done and

1

1 maybe the provision of more equipment available to
2 station staff, but in terms of any formal debrief,
3 I don't remember.
4 Q. I'm just going to take this in stages a little bit. I'm
5 going to deal, firstly, if I can, with the formal
6 process, just to see if I can jog your memory at all in
7 relation to that, because it's obviously quite a long
8 time ago now. Then we'll see where we get to with any
9 informal conversations that may have taken place.
10 Do you know, as far as you're aware, or have you
11 ever had meetings with any of the following individuals
12 from your operational support team at Transport for
13 London: Carl Duncan, Martin Penney or Colin Smith?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Do you ever recall completing what was actually quite
16 a lengthy questionnaire about some of the issues which
17 you've just mentioned: equipment, communications,
18 coordination with the emergency services?
19 A. I think I may have done. It would have been in
20 conjunction with other people. I don't think I done it
21 on my own. But it was some time ago, as you said.
22 Q. The reason why I'm fumbling around a little in the dark
23 as far as this is concerned is that the documentation
24 that was created -- and we understand that 60 members of
25 staff went through this process -- can't, at present, be

2

1 located. So I'm trying to find out through you a little
2 bit more about where it might be, if it still exists.
3 You say that you may have completed some sort of
4 documentation with others. Can you remember who those
5 others might have been?
6 A. If anyone, it would have been with the people who were
7 working with me on the day. As you can be well aware,
8 I did a lot of documentation in the run-up after the
9 bombings, so I couldn't give you a certain ...
10 Q. We have your report that we looked at briefly this
11 morning, the one that you compiled the following day,
12 the written report. Do you remember what other
13 documentation then you might have created over and above
14 that particular document?
15 A. I was asked by London Underground managers, I'm
16 presuming they were, to write an account of what I did,
17 and I emailed it to them. It was done on email. There
18 was no other official ...
19 Q. How soon after the event was that, because your witness
20 statement from the Metropolitan Police was obviously
21 only some 18 months after the event. Are you saying
22 that you did create another document nearer the time?
23 A. It was closer to the time, probably about three to four
24 weeks. It's possible it may still be on my email
25 system, but I couldn't tell you and I haven't looked in

3

1 a long time.
2 Q. If we could just have up on the screen for the moment,
3 please, [INQ9937-2].
4 Just so we're clear about this, is this a different
5 document from the one which we have in front of us here,
6 which, as I had understood it, was the one that you
7 completed the following day?
8 A. That is the one that was completed the following day.
9 That is an official reporting form that we have to fill
10 in and I think that was done as well with -- other
11 people from the station had also done the same thing,
12 I believe.
13 I'd written an email, it was pretty much -- well,
14 blank paper, an email, a Word document, it was to the
15 support manager for one of the directors, I believe, but
16 it was about, say, three, four weeks after it happened.
17 Q. So it was considerably closer to the events in question
18 than the witness statement that we've been working from
19 dated 19 February 2007?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. I don't want to prolong this process for you any longer
22 than is strictly necessary, but would you be willing to
23 check your email to see whether you can find that
24 document for us --
25 A. I can try to.

4

1 Q. -- and provide it either to your employer or to
2 Martin Smith? We can make those arrangements for you.
3 A. No problem.
4 Q. In terms of the informal discussions which you had with
5 people, after the event, can you recall where or when or
6 with whom those might have taken place?
7 A. I couldn't do, no. Most of my time was spent at
8 Leicester Square station, which is the home group of
9 stations for that area, and that's where most of my time
10 was spent and probably where I did this informal
11 debrief, but I couldn't tell you, I don't remember.
12 Q. Some of the concerns which were raised by those who did
13 go through the formal process were summarised in
14 a document that has been provided to us. If I take you
15 through a shortlist of those concerns, would you be able
16 to tell us if any of them related directly to your
17 experiences on the day?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. The concerns raised were:
20 "Poor communications with the National Control
21 Centre."
22 Was that an issue, as far as you were concerned?
23 A. With the exception of the phone calls that I made which
24 were in the statements that were discussed earlier on,
25 I made no other communications with any control centre.

5

1 Q. Other members of staff complained about delays in the
2 arrival of the emergency services.
3 Was that something that concerned you on the day.
4 A. People did complain and, even to an extent, I thought it
5 was a bit excessive to how long they took to show up,
6 but seeing the bigger picture, I can understand that
7 three explosions in the same time, then one a bit later
8 on close to Russell Square, I could almost assume that
9 the ambulances that were coming to Russell Square saw
10 the bus and diverted there, I don't know, but I can
11 understand that it could have taken that sort of time.
12 Q. When you say people complained about the excessive
13 delay, are we talking about people who were involved
14 with you at King's Cross or colleagues of yours involved
15 at the other bombsites?
16 A. I was at Russell Square and the people I was working
17 with there believed it was too long, but then again, if
18 an explosion goes off, you expect the emergency services
19 there instantly, you always do, so I suppose any time
20 could have seemed excessive.
21 Q. Inadequate radio communications was another issue which
22 was raised by some of your colleagues. Firstly, was
23 that again something which you experienced at
24 Russell Square?
25 A. Yes, it would have been. The radio communication system

6

1 then, although it worked, it wasn't as good as it could
2 have been.
3 Q. There are so many different radio systems that were
4 involved within this inquest, I just want to try to
5 clarify what it is that you mean by that.
6 Are you talking about handheld personal radios which
7 are carried by London Underground staff or are you
8 talking about some other sort of radio system?
9 A. Sorry, it's the radio system held by the station staff.
10 I didn't have a radio on me when I went into the tunnel.
11 The driver obviously would have had one on their cab, if
12 it had worked.
13 Now, to my knowledge, the station's handheld radio
14 would not have worked inside the tunnel, not that far
15 in, anyway.
16 Q. How far inside the tunnel at Russell Square would
17 a handheld radio have worked before 7 July?
18 A. I couldn't tell you, I've never tested it, I don't know.
19 Q. A number of London Underground staff eventually followed
20 you into the tunnel. Do you know whether any of them
21 had handheld radios on the day?
22 A. I wasn't looking or asking, I'm afraid.
23 Q. Was it the case that the only means of communicating
24 that you had with the outside world was physically
25 walking the half mile or so back up to Russell Square

7

1 Underground station --
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. -- in order to pass a message?
4 A. That's right.
5 Q. Inadequate lighting was another concern that was raised
6 by some. As we understand it -- perhaps you could just
7 confirm this for us -- there was no lighting at all in
8 the bombed carriage that had been blown out. Is that
9 right?
10 A. That I remember. I couldn't see any lighting on the
11 actual carriage itself.
12 Q. We think -- this might be confirmed by witnesses who
13 went into the second carriage and beyond -- that there
14 was some emergency lighting in those carriages. Are you
15 able to confirm that, or otherwise?
16 A. I can't confirm it. I wasn't looking.
17 Q. Don't worry, we'll ask others about that. A shortage of
18 stretchers was --
19 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Sorry, just before you go on, were
20 you accepting inadequate lighting was a concern of yours
21 because I think you said you had to help the paramedics
22 with a torch, didn't you?
23 A. That's right, the only lighting available was the tunnel
24 telephone system or the tunnel light system, and it's
25 not the brightest of lights, and I dare say that, with

8

1 the explosion and the dust kicked up, that may have
2 obscured or touched the glass of the lighting, which
3 could have made it even dimmer than it was.
4 So it was an issue. I could see just inside the
5 carriage and, by this point, the majority -- well, all
6 the walking wounded had left -- or with the first batch,
7 with Ray Wright had left, so it was easier to see in the
8 carriage. But the lighting, as I say, it could have
9 been brighter, but it could have been the extent of the
10 explosion that caused the lighting to become dimmer with
11 the amount of debris and dust.
12 MR COLTART: Just taking up the point that my Lady makes
13 about the time that you were with the London Ambulance
14 Service person in the carriage and you were holding
15 a light for him. Is this at the stage where that member
16 of staff was carrying out a form of triage process or
17 was checking on those who were living, those who were
18 dead?
19 A. It looked like they were performing some sort of triage.
20 I know that they had -- at least, I think he had some
21 labels in his hand as well and was putting them on
22 people as and when he passed through the carriage.
23 Q. At that stage, he was the only person who was with you
24 from the London Ambulance Service?
25 A. That I can remember, yes. I think more did show up

9

1 afterwards, but I couldn't tell you how many or when.
2 Q. There was a large pile of bodies, as we understand it,
3 at the far end of the carriage. Once you've entered in
4 through the driver's cab, there was a large pile of
5 bodies at the other end of the carriage, eight or nine
6 I think you told us.
7 Was he able to check the people who were lying in
8 that pile, can you recall?
9 A. I can't recall. I know he saw them, but I wasn't paying
10 attention to what he was doing, I was just holding the
11 torch where he wanted me to hold the torch.
12 Q. It needed, did it not, a significant number of
13 responders, emergency responders, there in order to
14 resolve that significant issue at the end of the
15 carriage? I mean, one or two of you was never going to
16 make any significant difference, was it?
17 A. No, it wasn't, we needed a lot more people.
18 Q. Bodies had to be moved out of the way before you could
19 check properly those lying underneath, whether they
20 might still be alive or not?
21 A. Most likely, yes.
22 Q. A shortage of stretchers was another issue which was
23 raised by your colleagues. We don't know specifically
24 whether this relates to King's Cross/Russell Square or
25 whether it relates to the other sites. Without the

10

1 documents we can't tell. But do you recall that being
2 an issue during the evacuation at Russell Square?
3 A. It was an issue. To my recollection, there's only ever
4 one stretcher per platform. That's just Russell Square
5 that I'm talking about. I don't know about the other
6 stations. But it would be an issue, yes.
7 Q. Did it remain an issue throughout the course of the
8 evacuation?
9 A. Yes, it did. The local hotel next door was providing us
10 with blankets and those we were using. Obviously using
11 blankets makes it a lot more difficult to carry anyone,
12 and it took, I think, eight, even nine of us at some
13 stage, I can't remember the exact number carrying the
14 last person that we did, and it was difficult as well,
15 holding the blanket without -- it kept wanting to slip
16 out of your hands.
17 Q. Because, of course, if you've got a properly constructed
18 stretcher it's a two-man job, isn't it; one person at
19 the front, one person at the back?
20 A. That's right.
21 Q. With a blanket, it's an entirely different --
22 A. Because you haven't got the wooden support beams,
23 and ...
24 Q. I think, if we look at your statement at page 5, the
25 last person that you assisted in stretchering out of the

11

1 tunnel, it was a girl, the one who was at point 5 on
2 your plan, the one who had lost her left arm below the
3 elbow and one of her ankles:
4 "Eight of us used a blanket to pick her up and took
5 her to the station."
6 Even towards the end, or right at the end of the
7 evacuation process, you're still having to use blankets
8 in order to get people off the train?
9 A. That's correct.
10 Q. The final complaint which was raised by others, which
11 perhaps is less significant, given the scale of the
12 injuries, is a shortage of first aid boxes, but would
13 that have been of any meaningful assistance to you,
14 given the scene which confronted you on your arrival?
15 A. I dare say they would have been able to help in some
16 way, but I also understand that an incident of this
17 magnitude isn't something that happens every day, so
18 normally, the first aid boxes on the station probably
19 would have been sufficient for a normal, everyday issue,
20 but for something like this, there would never have been
21 enough.
22 Q. So it could only be an add-on or a bonus in a way. What
23 was needed was paramedics, doctors, emergency
24 responders --
25 A. That's correct.

12

1 Q. -- to deal with this properly?
2 A. Yes.
3 MR COLTART: Thank you very much.
4 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Yes, Mr Saunders?
5 Questions by MR SAUNDERS
6 MR SAUNDERS: Mr Boyce, as you know, I represent the family
7 of Lee Harris and I think you've, in the past five
8 years, had occasion to speak with Mrs Lynne Harris, who
9 is again here today.
10 I'd like to ask you, please, just to confirm what
11 I think you may already now appreciate.
12 When it came to your making your statement, which
13 was in the February of 2007, so over 18 months later,
14 you believed, because of what you'd been told, that you
15 may have had dealings with Samantha Badham.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. As you, I think, appreciate, Samantha Badham and
18 Lee Harris had been partners for over 14 years.
19 A. I was aware after speaking to the families.
20 Q. You were. Can I just -- because it may help you as
21 well -- on each of the occasions that you went to the
22 train and back to a station, you always went back to
23 Russell Square?
24 A. That's correct.
25 Q. At no time did you take anybody to King's Cross?

13

1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. You had a look at your plan earlier and, for our
3 reference, it's [INQ9938-2]. When it came to you making
4 the statement, what you tried to do on this was to work
5 out where different people you were able to describe
6 were, as best to your recollection.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. You may or may not recall, Mr Boyce, but the person in
9 position number 8, because of the name you'd been given
10 and what you then learnt, you thought was
11 Samantha Badham.
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. Can I just then ask, please, if we can look at our plan
14 [INQ10283-12]?
15 I don't know whether you've ever seen this before,
16 Mr Boyce.
17 A. No, I haven't.
18 Q. All right. Can I then help you? The left-hand side is
19 the front of the train, carriage number 1. You go to
20 carriage number 1 and you've told us about that already.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. We know that some of the passengers who died were not on
23 that train and, at the bottom in the middle, just where
24 carriage number 4 came to rest, Lee Harris and
25 Samantha Badham were found. Both, at that stage, were

14

1 alive and received treatment. All right?
2 But it's from there that they were then taken, not
3 to Russell Square, but in fact to King's Cross.
4 A. Okay.
5 Q. Now, that we know and we're going to hear --
6 her Ladyship is going to hear evidence next week and the
7 week after that that's where the couple were. So it
8 seems quite clear, I think, that you can't have had any
9 dealings with Samantha Badham.
10 A. It's possible. As I said to the other gentleman earlier
11 on, the person who I thought it was, obviously I was
12 mistaken with the name.
13 Q. I quite see exactly what you're saying. I hope in some
14 way I can reassure you, but it can't have been
15 Samantha Badham, because we know that Samantha and
16 Lee Harris were ejected off the train at the time of the
17 explosion. Therefore, she was never in a position to
18 have been either on carriage number 1, when you arrived,
19 or, even if it could have been person number 7, the hand
20 and the wrist you describe, it can't have been Samantha.
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. All right? It may be -- I don't know, Mr Boyce -- of
23 some comfort, because it's clear from your statement and
24 a little of that evidence you've given, the efforts
25 you've made with the person you thought was Samantha in

15

1 terms of first aid that you administered, a tourniquet,
2 and so it may be that you've thought for some
3 considerable time the efforts you made were in vain,
4 that Samantha, in fact, did die, but it may be -- we
5 don't know, and I haven't been able to trace it -- that
6 your efforts may have resulted in somebody surviving.
7 My Lady, I have no other questions, thank you.
8 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Thank you, Mr Saunders.
9 MR SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr Boyce. Any other questions for
10 Mr Boyce? Mr Patterson?
11 Questions by MR PATTERSON
12 MR PATTERSON: My Lady, I have three short questions for
13 Mr Boyce. May I begin first with timings? One of the
14 things that the families I represent would like to know
15 as best they can with your help is a little bit more
16 about the timings of events in terms of summonsing help.
17 If we begin, then, with 8.49 and the time that we
18 know of the explosion, and then at 8.55, six minutes
19 later, we have in your statement your estimate of the
20 time at which you learnt about the three lifts stalling
21 at Russell Square station. All right? That's the time
22 that you gave in your statement, and presumably you've
23 no reason to think that that's inaccurate?
24 A. Give or take a couple of minutes maybe.
25 Q. Give or take a couple of minutes. We've learnt this

16

1 morning that, at 8.57, that's the time at which you rang
2 Earl's Court and relayed on the information about the
3 customers who were reporting the bangs that had been
4 heard coming from the tunnel. All right?
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. So 8.57, and then at 9.02, we know that there was a call
7 made from, I think, a supervisor, not you, but one of
8 the other supervisors, at Russell Square to Earl's Court
9 referring to you and, I think, Gary Stephens being on
10 the platform and wanting to access the track, but
11 I think, as you told us, you were told initially not to
12 go onto the track, but to hold off for the moment. All
13 right? Does that fit in with your recollection?
14 A. Yes, it does.
15 Q. So the two of you are there on the platform at about
16 9.02, and then the next significant thing, Mr Boyce,
17 would be you seeing in the distance Raymond Wright
18 coming along round the bend, leading the large group of
19 passengers.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Is that right? I think in relation to that, before you
22 even spoke to Raymond Wright, according to your
23 statement, straightaway you told the DSM, Gary Stephens,
24 to call the emergency services.
25 A. That's right.

17

1 Q. I'm looking at page 2 of your statement, for anyone who
2 is following this, that:
3 "When I saw this, I jumped on to the track, told the
4 DSM to stay there, to help people onto the platform and
5 call the emergency services. I ran to see the driver."
6 Is that right?
7 A. That's correct.
8 Q. So before you'd even spoken to him and learnt more
9 information about what had gone on on the train, you
10 asked for the emergency services to be called, is that
11 right?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. Whether Mr Stephens did that straightaway or not,
14 I don't suppose you can help?
15 A. I wouldn't know because I was making my way down the
16 tunnel.
17 Q. Yes. Then the next significant timing would be at 9.08
18 and, my Lady, I'm grateful to Ms Canby for her
19 assistance on this, real time 09.10, it's believed there
20 was a two-minute -- the time was out by about two
21 minutes, the request for ambulances is made by
22 Russell Square by the supervisor Ms Odubela, to the line
23 controller at Earl's Court.
24 So does it follow that, from those times, that would
25 fit in with your recollection: namely, when you see

18

1 Mr Wright and the survivors, you ask for the emergency
2 services to be called and that appears to have been done
3 at about 09.08, real time 09.10?
4 A. It's possible. I was in the tunnel at the time, so
5 I don't know who made what phone calls.
6 Q. Can I ask you about your first attendance in carriage
7 number 1? You described that you moved down the
8 carriage, you described that you saw the hole in the
9 floor that we are aware of as being the seat of the
10 explosion, and you describe the pile of bodies that you
11 saw near the hole. Did you actually move all the way
12 down to that hole in the floor?
13 A. I was close to it, but I didn't actually go to the hole.
14 Looking at what I could see, I didn't think I could get
15 past the hole and over the bodies to carry on towards
16 the end of the carriage.
17 Q. The pile of bodies that you have spoken of, it was on
18 the far side of the hole from where you were?
19 A. From what I remember, yes.
20 Q. You described an episode to your right and a hand and so
21 forth, and you've just been asked questions about that,
22 but what about on your left? Did you at any stage see
23 what was happening to your left in that area and whether
24 there was anyone on the floor there?
25 A. The only person I remember on the floor was a young

19

1 lady. As I said, I believe her name was Marie, but I'm
2 not sure, she was lying on the floor, complaining of
3 a sore back. I helped her get up and found her some
4 shoes and asked her if she was well enough to make her
5 way to the station.
6 Q. Was that in that doorway where the hole in the floor was
7 found, or was that somewhere else?
8 A. I believe it was just before that.
9 Q. Just before that?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. So you can't help with whether there were any signs of
12 life, for instance, in the doorway on the left?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Then finally this, please, Mr Boyce: you mentioned that
15 the paramedics -- and this was, of course, your second
16 visit, the second attendance in carriage 1, after you'd
17 been back to the station. Is that right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. You'd made the calls at 09.22 and 09.25, I think you
20 said?
21 A. Along those sort of times.
22 Q. Around about that time. So the time you went back, the
23 second time, with the paramedics, it must be some time
24 after 09.30, 09.35, something like that, would that be
25 about right?

20

1 A. I would guess so. I think I spent a bit of time on the
2 platform gathering people, seeing more people show up,
3 so I was waiting for a group. I also used that time to
4 give myself a little -- well, not say a break, but you
5 know, a little pant of breath, sort of thing, to, you
6 know, get up and get ready to go again.
7 Q. Yes. One can well see why. So it may have been 09.45,
8 something like that maybe?
9 A. It's possible. The time I just don't remember, sorry.
10 Q. But in any event, have I got it right, it was one
11 paramedic that you saw performing triage when you got
12 back on to the carriage?
13 A. He was with me travelling towards the train.
14 Q. He was with you, and he got on to the carriage --
15 A. With me, yes.
16 Q. -- with you. About 10 to 15 seconds per person, I think
17 you said?
18 A. I'm guessing so, but again, it's -- it all happened so
19 quickly, it could have been longer.
20 Q. Yes, and can you help us with the test that he was
21 carrying out? You've mentioned the tags, the labels.
22 A. Yes, I believe it was -- he was checking for pulses, but
23 he had some equipment with him and he was obviously
24 bending down attending to whoever he could see, and
25 I was leaning over him with a torch, so I couldn't see

21

1 every single thing he was doing.
2 Q. No.
3 A. And his hands obviously weren't always visible to me.
4 Q. So prioritising the need for treatment, but not actually
5 giving treatment at that stage?
6 A. I believe so.
7 MR PATTERSON: Thank you very much.
8 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Any other questions for Mr Boyce?
9 Yes, Mr Gibbs?
10 MR GIBBS: Might I just ask for a little bit more help about
11 timing, please?
12 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Of course.
13 Questions by MR GIBBS
14 MR GIBBS: It's about 08.50 the lifts fail?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Then you see some passengers in the ticket hall who
17 describe having heard a bang?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. So they have made their way up from the platform by the
20 spiral staircase, presumably?
21 A. I presume so.
22 Q. The time is 08.56.11. Someone called Mo rang to report
23 to the duty operations manager the bang on the westbound
24 platform. Who was Mo?
25 A. His name is Mohammed Mulak and he was another duty

22

1 station manager who was on the station and, at that time
2 of day, duty station managers, you have booking on at
3 shifts, but you also have others that do admin duties
4 throughout the day, 9.00 to 5.00.
5 Q. He told the duty operations manager that Gary -- that
6 would be Mr Stephens -- was already down there on the
7 platform?
8 A. I guess so, but I wasn't privy to that conversation.
9 Q. Then at 09.02.26 we have a call to the line controller
10 from Russell Square saying that Mr Stephens was on the
11 westbound platform and had seen something suspicious and
12 wanted permission to go on the track.
13 Were you with him then?
14 A. Yes, I was.
15 Q. 09.08.01, a supervisor from Russell Square rang the line
16 controller asking for ambulances at Russell Square.
17 Would that have been once it was plain that there were
18 injured persons arriving at the platform?
19 A. I would presume so, yes.
20 Q. At 09.10.55, a supervisor again rang about ambulances
21 and was told that they had been called. Did you know
22 that?
23 A. No, I didn't, I was in the tunnel.
24 Q. At 09.13.05 -- and we're adding two minutes -- is the
25 call which you were shown this morning -- I don't ask

23

1 for it to come up again -- to the British Transport
2 Police and that was from someone called Odubela. It's
3 a long call. Actually, I think this court has already
4 heard the audio file of it, many weeks ago. Is it Miss
5 or Mrs Odubela?
6 A. I believe it's Miss, but --
7 Q. She -- we may remember this -- has quite a strong
8 African accent?
9 A. Yes, she does.
10 Q. At 09.21.29, we know that you rang the line controller
11 saying that you had been on the train, that there was
12 a severe loss of limbs, and again reinforcing the call
13 for ambulances. So by that time, 09.21.29, you had been
14 from the platform to the train and come back again, is
15 that right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. At 09.22.05, we have again the other call which you were
18 shown before we broke for lunch to the British Transport
19 Police where you said that there were -- that there
20 had -- it looked like the train had exploded and there
21 was serious loss of life, limbs severed and people
22 dying. Yes?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Again, we're adding a couple of minutes to that 09.22.
25 I wonder whether you thought you'd rung the BTP first

24

1 and then the line controller. May it be that it was the
2 other way round?
3 A. I believe I meant to ring the BTP first, and I can't
4 remember which order I done it in, I think it was -- was
5 it BTP first or line controller first?
6 Q. Well, on these timings, it may be that it was the line
7 controller first, but --
8 A. I know I rang one, meaning to call -- I think I called
9 the line controller first, meaning to call the British
10 Transport Police, but I know it was one of those, I did
11 call both, one after the other.
12 Q. Right. In any event, whichever you rang first, you rang
13 the other one immediately afterwards?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Then you went back to the train and carried on with the
16 work for which you were honoured?
17 A. That's correct.
18 MR GIBBS: Thank you.
19 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Yes, Mr Hill?
20 Questions by MR HILL
21 MR HILL: Mr Boyce, may I just ask you about one matter, and
22 I do so with an apology for taking you back in to the
23 stricken carriage just one more time.
24 The first person whom you saw when you entered the
25 bombed carriage through the J door, the driver's door at

25

1 the end, was a lady who had passed away. You were
2 unable, when asked this morning by Mr Keith, to describe
3 to any degree at all the injuries that that lady had
4 sustained because your attention was drawn by a very
5 seriously injured male passenger.
6 Could I just ask you, notwithstanding that you can't
7 help with injuries, whether you can help us at all as to
8 the description of that lady?
9 A. Not really, I'm afraid. As I saw this person -- getting
10 on the carriage, I saw a lot which obviously was not
11 pleasant at all, and there were limbs on the floor
12 and -- anyway, that took my attention to begin with, but
13 then a gentleman basically said, "Can you help me? I'm
14 uncomfortable", and I went straight to him.
15 This other person that you're referring to, who
16 I saw on the left, I saw them, I saw they weren't
17 moving, but I couldn't give you any more information,
18 I'm afraid.
19 Q. No. As to anything else or anyone else who may have
20 been near or around the location of that lady, can you
21 help at all?
22 A. I'm afraid not, no. My attention turned to Garri.
23 Q. Yes, understandably so. The statement that you
24 eventually provided -- there's no criticism implied in
25 that whatsoever -- is dated February 2007, provided

26

1 a full account of your actions that day, in that
2 statement, you, having seen a lady who passed away,
3 which I've just been asking you about, is not something
4 that features in the statement.
5 Does it follow that it's something that's come to
6 your mind since, or that, for some other reason, was
7 omitted from your statement? Can you help at all about
8 that?
9 A. It's possible, obviously myself and my colleagues have
10 all discussed what we saw and how it worked, and it's
11 possible, I suppose, it could have come back to me, but
12 I don't remember anything of that sort happening.
13 MR HILL: All right, thank you.
14 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Any other questions for Mr Boyce?
15 Those are all the questions we have for you,
16 Mr Boyce. The way you reacted to that terrible
17 situation in which you found yourself was extremely
18 impressive and, given everything that you did to try to
19 help the seriously injured, going backwards and forwards
20 to that train, I'm not surprised that you were honoured
21 with the MBE. So thank you for everything that you did
22 that day, and thank you for coming to help me. I do
23 hope that having to speak about it all again hasn't been
24 too awful for you.
25 A. Thank you, madam.

27

1 MR KEITH: Thank you, my Lady. Thank you, Mr Boyce.
2 My Lady, in relation to the point that my learned
3 friend Mr Saunders raised, can I give him the assurance
4 that I think he was referring to, which is that no
5 passengers who were brought out of Russell Square
6 subsequently died, and, therefore, there is no question
7 that those activities did not relate to somebody who
8 died.
9 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: That confirms, really, the line of
10 questioning that Mr Saunders was putting.
11 MR KEITH: Indeed. If my Lady will excuse me, Mr O'Connor
12 will call the next two witnesses.
13 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: My Lady, can I invite you to call
14 Gillian Hicks?
15 MS GILLIAN CLAIRE HICKS (affirmed)
16 Questions by MR ANDREW O'CONNOR
17 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: Good afternoon. Could you give your
18 full name, please?
19 A. Yes, it's Gillian Claire Hicks.
20 Q. Ms Hicks, you've heard another witness give evidence.
21 It's a big courtroom, so if, while you're giving
22 evidence, you could try to keep your voice up, that
23 would be appreciated. The microphones in front of both
24 you and me don't actually amplify our voices; they just
25 record them. By the same token, if you ever find it

28

1 difficult to hear what I'm saying, do let me know,
2 please.
3 Ms Hicks, I think it's right to say that you were
4 born in Australia --
5 A. Mm-hmm.
6 Q. -- but, in 2005, you had been living in London for some
7 years?
8 A. Mm-hmm.
9 Q. At that time, you were living in Islington in north
10 London?
11 A. That's right.
12 Q. You were working, I think, near Leicester Square?
13 A. Mm-hmm.
14 Q. Your normal journey to work was to take the
15 Northern Line from Tufnell Park station down the
16 Charing Cross branch of the Northern Line to
17 Leicester Square station?
18 A. Correct, yes.
19 Q. On the morning of 7 July, you didn't take quite that
20 route. There were some delays on the Charing Cross
21 branch of the Northern Line, I think, is that right?
22 A. That's correct, yes.
23 Q. So what you did was you got on a Northern Line train at
24 Tufnell Park, but a City branch Northern Line train --
25 A. That's correct.

29

1 Q. -- with the intention of changing at King's Cross on to
2 the Piccadilly Line and then travelling westbound on the
3 Piccadilly Line to Leicester Square?
4 A. Mm-hmm.
5 Q. You undertook that route then and arrived at
6 King's Cross on the Northern Line and changed and walked
7 through to the Piccadilly Line platform?
8 A. That's correct.
9 Q. Can you tell us, when you got to the platform, how busy
10 was it?
11 A. Well, it was peak rush hour, it was absolutely packed,
12 so I'd say four or five people deep. I was quite
13 a small person, so I was jostled around quite a bit, but
14 I found myself at the positioning of -- on that
15 platform, because of the way that you come up through
16 the station at King's Cross from Northern Line, so when
17 you arrive at the Piccadilly Line, you tend to be in the
18 vicinity of the first few carriages of the train coming.
19 Q. The platform was busy. So busy, in fact, that you
20 weren't able to get on to the first train when it
21 arrived?
22 A. No.
23 Q. But no doubt you wormed your way forward?
24 A. I was determined to get on the second train.
25 Q. When the next train arrived, did you get on?

30

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. In the statement that you gave to the police after these
3 events, you said that you got on to the second carriage
4 of that train. Sadly, of course, that wasn't true, was
5 it?
6 A. No.
7 Q. You got on to the first carriage?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Can you help us: did you sit down when you got on to the
10 carriage or did you remain standing up?
11 A. No, I remained standing and was very tightly packed in,
12 standing, I think, at the second set of double doors.
13 Q. I'm going to take you to a plan in a minute and we'll
14 have a look at where you think you may have been
15 standing. Just before we do that, you say in your
16 statement that you were holding on to a pole, I think
17 you say one of the corner poles at the corner end of one
18 of the bench of seats. Is that right?
19 A. It's very hard for me to recollect that now, that I was
20 holding on to something, because it was so tightly
21 packed, but at the time I believe I was very close to
22 that area holding on to something, yes.
23 Q. Could we have a look, then, please, at [INQ10283-9]? If
24 we could zoom in on the carriage plan at the bottom,
25 Ms Hicks, here we see a plan of the first carriage. Do

31

1 you see that the front of the carriage -- indeed the
2 front of the train -- is at the left-hand side?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. There's the driver's cab. The King's Cross platform
5 would have been at the top of this plan as the train
6 arrived at the platform.
7 You mention getting on at the double doors. There
8 are two sets of double doors there, D5 and D3.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Which of the two double doors do you think you would
11 have got on at, if you can remember?
12 A. I think it would have been the second set of double
13 doors, which could have, perhaps, accounted for my
14 confusion over thinking it was the second carriage.
15 Q. So D5, in other words?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Can you help us at all with where, having got on through
18 D5, you were standing?
19 A. I'd say probably central, sort of close -- central,
20 close to the vicinity of, say, 27, but centre of 27, to
21 the double doors.
22 Q. So if you were standing next to a pole, it would have
23 been the pole next to seat 27?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. We've heard from other witnesses about the crush of

32

1 people getting in at King's Cross.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Eventually, the crush ended, the doors closed and the
4 train moved off?
5 A. Mm-hmm.
6 Q. Tell us what happened after that.
7 A. I remember feeling -- or my last thoughts, if you like,
8 were that I wish the train would hurry up because I was
9 uncharacteristically late for work, which I never
10 normally do, and I would say it would be seconds, as we
11 took off, that literally, a click, if that, there was no
12 sound, and everything went completely black, and at the
13 time, I thought that I was having a heart attack, indeed
14 that I was dying or dead, because I remember feeling
15 that, "Well, we don't know what dead is, so is this
16 dead?", and I could hear screams around me and thought
17 that people were panicked over my death or me dying
18 because I was having a heart attack.
19 Q. Was there a particular reason why you thought you may
20 have had a heart problem?
21 A. Just before, I had been diagnosed with having an ectopic
22 heartbeat and, of course, panicked about that, thinking,
23 "I need to take very special care". I was, at the time,
24 a very heavy smoker, so, you know, that -- I was very
25 worried about my state of health.

33

1 But it was only when, I think, I opened my eyes and
2 realised that the blackness was indeed everywhere, it
3 wasn't just for me, and hearing everybody scream, that
4 we are all in this together, so it wasn't my death, it
5 was a shared experience and, strangely, found that
6 comforting for the moments that followed.
7 Q. When this happened, you'd been standing up.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Did you remain standing up or did you fall over?
10 A. No, sorry, I was on the ground. Once again, it's very
11 hard to give a time reference to the sequence, because
12 it's an incredibly timeless experience and things felt
13 that they were happening in slow motion, but equally,
14 they felt like they were happening within seconds.
15 I remember putting my arms up and whether that's
16 from instinct or -- but the absolute need to get up and
17 I couldn't breathe, so I wanted to get up to get air, to
18 get up, get out, and I believe it was a man that leant
19 down and took my hands. After that, I passed out, and
20 the next thing I remembered was waking up and somebody
21 had put me on one of the bench seats. So I was sitting
22 on a bench seat.
23 Q. Most, if not all, I think, of the people who remember
24 you in the carriage refer to you as being on the bench
25 seat. If we look at the plan again, somewhere around

34

1 the seats that are marked on this plan as seats 8, 9,
2 10, somewhere around there. Can you help at all, or do
3 you have a memory of where you were in the carriage?
4 A. I believe, myself, that I was actually on the opposite
5 side to that, so I would have put me on the opposite
6 side to 8, 9 and 10.
7 Q. It probably doesn't matter at all. But at any rate, you
8 think you were probably in that middle portion of the
9 carriage?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. You mentioned that, before you passed out, at that point
12 you heard passengers screaming?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Is there anything more that you heard around this time
15 other than the reaction of the other passengers?
16 A. Just complete panic and everybody screaming, because it
17 was so -- whatever had happened -- I mean, I didn't know
18 it was a bomb, but whatever had happened in that split
19 second, we were all in absolute panic about that.
20 Q. You mentioned that it was dark.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Can you give us an idea of how dark, how much could you
23 see at that time?
24 A. It was so dark at that moment that I've -- the only way
25 I can ever describe it best is as if being in thick tar,

35

1 so the blackness was so black and thick that it felt
2 tangible, that's the depth of the dark.
3 Q. Did it -- the time I'm asking you about is the time
4 immediately after the explosion.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Did the darkness of the carriage, or your ability to see
7 what else was going on in the carriage, did that change
8 in the time that followed? Did it get any lighter or
9 easier to see?
10 A. The only time that it was lighter for me was when
11 I awoke on the bench seat and then it was the security
12 light within the tunnel was shining into the carriage.
13 So it was -- we were able to see, but it was a sort of
14 greyness, a grey haze rather than a thick black.
15 Q. Coming back to the bench seat, then, you were sitting on
16 one side of the carriage or the other. Do you remember
17 which way -- you were lying lengthways on the seats or
18 you were sitting up in the seats?
19 A. I was holding myself up, holding on to a broken window,
20 and deliberately so to try to keep myself awake, because
21 I was able to see the extent of my injuries from the
22 light that was coming through, and knew that I was
23 losing a lot of blood, so I was trying to keep myself
24 awake by holding myself up.
25 Q. So can you help us -- I want, of course, to come and ask

36

1 you about your injuries in a moment, but you were
2 actually holding yourself up above the seat or on the
3 seat?
4 A. No, I was twisted, so I was sitting on the seat and
5 twisted around holding on to the window that was behind
6 the seat.
7 Q. The light from the tunnel was coming in through the --
8 A. From the opposite side.
9 Q. Oh, from the opposite side?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Thank you. You said that the light enabled you to get
12 an idea of your injuries.
13 A. Mm-hmm.
14 Q. Tell us, please, what those injuries were, as far as you
15 could see them?
16 A. I was able to see that I had very much almost lost both
17 legs. They were literally hanging by a sinew of skin,
18 and I was looking at the ankle -- so the ankles were
19 very separate to -- the ankles and feet were separate to
20 the calf and length of the legs, and my first thoughts
21 were how -- it looked very odd and very strange, and
22 trying to assess that, because you're seeing yourself in
23 a way that isn't right, so I was trying to assess what
24 exactly had happened, and what can I do about it.
25 Q. In the statement you gave to the police, you describe it

37

1 as being at around this time that you first came into
2 contact with a person who you now know
3 to be Alison McCarthy, is that right?
4 A. That's correct, yes.
5 Q. What was it that she did or that brought her to your
6 attention?
7 A. Alison -- firstly, through her name, so my mother's name
8 was Alison, and so I remember Alison very clearly.
9 Alison was sitting across from me and she was helping
10 Garri Hollness and talking to me quite a lot, we were
11 all talking, it was a very serene and calm and quiet
12 time within the carriage, except for the very few that
13 perhaps were passing away or severely injured around us,
14 but we were able to hold conversations, and I remember
15 at one stage having to say, "I can't talk any more",
16 because I needed to conserve as much energy as possible
17 because I was worried about fading and slipping into
18 a state of unconsciousness, which then I understood as
19 being -- you know, I would die.
20 Q. You described the injuries to your legs.
21 A. Mm-hmm.
22 Q. In your statement, you refer to applying tourniquets to
23 your legs.
24 A. Mm-hmm.
25 Q. In her statement Alison McCarthy refers to assisting you

38

1 in that process.
2 A. I don't remember Alison coming over to assist me, but
3 I remember ripping -- I still had a scarf on and
4 I remember ripping the scarf and tying my left leg first
5 above the thigh and then I went to move to my right leg
6 and I put my hand into my thigh and my hand went right
7 in, and I was -- I remember feeling extremely worried at
8 that point, in a strange way, because I had already
9 assessed that, from the knee down, the legs were gone,
10 I wasn't prepared for my hand going into my right thigh.
11 So I tied the rest of the scarf up above that point,
12 and then took -- pushed my legs over the handrail, or
13 over the bench seat that still had a handrail there and
14 twisted my body round so I was elevated up.
15 Q. Now, as you say, there had been a period between this
16 time and the blast when you'd actually been unconscious.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. I wouldn't normally ask you if you could give us an idea
19 of what time it was at this time, if it wasn't for the
20 fact that in your police statement you actually refer to
21 looking at your watch and having an idea of what time it
22 was.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. So can you help us with what time it was?
25 A. It's the saddest thing, isn't it, that I would be the

39

1 one person that spent most of their time staring at
2 exactly this watch, but I couldn't tell you the exact
3 time other than it felt like, perhaps, between 40 and
4 50 minutes that I was sitting there.
5 Q. In your statement I think you refer to it being about
6 9.00, that's about ten minutes after the blast, when you
7 were actually on the seat.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you have a memory of that?
10 A. I don't have a clear memory of that, but something
11 around, you know, 9.00 being on my watch face. I was
12 looking at it mainly to distract me from the rest of the
13 scenery and to focus on something that could draw my
14 attention.
15 Q. You've described the position you were in on the seat
16 holding yourself up towards the window. Did there come
17 a time when you changed your position and adopted a more
18 sort of lengthways position on the seat?
19 A. It was very hard to keep conscious, and because I was
20 losing quite a lot of blood and I had other injuries to
21 my back and to my head, which I didn't know at the time,
22 so I was falling back and trying to pull myself up again
23 and falling back, but I remember very clearly desperate
24 to stay upright because, when help eventually came,
25 I wanted to be able to wave to say, "I'm here and I'm

40

1 alive", so that was my motivation for trying to stay
2 upright.
3 Q. You've said that Alison was across the other side of the
4 carriage helping Garri Hollness.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Were there occasions when she came across to you and
7 talked to you?
8 A. I don't recall that at all, because there were people in
9 the middle of us on the ground.
10 Q. But at any rate, you were aware of her?
11 A. Very aware.
12 Q. Because you were talking to her?
13 A. We were all talking, yes.
14 Q. Did you have an awareness of what was going on, either
15 towards the driver's end of the carriage or the other
16 side towards where the bomb had gone off?
17 A. To my right, there was --
18 Q. Which was towards the driver?
19 A. No, towards the -- well, I remember the hole in the
20 ground.
21 Q. Yes, I'm sorry, so the other way?
22 A. The other way.
23 Q. The back of the train?
24 A. Opposite from the driver's end, and a definite pile of
25 bodies that looked -- everything sort of had an

41

1 appearance as if it was meant to be in that position in
2 that scene in that time, it was a very odd feeling, and
3 that most people were -- all their clothes had been
4 removed, and I was trying to understand what could have
5 happened, and then, to the left of me, on the bench
6 seat, there appeared to be somebody who was slumped
7 quite low, who I believed -- I could not see his head or
8 face or whether it was a male or a female, but
9 I believed that person to be decapitated and so
10 I couldn't quite work out -- I was trying not to pay too
11 much attention other than to keep focused on something
12 else and wait.
13 I think the only time I really panicked was
14 wondering if anyone knew that we were down there.
15 Q. Having regained consciousness, as it were, or become
16 aware of where you were again, once you were on the
17 seat, did you lose consciousness again before help
18 arrived? We'll come on to that in a minute.
19 A. I don't know. For me, I felt that I was conscious until
20 help arrived because the last thing I remember within
21 the carriage was a touch on my right shoulder and the
22 words "1" and then "priority 1", and then, after that,
23 it was -- it's bits and pieces as I was going down the
24 tunnel.
25 Q. In your statement that you gave to the police you say

42

1 you remember someone coming towards you with a torch,
2 a man, a man on his own with a torch, I think you
3 said --
4 A. Mm-hmm.
5 Q. -- in your statement. Is that something you still have
6 a memory of?
7 A. Yes, the first sort of hint, I guess, of anything that
8 I thought could be rescue was some voices within the
9 tunnel. Because I was by a broken window, I could hear
10 people that were talking, and whether that was
11 Underground staff, I don't know, because I don't
12 remember that they were the people that entered the
13 carriage, but I remember seeing then, yes, the torch
14 that entered, and that -- just sheer relief, that
15 I could surrender to somebody else.
16 Q. We heard yesterday from a man called Mr Nairn, who was
17 the Tube driver, who talked about coming back into the
18 carriage with a torch, and in fact he referred to
19 approaching you and Alison McCarthy and talking about
20 needing bandages and so on.
21 Do you think it may have been him that came to you?
22 I don't know if you've met him since.
23 A. Yes, I know Tom very well. I'm not sure whether it was
24 him or not because I don't remember that conversation
25 happening about what we needed, but I do remember

43

1 talking quite a lot and wanting to appear absolutely
2 awake and aware because I was so worried that my
3 injuries looked so severe that I would be left behind
4 and I don't know why I would have thought that, but that
5 was my feeling at the time.
6 Q. In your statement -- again, no doubt a product of having
7 been watching the time during this episode -- you say
8 that it was probably about 20 or 25 minutes after the
9 blast that the man with the torch approached you.
10 A. That would feel right, yes.
11 Q. That would certainly fit with it being Mr Nairn. As
12 you've already mentioned, you also have a memory of
13 someone touching you on the shoulder and triaging you,
14 to use the technical term, and making you,
15 unsurprisingly, in the circumstances, a priority 1.
16 A. Mm-hmm.
17 Q. The evidence that we're likely to hear is that actually
18 took place some time later, a paramedic called
19 Mr Whittaker attended to you.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. It's likely to be the evidence that he, in fact, arrived
22 something between 50 minutes and an hour after the
23 explosion.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. But it may be that you don't have a clear memory of

44

1 exactly when that happened.
2 A. No, but it does feel absolutely reasonably that I would
3 have been there for up to an hour, yes.
4 Q. During this time, you've already mentioned seeing Alison
5 across the way, helping with Garri Hollness. Is there
6 anything further you can help us with about what you saw
7 in the carriage, what you remember of the carriage in
8 the period up to the time when Mr Whittaker came and
9 assisted you?
10 A. I think it was -- because of the very quiet, serene
11 nature of it, it did feel that there were voices coming
12 from my right-hand side, so not where the pile of bodies
13 were, but close to the pile of bodies, and a female
14 voice saying that she was -- she was saying, "I'm dying,
15 I'm dying", but it was -- but we were all very quiet in
16 there, other than conversations of trying to keep each
17 other awake or indeed trying -- those who were alive
18 trying to keep each other alive.
19 Q. You say you heard a voice saying -- a female voice
20 saying that she was dying. Were you able to see the
21 person who said that?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Do you remember anything about the voice; for example,
24 whether there was a foreign accent or anything of that
25 nature?

45

1 A. No, only just trying to pinpoint -- so I'd lost the ear
2 drum in this right ear and partial hearing in my left
3 now, so it was trying to see where I could pinpoint that
4 sound. But it felt like it was coming from the right of
5 me.
6 Q. As you've said, you have the memory of the paramedic
7 arriving, triaging you, and you then have a memory of
8 being taken out of the train --
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. -- on a makeshift stretcher, I think.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Certainly the evidence that we'll hear coincides with
13 that --
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. -- that evidence. You also say in your statement that
16 really it's at that point that your memory ends and that
17 your next recollection is waking up in hospital.
18 A. It was -- I remember parts of the tunnel and a feeling
19 of very much a struggle from the people who were
20 carrying me on this makeshift stretcher, being put down
21 within the tunnel because, either the makeshift
22 stretcher broke, or something had happened, that I was
23 put down, and then picked back up again. So I remember
24 those sorts of moments if you like, but it was very much
25 touch and go and, from what I now know, that I had

46

1 arrested several times at the station itself and again
2 at the top of the platform. So no recollection at all,
3 indeed, until waking up in hospital.
4 Q. Just to be clear, it was the Russell Square station that
5 you were taken to?
6 A. It was at Russell Square.
7 Q. As you say, you were resuscitated for some time in the
8 ticket hall of the station?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Then you were taken to St Thomas's Hospital --
11 A. St Thomas's Hospital.
12 Q. -- I think it was, where you underwent considerable
13 surgery?
14 A. Yes.
15 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: Thank you very much, Ms Hicks. Those
16 are all the questions I have for you, I'm sure that some
17 of my colleagues will have some more questions.
18 MR SAUNDERS: Nothing thank you, my Lady.
19 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Mr Patterson?
20 Questions by MR PATTERSON
21 MR PATTERSON: Two very short points, if I may, please. On
22 the screen I think we still have that diagram. You've
23 indicated where you think you were when you were up on
24 the bench. So roughly in and around those seats that
25 are marked 31, 30, 29, I think you said.

47

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Can I ask you this: you've indicated to your right there
3 was the pile of bodies?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You describe hearing voices, and one voice in
6 particular, a female voice. At seat 12, so opposite you
7 and along slightly to the right, we can see that the
8 pole is marked and one of the families that I represent,
9 the Gunoral family, their daughter, a 24-year-old girl,
10 was found against that pole.
11 A. Right.
12 Q. One of the main issues for them is whether there was any
13 evidence that she might have still been alive in the
14 aftermath of the explosion. Are you able to help with
15 that?
16 A. That would be the area in which I believe I would have
17 heard someone crying out, but I would not be able to
18 help if that was -- as a specific person, no.
19 Q. No, or with descriptions, and you've already said you
20 can't help with whether it was a foreign accent or not?
21 A. No, sadly, no.
22 Q. Equally, just beyond there, in the corner of the
23 doorway, just beyond that perspex sheet there was the
24 body found of Mrs Mozakka, again a family I act for, and
25 again, one of their concerns is whether she might have

48

1 been alive in the minutes that followed the explosion.
2 Again, it doesn't sound as though you ever moved
3 from the seats that you were in.
4 A. No.
5 Q. Or were able to see round into that area?
6 A. No, sadly, no.
7 Q. Finally this: I think you have, in fact, been spoken to
8 by several of the newspapers, haven't you, over the
9 years, and you've recounted your recollections of these
10 events?
11 I think in one of the interviews with the Daily
12 Telegraph you spoke about the police officer in
13 particular who came to you and removed you from the
14 carriage. I think you said that it was a police officer
15 who had tapped you and said "priority 1", is that right,
16 or can you help with whether it was a paramedic?
17 A. No, there was a specific police officer who was with me
18 in my rescue down the tunnel who held my hand the entire
19 time, but in terms of being triaged in the actual
20 carriage, I now know the paramedics who were involved in
21 that, so --
22 Q. So there were no police officers dealing with you at
23 that stage, it was Mr Whittaker alone --
24 A. So they did enter --
25 Q. -- the name that's been supplied?

49

1 A. But the police officers did enter the carriage, so they
2 were working with the paramedic at the time, the
3 paramedics at the time.
4 MR PATTERSON: Yes. Thank you very much.
5 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Any other questions for Ms Hicks?
6 Ms Hicks, where do you get such an indomitable
7 spirit? It sounds as if, by a determination to live,
8 sheer willpower and quick thinking, you saved your own
9 life.
10 Until I started this process, I had no idea that
11 people could survive injuries as horrific as yours. You
12 are amazing, you sound amazing, you look amazing. So
13 thank you very much for coming to tell me about it. I'm
14 sorry we've had to ask you to do it. I appreciate that
15 you've had lots of time to think about what happened.
16 If -- and this applies to any other survivors -- any of
17 you have any thoughts about lines of enquiry you want me
18 to pursue or questions to be asked, please don't
19 hesitate to get in touch with my team. Thank you very
20 much.
21 What would you rather I did, Mr O'Connor? Do we
22 have Mr Hollness here today?
23 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: Mr Hollness has not been able to make
24 it, my Lady, he has been snowed in, I'm sad to say, he's
25 coming on Monday. We have Ms McCarthy here to give

50

1 evidence. She is the last live witness.
2 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Shall we call Ms McCarthy?
3 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: My Lady, yes.
4 MS ALISON ELIZABETH McCARTHY (affirmed)
5 Questions by MR ANDREW O'CONNOR
6 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: Could you give your full name, please.
7 A. Alison Elizabeth McCarthy.
8 Q. Ms McCarthy, in July 2005, you lived in Finsbury Park in
9 north London?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. I think you worked near Russell Square?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Your normal route to work involved taking the
14 Piccadilly Line from Finsbury Park Tube station down to
15 Russell Square?
16 A. Yes, that's correct.
17 Q. That's the route that you were following on the morning
18 of 7 July?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You got into the first carriage of the Piccadilly Line
21 train at Finsbury Park?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. I wonder if you could help us with exactly where you
24 were. Could we have on the screen two documents,
25 please? First, [INQ9093-2], and if we could zoom in on

51

1 the bottom plan there and reverse it, if possible, and
2 then also have [INQ10283-9] and, again, zoom in on the
3 bottom.
4 I hope that makes sense, Ms McCarthy, you'll see
5 that the top plan is the one that you filled in.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. I've put it upside down simply so that we can understand
8 it better with the plan that we're using, which is the
9 one below. The only reason I'm looking at the one below
10 as well is that it has the seat numbers and it's a bit
11 easier to talk about in court.
12 We see there the first carriage of the train, don't
13 we?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. You'll see that the driver's cab is on the left-hand
16 side on both of the plans. That's the front of the
17 train.
18 If we look at the top plan, you marked there where
19 you were standing on that morning.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. If we transfer that down to the bottom plan that we've
22 been familiar with, that's just next to seat 27. Is
23 that right?
24 A. That's correct, I was standing holding the pole at the
25 corner of seat 27.

52

1 Q. So from the sounds of it, you were probably standing
2 very close to Ms Hicks?
3 A. Yes, I guess so, if she says she was in that area.
4 I mean, I was basically standing facing directly towards
5 the driver's -- the front of the train, holding the pole
6 in front of me, so, yes, right on that corner.
7 Q. You don't remember seeing her before the events?
8 A. I don't really recall who was there. It was very
9 crushed. I remember sort of holding my paper and
10 holding the pole and it was literally -- it was so
11 crushed, so I don't really recall seeing anybody very
12 close to me.
13 Q. Was it crushed when you got on at Finsbury Park or did
14 it become crushed later?
15 A. Yes, the train was 10 minutes late, which was very
16 unusual for an Underground train, in rush hour, so it
17 was incredibly busy, and I did have to really fight to
18 get on it. So it was busy from Finsbury Park and then
19 obviously, when we got to King's Cross as well, you
20 know, obviously more people -- people get off and more
21 people get on, and it was very crushed at that point as
22 well, so it was a very busy train, yes.
23 Q. When it got to King's Cross, as you say, lots of people
24 got off?
25 A. Yes.

53

1 Q. You were one of the ones who was staying on?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you, at that point, manage to get a seat, as
4 sometimes one is able to?
5 A. No, because I was getting off at the next stop, which
6 was Russell Square, so I never sort of sit, I always
7 stand. On that journey, I always stood, anyway, because
8 it was very quick.
9 Q. So although there were people moving and getting off and
10 then more people getting on, you just stayed standing at
11 that pole by seat 27?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. While that process of people getting off and getting
14 back on again was going on, or possibly towards the end
15 of that process, do you remember an exchange of words
16 between two of the people involved?
17 A. I do remember a lady I think saying, "Can people move
18 down please", which a lot of people do on an Underground
19 train, you know, to get people to move down obviously,
20 and I do remember, I think, a man making a joke and
21 saying, "Can someone get on the roof?" or "Can some of
22 you get on the roof, please?", and I remember laughing
23 at that and that's why I remember it.
24 Q. Do you remember seeing the man who said that?
25 A. No, no, I don't recall anybody's sort of face, I don't

54

1 think -- you know, on an Underground train, you don't
2 really look at people when you're commuting. As I say,
3 I was reading my paper, so I don't really remember
4 seeing people.
5 Q. Do you even remember whereabouts the man would have been
6 standing?
7 A. No, I got the impression he might -- well, obviously --
8 sorry, I was thinking about the woman, she was obviously
9 getting on, I don't think I had an idea of where the man
10 would have been. Since then, I think Garri said to me,
11 Garri Hollness said to me that it was him who made that
12 comment, so from that, maybe it was him, and he would
13 have been standing very close to me.
14 Q. Well, we've already heard some evidence about that and
15 we'll hear from Mr Hollness on Monday.
16 In any event, there came a time when the Tube doors
17 closed and the train moved off into the tunnel in the
18 direction of Russell Square.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What happened after that?
21 A. Well, I don't recall a noise because -- well, my -- both
22 my ear drums were perforated, blown out, by the
23 pressure, so I don't recall hearing a noise. I just
24 remember, you know, just a sudden blackness and the
25 sensation of sort of falling or being sort of crumbled

55

1 by a force, it felt like a big pair of hands were
2 crumpling me down and, a bit like Gill, I thought
3 something had happened to me, I thought I had fainted
4 and I was sort of embarrassed, I thought, "Oh no, what's
5 happened?"
6 But I think then I must -- well, I know I passed out
7 because the next thing I knew I woke up and it must have
8 been much later on because the carriage was pretty much
9 empty of people, so --
10 Q. You fell to the ground, I take it?
11 A. Yes, I found myself on the ground, yes.
12 Q. You woke up, you don't know, obviously, how long you had
13 been unconscious for?
14 A. No, as I say, just sort of trying to piece it together.
15 Because the carriage had emptied, I presume it must have
16 been 15 minutes, something like that, enough time for
17 people to get off, and there must have been panic and
18 all of that, so I imagine it was something like 15 or
19 20 minutes.
20 Q. What happened when you came back to consciousness?
21 A. The first thing I remember was noises, I remember
22 hearing, I think, a lady saying, "Please don't let me
23 die", I think that was the first thing I thought, "Oh my
24 God, what's happened?", you know, again, it's not just
25 me, something's happened to everybody, and, you know,

56

1 that's quite a shock to hear someone say, you know,
2 "Please don't let me die".
3 I remember I was in a sort of pile of debris and,
4 I guess, bodies, and there was a man next to me on my
5 left who was obviously struggling in getting up and
6 I think he must have sort of woken me from my
7 unconsciousness, because he was sort of getting up and
8 I think, at that point, I became aware of Garri to my
9 right sort of saying, "Hang on, mate", as in to say, "Be
10 careful what you're doing".
11 Q. Can we -- let's come on to Garri Hollness in a minute.
12 Just before we do, you mentioned hearing a woman saying,
13 "Please don't let me die".
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Do you know who that was?
16 A. No, I don't.
17 Q. Can you say whether it was Gill Hicks or not?
18 A. No, I really don't know who it was.
19 Q. Can you remember what direction her voice came from?
20 A. It would probably just be a guess. I think it was
21 coming to my right, maybe to the back.
22 Q. Just looking at the plan -- please tell us how confident
23 you are about this, but you understand why we're
24 interested in the answer.
25 A. Yes.

57

1 Q. You came to, you were lying on the floor, somewhere on
2 the floor near seat 27?
3 A. Well, I actually ended up with my legs sort of either
4 side of the corner, you know, the pole and the corner of
5 the seats at 27, or maybe a little bit back, because
6 I remember I had been holding on to the pole and I used
7 the pole to get up again so I was right on the corner of
8 27, and I really can't be sure, but I think the
9 direction of the woman saying that was to my right, so
10 maybe around 12 or perhaps back there.
11 Q. You heard me ask Ms Hicks. Do you remember anything
12 about the voice; for example, that it was spoken with
13 a foreign accent?
14 A. No, I just remember it was a woman's voice. I think
15 maybe they said -- yes, they said, "Please God", so
16 I just made an assumption that it's a religious person,
17 but I don't remember the voice.
18 Q. In any event, your attention was drawn to Mr Hollness?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Tell us what happened with him.
21 A. Well, he said to this man next to me, you know, "Be
22 careful", whatever, I can't remember his exact words,
23 and the man got up and sort of walked away and I think
24 I turned to Garri and said -- and introduced myself,
25 I think, and I think we even shook hands, actually, and

58

1 Garri said to me, "Oh, you know, I've lost my leg", and
2 I could see that he had, and I think I just thought,
3 "What do I say?", you know, and I think I might have
4 said, "No, you just can't feel it", but he obviously
5 could see and he insisted, "Look, I've lost my leg".
6 Q. Where was Garri Hollness at this time?
7 A. He was sitting to my right, very close to me to my
8 right.
9 Q. On one of the seats?
10 A. No, he was on the floor next to me and his leg was up on
11 seat 27. I think maybe both legs, but certainly the leg
12 that he -- the foot that he'd lost was on the seat
13 underneath his leg, and so I could see that it was not
14 attached and ... yes.
15 Q. Did you move him at all or help him to move?
16 A. I remember saying I had to get up and I was going to get
17 a tourniquet. I think someone else -- I'm pretty sure
18 someone else lifted him on to the seat because he ended
19 up on the seat at about 29, 30, and I think it was
20 Joseph who helped him, I think that I've pieced that
21 together since. At the time, I don't remember Joseph
22 actually lifting him on to the seat. It wasn't me.
23 Q. You mentioned "Joseph". Do you know his surname?
24 A. I can't remember now.
25 Q. I'm sure we may well be able to find it. You were

59

1 saying about a tourniquet.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. This was a tourniquet for Mr Hollness, was it?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. What did you do about that?
6 A. Well, I had on a blue -- a light-blue sort of running
7 cagoule-type material top and I was hot, so -- and
8 I thought this would be a great tourniquet, so I took
9 that off and I also took off a cardigan because I was
10 hot, and I used that, the arm of the cagoule to tie it
11 round Garri's legs as a tourniquet and it was actually
12 ideal because it was that sort of nylon material that
13 can tighten, so, yes, I used that.
14 Q. Do you have any medical training?
15 A. No.
16 Q. So you were relying on your sort of general knowledge of
17 the need to put a tourniquet on when there's an injury
18 of that seriousness?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What was going on in the carriage around you while this
21 was happening?
22 A. It was very dark. I sort of -- you know, I've got very
23 bitty memories of noises and smells and sights and of
24 other people sort of in bits where they were, but I only
25 really remember Garri at this point and then obviously

60

1 talking to Gill. I don't remember -- I don't think
2 I was fully aware of everything in the carriage and
3 I think, you know, my pain and what was going on around
4 me was just focusing me on that sort of what was
5 happening immediately in front of me.
6 Q. You mention your pain. You obviously weren't as
7 seriously injured as Garri Hollness or Gillian Hicks --
8 A. No.
9 Q. -- but what injuries did you suffer? What were you
10 aware of at the time?
11 A. At the time I was just really aware of my back. I was
12 in agony. I only bruised it, but at the time I thought,
13 you know, "What have I done?", I really didn't know what
14 I'd done. Obviously, I could move around, I could walk
15 around, but I was really -- I didn't know what I'd done
16 to my back, it was really hurting. I had leg injuries
17 which I wasn't -- I couldn't feel and I wasn't aware of
18 at all, it was the pain in my back that I could feel.
19 Q. You say that, when you recovered consciousness, the
20 carriage seemed to be much emptier than it had been
21 before.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Were you aware of people actually leaving the carriage
24 at any time?
25 A. Not really. I mean, as I say, when I first was roused,

61

1 there was a man who got off and got up and walked away,
2 I imagine he left the carriage. But, no, after that, no
3 one that I was aware of got off the carriage.
4 Q. We have heard evidence from Mr Nairn and also Mr Wright,
5 the two Tube drivers, that they made announcements, if
6 you like, telling people that, if they could walk, they
7 should leave the carriage, and we've heard what
8 happened, which was that those people left out of the
9 front of the train and walked up to Russell Square.
10 Did you hear any announcements of that nature?
11 A. No, no, not at all, no.
12 Q. Did you consider leaving the train yourself?
13 A. No, it didn't occur to me. I'd lost my shoes as well,
14 and I had glass embedded in my feet, so I -- but also,
15 I didn't -- it didn't occur to me to leave, I didn't
16 want to leave Garri and the others.
17 Q. Coming back to Garri, then, having put the tourniquet on
18 him, what did you do?
19 A. This is where my memory is a bit hazy because, as I say,
20 he was then on the seat next to -- he was on the seat
21 sort of 29, 30, lying in that direction. I think it's
22 at that point that I went over to speak to Gill, who was
23 on the opposite seats. She was sitting -- as I recall
24 it, she was sitting at sort of 8 or 9 with her legs sort
25 of on the seat over the sort of arms of 9 or 10, that

62

1 sort of area, and I went over to speak to her and
2 I think I said to her, "You need a tourniquet", and
3 I think I sort of looked around the carriage for
4 something suitable and I think that's when she took her
5 scarf off and tied it round her leg and I remember
6 helping her, I know that she doesn't recall it, but
7 I remember helping her on one leg and then I think
8 I said, "You need another tourniquet" and I was again
9 being a bit ineffectual and sort of looking round the
10 carriage and thinking, "What can I use?", and I think
11 that's when she ripped her scarf and did it herself
12 while I was just kind of flailing.
13 I think I picked up a leather jacket to tie round
14 her leg and I think might have even tied it round, but
15 it wasn't any use.
16 Q. You were talking to them both during this period.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What were you saying to them?
19 A. Well, I sat down -- I sat back down next to Garri's
20 head, at sort of 31, 30, because I was in so much pain,
21 and I think Garri wanted to put his head on my lap, but
22 I had a really bad injury at the back of my right knee
23 so that really hurt and I got him a bag instead, and
24 I was -- I remember having a conversation with Garri and
25 sort of asking, you know, his name and what he does and

63

1 where he worked, to kind of just keep him talking, and
2 I think I shouted across to Gill, you know, just to sort
3 of check that she was still with us, but because I was
4 in a lot of pain, I don't remember too many sort of
5 conversations, just kind of really shouting at people
6 just to make sure they were still with us, really.
7 Q. I want to come on to talk about rescuers and what
8 happened when they arrived.
9 Can we take it that at this time you were, in
10 a sense, on your own in the carriage?
11 A. As I say, I do remember Joseph, I think his name was,
12 who was also there. I think he was sort of sitting down
13 on the floor by the double doors at D3, and I remember
14 there was another lady who was, I think, lying across
15 the seats of 11 and 12, and I do also remember torch
16 lights and people from both stations, both
17 Russell Square and King's Cross, at both ends of the
18 carriage, were talking to each other, shouting to each
19 other, and I remember torch lights shining.
20 So we weren't on our own, and it was very reassuring
21 to know that there were people there.
22 Q. Just focusing for a moment on the other injured
23 passengers in the train, we've heard about
24 Garri Hollness, also about Gillian Hicks. You've
25 mentioned just now -- and I think you refer to this in

64

1 your statement -- another woman opposite you.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. You refer to her in your statement, I think, as someone
4 sitting opposite, crying with pain.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. If you're right that you were sitting with Garri
7 somewhere around seats 31, 30, 29, this person would
8 have been on the other bench of seats. Is that right?
9 A. Yes, as I remember, she was lying across the top of 11
10 and 12, sort of ...
11 Q. What do you remember about her?
12 A. I don't remember a lot and, to my shame, I don't think
13 I got her name. I think I might have asked her and
14 forgotten or asked if she was okay, or something, but
15 I think you know -- I think that that was while I was
16 standing over Gill, and I think I just sort of, you
17 know, got -- it was too painful and I had to sit down,
18 so I don't recall a lot about that lady.
19 Q. Do you recall what happened to her?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Might she have died?
22 A. Possibly.
23 Q. We know that there were a number of people who were
24 found dead in that area, below seats 11 and 12 and round
25 the corner towards door D5.

65

1 A. Mm-hmm.
2 Q. You've mentioned the lady in seats 11 and 12. Were you
3 aware of any other signs of life in that area?
4 A. Not of life, not of people who were alive, no.
5 Q. Can I take you back a little bit to the corner where you
6 found yourself after the blast, on the other side of the
7 carriage, near door D6, near where you'd been standing?
8 Later, two ladies were found lying on top of one
9 another there, Shelley Mather and Susan Harrison. They
10 were found in that corner next to seat 27, so quite
11 possibly very close to where you were lying when you
12 recovered consciousness.
13 Do you have any memory of either of them?
14 A. No, I -- as I said, I woke up in what I thought was just
15 a pile of, you know, sort of debris, and which I know
16 now must have been bodies, but I don't think I really
17 looked there. I think my mind knew I just didn't want
18 to look in that area because I don't recall a lot about
19 sort of that area.
20 Q. Let's come then to the rescuers. You've mentioned
21 torches and members of the station staff at either end
22 shining their torches.
23 As I said to Ms Hicks, we heard yesterday the
24 evidence of Mr Nairn, the Tube driver, who said that he
25 came down and shined his torch towards you and Gill and

66

1 that there was a conversation about needing bandages for
2 tourniquets and so on.
3 Do you have a memory of that conversation?
4 A. I don't remember the conversation at all. I remember
5 the torches. My impression was that that person with
6 the torch was maybe even outside the carriage, you know,
7 shining in through the driver's cab door and they were
8 talking to someone at the King's Cross end, who I think
9 was talking about the door being blocked, having firemen
10 to remove the door or something, but I basically got the
11 impression that they couldn't get to each other and
12 there was a blockage and they were shouting to each
13 other.
14 I think I tried to help them communicate, but again,
15 I had lost my hearing in one ear and completely in the
16 other ear, almost completely, so I probably wasn't very
17 helpful in relaying messages, but I knew I wanted to
18 kind of make sure that they knew that the other person
19 was there and that we were there.
20 So I remember torches and conversations, but I don't
21 know what was said.
22 Q. You were sitting with Garri Hollness. Did there come
23 a time when the pain from your injuries meant that you
24 took yourself away and lay down somewhere?
25 A. Yes, I went and laid down -- I looked over, and between

67

1 the front double doors D3 and D4, there was a space on
2 the floor which looked sort of pretty clear of debris,
3 and I just had it in my head that, if I laid down and
4 got my back flat, it might be less painful. So I did
5 then go and lie down in the middle of the floor,
6 basically, and with my head towards the driver's cab.
7 Q. You were lying there when the paramedics arrived?
8 A. Yes, it was David Boyce who came on with, I thought,
9 numerous paramedics, but I don't know if that's correct,
10 and it was David who basically spoke to me and picked me
11 up off the floor and said, "Can you walk?", and found me
12 some shoes and took me off the train.
13 Q. You were then walked by Mr Boyce or by someone else back
14 to Russell Square?
15 A. I don't recall. I mean, I remember coming out of the
16 train at the driver's cab and just looking and seeing
17 a sea of faces which was so amazing and so reassuring,
18 and they helped me off the train, and I don't -- I'm not
19 sure if it was David or someone else who basically
20 walked me up, up the tunnel to Russell Square.
21 Q. Last thing. You mentioned someone called Joseph --
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. -- helping with Garri Hollness, I think it was.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Mr Coltart has kindly suggested to me that it may have

68

1 been Joseph Keneally.
2 A. Yes, that's right, that rings a bell, yes.
3 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: Thank you. Thank you very much,
4 Ms McCarthy. If you will wait here, there will be other
5 questions for you.
6 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Mr Saunders?
7 MR SAUNDERS: Nothing thank you, my Lady.
8 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Mr Patterson?
9 Questions by MR PATTERSON
10 MR PATTERSON: Two short questions, if I may. You told the
11 Press Association in an interview that you thought that
12 it was about one hour that you were in that carriage.
13 Do you think that's about right?
14 A. Yes, I mean, as I say, because I was unconscious,
15 I don't know. It's a sort of guess.
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. It's hard to tell, obviously, it seems longer when
18 you're in pain as well. But I would say probably that
19 seems about right.
20 Q. Something like that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Secondly this: could we put on the screen, please, the
23 document INQ10283, but not page 10, page 11 [INQ10283-11], if we can,
24 which is the next page along.
25 Can we zoom in, please, on the area around seat 12?

69

1 You've described where you were when you came to
2 after about 15 or 20 minutes, by that pole in front of
3 seat 27. Is that right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You described hearing a female voice that you
6 particularly heard, which you said was to your right,
7 "Please don't let me die"?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. I think you said that it was round about the area of
10 seat 12, or maybe even further back, I think you said.
11 Is that right?
12 A. I think so. I mean, I can't be sure.
13 Q. So it's over your right-hand shoulder?
14 A. Yes, I think so.
15 Q. As we can see from this diagram, in and around that area
16 there were two bodies that were later found, the body of
17 Gamze Gunoral, just near where the word "pole" appears.
18 Do you see that?
19 A. Mm-hmm.
20 Q. Then next to her was the body of Behnaz Mozakka. It
21 sounds, from what you've described, as though that voice
22 was coming from, perhaps, somewhere in and around that
23 area.
24 A. Yes, possibly.
25 Q. Obviously you can't say for certain.

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1 A. No.
2 MR PATTERSON: Thank you very much.
3 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Any other questions for Ms McCarthy?
4 Those are all the questions we have for you,
5 Ms McCarthy. I'm sure that both Garri and Gill
6 appreciated, despite your own pain, your words of
7 comfort to them and the attempts that you made to make
8 sure that tourniquets were put in places where they had
9 to go to try and save lives, not just limbs, but to save
10 lives. So thank you for your comfort to them. Thank
11 you for helping me. I hope it hasn't been too traumatic
12 for you to relive the events.
13 I think you may have heard what I said to the
14 previous witness, Ms Hicks. If there's anything that
15 you can think of that you want me to pursue, because
16 you're better placed than most, please let my team know.
17 Thank you very much.
18 A. Thank you.
19 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: My Lady, that concludes the live
20 evidence for today. There are a number of statements
21 backing up to be read. I don't know if you'd like me to
22 read some of them now or whether you'd like to take
23 a break and read some of them?
24 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Five minutes.
25 (3.37 pm)

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1 (A short break)
2 (3.42 pm)
3 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Mr O'Connor?
4 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: My Lady, I'll read the statement of
5 Noreen Amin. It's dated 6 December 2005 and it starts
6 with a statement of truth in the conventional terms.
7 My Lady, I'll summarise the first part of her
8 statement, which describes her journey from her home in
9 East London towards, as she intended, Russell Square
10 Tube station on the morning of 7 July 2005. She worked
11 nearby Russell Square Tube station by Great Ormond
12 Street Hospital. Her route was by way of an overland
13 train in East London to Finsbury Park, as she describes
14 in her statement. At Finsbury Park, she changed on to
15 the Piccadilly Line train and went into the front
16 carriage of that train. She stood, rather than sat, and
17 stood towards the front of the carriage.
18 My Lady, I'll pick up reading the statement, for
19 those who have it in front of them, on page 4 at
20 King's Cross station. She said this.
21 Statement of MS NOREEN AMIN read
22 "The train doors then closed and the train itself
23 pulled out of King's Cross St Pancras station.
24 I happened to look at my watch at this time and saw it
25 read 08.55. Having only just left the station, a time

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1 of no more than 10 to 15 seconds, all the lights in the
2 carriage went out. The lights in the Underground trains
3 do sometimes flicker on and off, so this in itself was
4 not unusual. I think someone moaned in annoyance at
5 this and immediately I heard a loud bang. I would most
6 liken the bang I heard to that of a car exhaust
7 backfiring but a hell of a lot louder. I simultaneously
8 felt a rush of air and I found myself thrown to the
9 floor. Immediately following the bang, I saw a big
10 flash of orange fire about 10 to 15 feet away from me
11 towards the middle or rear of the carriage. This flash
12 momentarily lit up the carriage. I think the flash
13 looked like it came from the left-hand side of the
14 carriage. I am adamant that I heard a bang first and
15 saw the flash second. It was instantaneous.
16 "Suddenly, I found myself in the pitch black and it
17 felt like there were things on top of me like grit and
18 stone. The large bag that I had been holding was blown
19 out of my grasp. I couldn't breathe as the air was very
20 smoky and dusty. I did not know what had just happened
21 but thought it was some kind of train accident maybe,
22 maybe caused by a power surge or a power cut or
23 something similar.
24 "My eyes started to get used to the dark and though
25 the lights were all off in the train carriage, there was

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1 some light from what I can only assume were emergency
2 lights in the tunnel outside. I could not feel anything
3 other than the hard floor of the train beneath me and
4 that I had been sprayed with bits of grit or similar.
5 I could not smell anything in particular either, except
6 for a burning kind of smell that came as the smoke
7 drifted down the carriage.
8 "Then I started to hear people screaming. It was
9 a dreadful sound of people really screaming in pain and
10 agony. I could not see who was in the middle or rear
11 part of the carriage due to the amount of people packed
12 into the carriage and due to the darkness. I could see
13 some sparks towards the middle of the train in the roof
14 area of the carriage. I don't know what was causing
15 these sparks.
16 "I could not see the punk girl that I had previously
17 described and neither could I see Yvonne. The shouting
18 and screaming increased as people started to recover
19 themselves from what had happened."
20 She describes a female who had been standing next to
21 her crying, so she put her arms round her to comfort
22 her.
23 "Someone shouted out, 'Everyone just calm down, stop
24 screaming, start looking and let us know who needs
25 help'. Someone else suggested that people turn their

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1 mobile phones on as, when they switch on, they afford
2 a little bit of light so that we could see a little
3 better. A request was made by someone, 'Everyone that
4 can, stand up, so that we have more space so that we can
5 see others that are hurt'.
6 "I had been sitting on the floor for about a minute
7 at this point, tentative to move. The French woman
8 started calling for her mum so I reassured her. I still
9 could not see Yvonne. I found that I had a pain and
10 throbbing in my right arm. I don't know what caused
11 this, maybe the way I fell down. People started to
12 organise each other and the driver of the train then
13 opened his cab door that leads from the cab at the front
14 and into the first carriage. As he did this, there was
15 a rush of air and I found that I could breathe again as
16 air came into the carriage from the tunnel outside.
17 "The train driver said that he was waiting for the
18 all clear from his control room to check that the power
19 was off on the railway line before we could evacuate the
20 train. The driver was saying this to people nearest him
21 in the forward seating area and then his message was
22 passed down by word of mouth back to where I was in the
23 doorway area.
24 "There was about a five-minute wait before the
25 driver said that it was all clear for us to leave.

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1 I had remained with the French woman during this time
2 and comforted her. I could still hear screaming coming
3 from further down the carriage. I cannot liken the
4 screams to anything that I have heard before.
5 "A female in my part of the carriage was doing
6 a great job organising people. I would describe her as
7 being white, of slim build, with medium-length, blond
8 hair and aged between 25 to 30. She was wearing
9 a knee-length skirt with black tights on underneath and
10 was carrying a laptop computer-style bag and jumper in
11 one of her hands. This female was, along with a male
12 passenger, assisting an injured female who couldn't
13 stand and was injured in some way. Since, I have
14 referred to this woman in my own mind as 'the Samaritan'
15 because she was so good at organising everyone and
16 helping others.
17 "As my eyes got more used to the darkness, I could
18 see that all the glass in the carriage had shattered and
19 the glass partition by which I had been standing was
20 completely shattered also. I am a Muslim by religion
21 and I started praying. I could make out lots of
22 silhouettes of people in the carriage. The driver then
23 announced that he had been given the all clear and
24 passengers started to file out through the front of the
25 carriage, through the front driver's cab and out into

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1 the tunnel.
2 "It took a few minutes for the crowd in front of me
3 to move on, and then the French woman and I walked
4 through the front part of the carriage and into the
5 driver's cab. I made sure that I took both my bags with
6 me, having picked up the large bag that had been blown
7 out of my grasp earlier.
8 "The cab was quite small and had a seat on the left-
9 and right-hand side and the driver's controls. A centre
10 door directly in front of me was open. The French woman
11 went in front of me. Then I climbed down three
12 emergency steps and onto the track below. There was
13 some light in the tunnel and I could only see a few
14 paces' distance in front of me.
15 "There were probably about 20 to 30 people ahead of
16 me. As I stepped onto the track, I saw that the train
17 driver was standing to my left. He was directing people
18 and I would describe him as being possibly white with
19 thick dark hair and wearing an Underground uniform.
20 I think he may even have had a radio in his hands to
21 communicate with his Control Centre.
22 "Even in the dimness, I could see that people's
23 faces were blackened with soot and dust. I could see
24 some blood on some people also, as it is shiny and shows
25 up and is noticeable.

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1 "Having walked down the steps from the Tube train
2 I found myself in the tunnel. The tunnel was between 10
3 to 12 feet wide and about the same in height. There may
4 have been two sets of tracks side by side, I do not
5 recall. The train driver told us to start walking along
6 the tunnel away from the train and to head towards the
7 next station, which was Russell Square. We were also
8 told to walk exactly in the middle of the two tracks and
9 not to touch any of the rails just in case the power did
10 suddenly come back on.
11 "I remember two men running past me on my right-hand
12 side away from the train. I then remember seeing the
13 female Samaritan struggling to help the injured female
14 passenger that I had seen her with previously. Another
15 male passenger was still assisting the Samaritan.
16 A strong-looking, black male then came past me along the
17 track going away from the train. The Samaritan female
18 then asked him or directed this male to assist and take
19 over from her as she could not cope. The black male
20 duly assisted as requested.
21 "I kept my head down to watch where I was walking
22 and did not look forward or backwards towards the train.
23 I continued to walk for about 5 to 10 minutes. It
24 seemed like quite a distance. I walked over the gravel
25 on the floor keeping the tracks or rails on either side

78

1 of me. All the time, I was aware of other people around
2 me. Occasionally, someone would run past me. I recall
3 one male who was white and tall, about 6-foot with brown
4 hair and aged between 25 and 30. He was wearing a grey
5 suit. He ran up behind me and tried to get in front of
6 me, but I turned round and looked at him. I think my
7 look said enough, without words, that he should wait his
8 turn and not barge past me.
9 "I remember another black male running quickly past
10 me in the tunnel and on towards Russell Square.
11 Eventually, I could see light ahead at the end of the
12 tunnel and I followed a line of people along the track
13 and up the start of the platform at Russell Square.
14 There were two males standing on the platform, both of
15 whom were Underground workers, as they were wearing
16 distinctive fluorescent jackets. One of these men I had
17 seen several times before at that station in the past.
18 I would describe him as being a white European male and
19 he was wearing glasses. These two Underground workers
20 were grabbing hold of passengers and pulling them up
21 onto the platform. I was pulled up onto the platform.
22 "I looked at the time around this point and saw that
23 it was 09.13 am."
24 My Lady, just pausing there, that time and this
25 reference appears in our time line and it seemed to us

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1 that this was a further useful piece of evidence about
2 the timing of this passage of events.
3 Carrying on, my Lady, Ms Amin says:
4 "I remember thinking to myself, having looked at the
5 time, that I was late for work. I remember seeing some
6 other members of the public still stood on the platform
7 waiting for the train as normal. I do not think they
8 realised what had happened. They were told to leave the
9 platform and make their way up to ground level.
10 I followed the other passengers walking along the
11 platform towards the lifts at the station."
12 Breaking off there, my Lady, there is a lengthy
13 further section of the statement where Ms Amin describes
14 making her way to the Russell Square ticket office using
15 the lift. She describes telephoning her family and
16 eventually making her way to Great Ormond Street
17 Hospital where she met up with her father.
18 She also at that point refers to hearing news that
19 one of her work colleagues was missing. My Lady, I will
20 just read that passage. It's at page 12 of the
21 statement starting several lines down. She says:
22 "A colleague from work then arrived in the building
23 [that is Great Ormond Street Hospital]. She was very
24 upset. She had been on a train from King's Cross
25 St Pancras after my train. She said that she had walked

80

1 past the devastation at Tavistock Square and seen
2 horrific sites. She kept asking if anyone had seen
3 another colleague of ours called Behnaz. I do not
4 recall Behnaz's surname, but she was an Iranian woman.
5 I wondered if Behnaz was on the same train as me, as
6 I have seen her on my train in the mornings before. She
7 normally uses the middle carriages of the train.
8 I thought that whatever had happened on my train that
9 morning might have happened in the middle portion of the
10 train, so was concerned for Behnaz. I did not see her
11 on the morning of 7 July 2005."
12 She refers to her colleague and says that she
13 started to clam up and wasn't talking to anyone:
14 "So I went and stayed with her and hugged her for
15 a bit."
16 She says that the colleague said that "every time
17 she blinked, she could see stuff that upset her in her
18 mind". She goes on:
19 "Apparently, Behnaz's children were making regular
20 phone calls into the hospital to see if their mum had
21 arrived yet or been heard from. Behnaz was a biomedical
22 scientist, like myself, and I had worked closely with
23 her in the past."
24 As we now know, my Lady, Behnaz Mozakka had indeed
25 been a passenger on the same train as Ms Amin and,

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1 tragically, had been killed by the blast.
2 My Lady, I'll read the statement of
3 Gracia Aliligay Hormigos. I think you've been provided
4 with, separately, a copy of this statement.
5 It is dated 9 August 2005 and it starts with the
6 usual statement of truth. Again, my Lady, I can
7 summarise parts of this statement.
8 Ms Hormigos starts by stating that it was her
9 intention on the morning of 7 July to travel from her
10 home address to Fulham where she worked as
11 a housekeeper. She described her intended journey as
12 having left her house just after 8.00 and walked to
13 Phillip Lane, and caught a bus to Wood Green. She would
14 then have had a short walk to Turnpike Lane Tube station
15 and taken a westbound Piccadilly Line via King's Cross,
16 then changing at Earl's Court and taking a District Line
17 train to Fulham Broadway.
18 There's a paragraph where she's describing what she
19 was wearing that morning. She then refers to an exhibit
20 which was a plan of a Tube train which she describes
21 having drawn on to show her position on the Tube that
22 morning.
23 My Lady, if I may, I'll refer to that exhibit in
24 a moment.
25 She then goes on to describe making her way by bus

82

1 to Turnpike Lane station that morning, getting on to the
2 first carriage of a westbound Piccadilly Line train and
3 standing in the first carriage until the train reached
4 King's Cross.
5 Picking up two-thirds of the way down page 2 of her
6 statement, she then said this.
7 Statement of MS GRACIA ALILIGAY HORMIGOS read
8 "At King's Cross station, a lot of people got on and
9 got off. While the train was at the station, I was
10 still standing by the small door."
11 She refers to another passenger and then says:
12 "I just stood still for a while until I saw a seat
13 on the left-hand side and I decided to sit down on the
14 free seat."
15 My Lady, perhaps at this point I could ask to call
16 up on a split screen, first, [INQ9101-2] and also
17 [INQ10283-10]. If we can enlarge on the top, just that
18 part there. My Lady, you see there that the -- that
19 Ms Hormigos has marked where she's written "Gracia seat"
20 a seat where she says she was sitting, and if one
21 transfers that down to the plan with which we're
22 familiar, it is seat number 25 in the faint type and
23 number 92 in the bolder type.
24 Ms Hormigos' statement goes on:
25 "A few moments later, the train left King's Cross

83

1 station. Out of the blue, I heard a bang. It went dark
2 and I closed my eyes. The sensation I felt was making
3 my whole body shake violently as if I had been
4 electrocuted and my hands were shaking next to my head.
5 I thought what was going on and maybe this is it for
6 me."
7 She says she is not sure how long the sensation
8 lasted, but her ears were now ringing and she touched
9 them.
10 "When I settled down, I looked around me and I could
11 see a gentleman on the left-hand side. He was a black
12 man who appeared all right, until I saw his face when he
13 turned around and then I could see his forehead was
14 bleeding. I never spoke to him. On my right-hand side
15 I could see a young, white European lady who was crying
16 and another lady sit next to her who was a black lady."
17 My Lady, just pausing there, as I've said,
18 Ms Hormigos said she was sitting in seat number 92. She
19 refers -- you will recall Mr Akarele's evidence this
20 morning. He also said that he was sitting in seat
21 number 92, you will remember he corrected it. I think
22 it was -- he appears as number 100 in the plan.
23 Clearly, they can't both have been sitting there,
24 but it may be significant that Ms Hormigos remembers
25 seeing a black man immediately to her left, and it seems

84

1 that the description of an injury to his head also
2 tallies with the description -- with the evidence that
3 Mr Akarele gave and, equally, Ms Hormigos describes
4 a black lady sitting two seats to her right and it was
5 indeed seat 96 where Ms Yvette Newton said that she was
6 sitting, and you will recall that Ms Newton describes
7 sitting next to a so far unnamed other female passenger
8 which would also tally with Ms Hormigos' evidence of
9 there being a female passenger sitting in seat
10 number 94.
11 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: If I put 94 by Mr Akarele, that seems
12 more likely?
13 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: My Lady, I think it would have been
14 seat 90 for Mr Akarele. That would have been to
15 Ms Hormigos' left.
16 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Thank you.
17 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: Ms Hormigos continues:
18 "When the impact happened, I felt my head and it was
19 sticky, and I could smell smoke from the left-hand side
20 and I started inhaling smoke and my heart was thumping.
21 I could also see parts of the train hanging from the
22 ceiling and I had pieces of glass and metal in my hair
23 and on me. I never thought of looking down at first or
24 what was happening in front of me.
25 "A few minutes later, a light came on from the

85

1 left-hand side of the tunnel. It gave me light where
2 I was seated and I looked down. I saw this man who was
3 slumped in front of me with his head leaning on another
4 passenger and he looked like an Indian guy and
5 I realised his right leg was on my left knee. I felt
6 like my leg was being pushed back on the seat and was
7 trapped. I looked and thought 'My God', part of his leg
8 was gone. I could a piece of bone sticking out of his
9 leg that was sharp and I could see the colour of the
10 bone and I actually touched it. I did not know what to
11 do.
12 "I saw another white man on top of him with blood on
13 his face who was not moving. I started to say to
14 myself, 'I have to feel my leg'. I then said out loud
15 'My leg, my leg'. At the same time, I saw a white lady
16 in the middle of the carriage shouting 'Help, help,
17 I don't want to die'. I also heard another guy shouting
18 'Chris, Chris, are you all right?' but nobody answered
19 him.
20 "I then thought 'I have to free my legs as I might
21 have injured them'. I started to move my right leg and
22 slipped off my trainers as they were in the way. I said
23 to the guy, 'I'm sorry, but I have to push a little bit,
24 I have to free my leg' I told him to 'Be awake, be
25 awake', as he was conscious, but the guy on top of him

86

1 was not moving, so I gently moved his leg off me and
2 lifted my legs slowly as well because it was very
3 difficult for me to take it out right away, so
4 I slightly moved back and climbed on to the ledge of the
5 seat.
6 "I stayed in this position for I don't know how long
7 until the rescue came and I put my bag on the left-hand
8 side. My legs were now free from being trapped.
9 I noticed the lady on my right-hand side operating her
10 mobile phone and somebody was shouting, 'Has anybody got
11 the time?' and this lady said 'It's 9.20'. The white
12 guy on the floor started to move and this young girl
13 helped him by holding his back.
14 "So we were still there and no rescue had come, but
15 earlier on, I am not sure if it was the driver who came
16 out of the front of the train saying, 'Calm down, calm
17 down, the rescue and help will come soon'. I am not
18 sure how long I was on the seat ledge for until the
19 rescue came. I am not sure if they were Underground
20 staff, but two men came with torches and they started
21 pointing the torches towards people on the floor and one
22 of the men said 'Paramedics will come for those badly
23 injured, stay where you are. Those who can manage to
24 walk and get out of the compartment, start moving'.
25 "The lady on my right-hand side walked out, but the

87

1 black lady was still sitting down so I asked her if she
2 was all right. She said, 'Yes, I'm all right'. She
3 said, 'What about you?' I said, 'Could you hold my hand
4 and wait with me while I leave the compartment with
5 you?'. She said, 'Of course'. Slowly I stood up
6 holding her hand and I climbed the seat, but before
7 I left I saw the Underground staff pointing the torch
8 inside the compartment and I saw this man sitting in
9 front of me who had rushed in at King's Cross station.
10 He was slumped maybe on top of another body but he was
11 naked from the waist upwards and obviously dead.
12 I could also see our carriage was badly damaged and
13 other carriages were okay so I covered my face and
14 slowly, slowly, holding hands, we managed to jump out of
15 our carriage and onto the track.
16 "The lady told me her name as we were walking,
17 holding hands, but I can't remember it, and our train
18 was on our right-hand side and the tunnel was on the
19 left-hand as side as we walked to King's Cross.
20 "Before I jumped onto the track, I saw spots of
21 blood in the next compartment. We were guided by one of
22 the staff onto the track and then walked to King's Cross
23 station. I am not sure how far this was. We joined
24 other people in the queue and all the other carriages
25 were now empty. Then we were guided to the platform and

88

1 the staff were lifting us up onto the platform. Then we
2 were guided to the escalator up to the lobby."
3 My Lady, the remainder of this statement describes
4 this witness's treatment at King's Cross and
5 subsequently being taken to the Royal London Hospital.
6 My Lady, before I move on, may I just explain
7 briefly, in case it isn't fully appreciated, exactly why
8 Ms Hormigos' statement has been considered to be of
9 particular importance?
10 My Lady, I've already mentioned Yvette Newton and
11 you will recall the evidence yesterday of Ms Newton,
12 also Mr Mitchell and Julie Gruen, about Philip Beer, and
13 all of their evidence was to the effect that he was on
14 the floor for the time that they remembered.
15 The paramedic who first attended to Philip Beer --
16 and certainly, the evidence is likely to be that he
17 arrived after Yvette Newton and Gracia Hormingos had
18 left the carriage -- this paramedic was called
19 Mr Taylor, Paul Taylor, and we will hear his evidence
20 next week.
21 We expect his evidence to be that he found
22 Philip Beer, not still on the floor, but in fact on
23 a seat, and the seat that he describes finding Mr Beer
24 on was seat number 92, which was the seat that
25 Gracia Hormingos has described sitting on until she left

89

1 it. So that is perhaps the particular importance of
2 this statement, my Lady.
3 My Lady, I'll read the statement, if I may, of
4 Vicki Hillyard, which is in the bundle, dated
5 15 March 2006.
6 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Just before you do, Mr Barnes is
7 going to be called, is that right? Is he Monday?
8 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: My Lady, I believe Mr Barnes' evidence
9 is now to be read. I see Mr Suter looking at me
10 meaningfully.
11 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: I knew there was one that had
12 changed.
13 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: His evidence is to be read, my Lady,
14 and we will read it on Monday, if that is appropriate.
15 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Certainly, thank you.
16 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: My Lady, Vicki Hillyard, her statement
17 dated 15 March 2006, a police statement which starts
18 with the usual statement of truth.
19 After the first paragraph of her statement she
20 describes how, at 08.15, on the morning of 7 July, she
21 left her flat and walked to Finsbury Park station. She
22 describes that she was travelling to her offices in
23 Chancery Lane in Holborn. She needed to take a train on
24 the southbound Piccadilly Line service. She descended
25 to the platform level of the station and turned left on

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1 to the southbound platform, walking towards what would
2 be the front of the train, as this is near to the way
3 out at Holborn station. She states that that was her
4 normal daily routine.
5 Reading on:
6 Statement of MS VICKI HILLYARD read
7 "The platform gradually became crowded with
8 commuters, as there were delays on the Piccadilly Line
9 that morning. Some commuters I believe took the
10 Victoria Line as an alternative route into London.
11 However, I was happy to wait for a Piccadilly Line
12 service. I waited for about five minutes. Eventually,
13 a train entered the platform area from my right and
14 stopped. The train was already packed with passengers,
15 however. I boarded the first carriage using the double
16 doors referenced 'D6' on the drawing."
17 My Lady, may I ask at this point to call up document
18 [INQ9109-2]? This is the exhibit to Ms Hillyard's
19 statement. She has stated that she entered through
20 doors D6. I'll carry on reading:
21 "I managed to squeeze into a position to the left of
22 these doors adjacent to the half seats and draft screen.
23 Although I regularly travel at this time, I did not
24 recognise any of the passengers on this part of the
25 carriage. The journey from Finsbury Park to

91

1 King's Cross was very uneventful. I do not recollect
2 any delays, although the train may have spent longer at
3 each station than usual as people tried to get off and
4 on. It was very hot on the carriage, probably owing to
5 the number of passengers and temperatures being
6 experienced in the capital at this time. The train
7 eventually arrived at King's Cross. I could not see the
8 platform owing to my position and number of passengers
9 on the carriage. I do not know how many passengers got
10 off or on from my part of the carriage using double
11 doors D5 but I was able to squeeze through other
12 standing passengers to a vacant seat in the centre of
13 the carriage. I believe it was seat number 29."
14 We can see that she's marked that on her plan.
15 "I recollect that, to my right, in seat 28, was
16 a female passenger in her 30s and, to my left, in seat
17 30, another female passenger in her 30s or 40s.
18 "The carriage started to fill up. Passengers were
19 moving down the central aisle immediately in front of me
20 and I could not see the passengers sitting opposite in
21 seats 8 to 12. I started to try to read my newspaper
22 when I heard a female voice shout out, 'Can you move
23 down?'. A male voice shouted back 'What do you want us
24 to do? Stand on the ceiling?' or similar.
25 "The doors to the carriage closed and the train

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1 pulled out of King's Cross station, next stop
2 Russell Square.
3 "Just a few seconds later, there was a loud crashing
4 noise all around me. The lights went out. There was
5 dust everywhere. There was a short period of stillness.
6 Although the lights had gone out, I could still make out
7 vague outlines of the carriage and passengers. It was
8 chaos. There were poles twisted, windows had been blown
9 out or were broken. Many passengers had fallen over.
10 I did not know what had really happened but knew it was
11 serious. I thought that there had been an explosion
12 further down the train in another carriage. I then
13 started to hear passengers in my carriage screaming,
14 groaning.
15 "I believe that I spoke to the female passenger in
16 seat 30 to see if she was okay. A male passenger was
17 trying to rest between myself and the lady in seat 28,
18 a female passenger who had been standing in front of me
19 had fallen to the floor against my legs and had
20 sustained a black injury in the blast. I think she was
21 an Indian lady about 30 years of age, average build with
22 long dark hair, wearing a pink/white 'rugby' style
23 shirt. She had lost her shoes. I remember allowing
24 this lady to sit on my knees so as to give her some
25 support and comfort for her back.

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1 "At some point I looked to my right to where I had
2 been standing a short while earlier. I do not wish to
3 dwell on what I saw: carnage. There was main structural
4 damage to this part of the carriage. There were
5 passengers lying around on the floor or slumped in their
6 seats in this area. I just knew that there were a lot
7 of injured, possibly dead, passengers in that area but
8 tried not to look. It was difficult to see.
9 "I remember seeing a businessman in a suit slumped
10 to the floor between seats 12 and 27. He appeared to be
11 seriously injured, groaning.
12 "From the back of the carriage, I could hear a woman
13 screaming hysterically, on and on. A male voice shouted
14 out, 'I've lost my legs'. Another male voice shouted
15 out 'Well, I've lost mine too', as if this male was
16 trying to make light of the predicament that we were in.
17 "I heard other passengers trying to quieten the
18 woman who was still screaming hysterically. I do not
19 know what injuries she had sustained or what condition
20 she was in. The air in the carriage was very thick,
21 full of smoke, soot and dust. It was very hot and hard
22 to breathe. There was a very strange smell, a burning
23 smell, something that I'd never smelt before. I now
24 realise that this was the smell of burning/burnt human
25 flesh.

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1 "Immediately after the explosion, I was thinking to
2 myself, 'Am I alive? If so, will I get out of the
3 carriage alive?', although I thought I might suffocate
4 owing to the conditions within the carriage and the
5 tunnel. I tried to keep myself occupied to keep
6 practical. I found a book and started to fan myself and
7 other passengers near me to try to get some air
8 movement.
9 "We sat there for several minutes wondering if we
10 were going to be rescued. I could still hear the
11 groaning and screaming of passengers in the carriage.
12 Eventually we heard, via Chinese whispers from the front
13 of the carriage, that if we could walk, then we could
14 get out of the train and walk along the tracks to
15 Russell Square station.
16 "After a while I got up. The floor was very
17 slippery. I helped the Indian lady with no shoes. We
18 had to walk carefully along the aisle, stepping round or
19 over passengers who were either sitting or prostrate on
20 the floor, possibly injured or dead.
21 "We then exited carriage number 1 through the
22 driver's cab and climbed down onto the trackway. There
23 was just sufficient lighting in the tunnel to see where
24 we were going. I had to walk very slowly as the Indian
25 lady found it quite hard going with her back injury and

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1 no shoes.
2 "After a few minutes, we managed to walk to
3 Russell Square station where some London Underground
4 staff helped us up onto the platform. At this stage,
5 there were no emergency services, Fire Brigade, police,
6 Ambulance Service, in attendance.
7 "As we got onto the platform, I saw that, apart from
8 the Indian lady and myself, there was only one other
9 passenger present, which was a male passenger with his
10 clothes all ripped.
11 "I went over to a vending machine and got two
12 bottles of water. I gave one to this male passenger and
13 I think I offered to get one for the Indian lady, but
14 she declined. So I just got another for myself.
15 "The three of us then made our way up some stairs
16 where we were then helped by a man from London Transport
17 getting into a lift and being taken up further stairs to
18 the main ticket hall concourse area.
19 "Once in the ticket area, I saw other passengers
20 whom I assumed had got off the train by the same means
21 that I had taken, sitting around looking dazed, shocked
22 and covered head to toe in soot.
23 "I would describe these passengers as walking
24 wounded. Some had obvious injuries but none looked
25 life-threatening. It was only at this time that

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1 I realised that I, too, was covered head to toe in soot.
2 My hair was a mess. I was bloodied and discovered that
3 I had a gash on my left hand, gash on my head, badly
4 bruised legs and my hearing was very poor."
5 My Lady, in the remainder of her witness statement,
6 Ms Hillyard describes contacting her family by telephone
7 and then making her way home. She also gives further
8 detail of her injuries and the treatment that she
9 received.
10 My Lady, I see the time. There are other statements
11 to read, but --
12 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: I'm in your hands, Mr O'Connor. You
13 have a better idea of which witnesses you wish to get
14 through today.
15 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: My Lady, perhaps I will finish by
16 reading two short witness statements.
17 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Of course.
18 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: We have heard their names mentioned
19 already. Julie Rowlinson and Mr Simmons, a boyfriend
20 and girlfriend who had something to do with Mr Boyce and
21 Mr Glennerster. My Lady, I'll take Julie Rowlinson
22 first. She is Julie Ann Rowlinson. Her statement is
23 dated 13 July 2005 and, as ever, it starts with the
24 statement of truth.
25 She says as follows:

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1 Statement of MS JULIE ANN ROWLINSON read
2 "This is my account of when I was travelling on the
3 Underground's Piccadilly Line to work when a bomb
4 exploded. On Thursday, 7 July 2005, I left for work at
5 around 8.30 about with my fiance, Travers. We were
6 heading for the Holborn area, as Travers works there and
7 it was my second day of a new job in Lime Street. We
8 arrived at Arsenal Tube station at approximately 8.40.
9 There were delays on the Underground which made it very
10 busy. Travers said we should walk to Drayton Park and
11 catch a train to Moorgate, but when we got to the top of
12 the stairs, I said I could not be bothered, as it was
13 a long walk from Moorgate, so we went back down the
14 stairs and into the Underground.
15 "We normally get in the middle carriage, as it makes
16 it quicker when we get out, but it was too busy so we
17 got on the first carriage.
18 "We got on the carriage at the second set of doors
19 down from the driver. The carriage emptied out a bit at
20 King's Cross, so we moved further in and we were
21 standing near the rail. I remember a girl shouting,
22 'Can you move down?' and this black guy then said,
23 'Could some of you sit on the roof?'. Then I remember
24 standing there one minute and the next thing I felt like
25 I was crouched down holding on to the pole. It felt

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1 like something was running through me, like an electric
2 shock.
3 "I suffered a brain haemorrhage two years ago and
4 I thought it was happening again only more intense than
5 before. I felt paralysed. I could not move, and
6 I could not see anything, although I felt like I had my
7 eyes open. I thought I was going to die and all I could
8 think about was my son.
9 "Then I could hear Travers calling me and the
10 emergency lights coming on. There was glass and dust
11 everywhere and a really horrid smell. I saw Travers and
12 he said, 'I thought I'd lost you'. I remember seeing
13 this black guy covered in blood saying, 'I don't want to
14 die, it's not my time to die'. We must have been
15 chucked towards the seats and I noticed that the train
16 didn't seem as packed as before.
17 "People were starting to get off the train and
18 Travers tried to get me up so we could get off the
19 train, but I could not get up because there was someone
20 on my legs. Travers took her arms to try to move her,
21 but he said, 'I think she's dead'. There was a young
22 girl and guy sitting on the chairs. The guy got up and
23 moved and the girl tried to pull me up, but I couldn't
24 get up. My leg was hurting me so I put my hand down to
25 try to push myself up, but my hand went into some flesh.

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1 I then said to the girl, 'Pull me, just pull me'. So
2 the girl pulled me up, which I think is how I broke my
3 leg.
4 "I remember this man was screaming and his leg was
5 severed off. His name was Paul and he was an insurance
6 broker from Holborn."
7 A reference, my Lady, to Paul Glennerster.
8 "He asked Travers to help him off the train, so he
9 leant on Travers on one side and me on the other, but
10 I was too weak to support him so another man and Travers
11 helped him off the train.
12 "We got off the train and walked to the front of the
13 train with the train driver. The driver then said,
14 'Avoid the lines as they are still live'. I didn't feel
15 I had the energy to avoid the lines, so I sat on the
16 steps of the train. Paul, the man with the severed leg,
17 sat against the side and Travers kept talking to him.
18 I then noticed that there was loads of devastation and
19 decided I did not want to stay down there so we walked
20 out.
21 "I did not see anyone or anything I thought to be
22 suspicious. The train was so packed you won't have
23 noticed anyone unless they were right next to you."
24 She goes on to describe the clothes she was wearing
25 that day.

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1 My Lady, I move on to Travers Simmons. We've heard
2 him referred to in the statement of Julie Rowlinson that
3 I just read as, at that stage, her fiance. They are
4 now, I believe, married and Julie Rowlinson is now known
5 as Julie Simmons.
6 Mr Simmons' statement was dated 10 July 2005, again
7 it was supported by a statement of truth, and it reads
8 as follows:
9 Statement of MR TRAVERS SIMMONS read
10 "On Thursday, 7 July 2005, I left my home address
11 with my girlfriend, Julie Rowlinson, to go to work just
12 before 8.30 in the morning. I had a meeting at 9.00 at
13 the NatWest Bank in St Paul's. We both walked to
14 Arsenal Tube station on the Piccadilly Line which was
15 two minutes away. I anticipate we got to the station at
16 8.30. The information boards were showing some delays
17 and the platform was crowded. The next train was
18 showing five minutes away.
19 "We went back up the stairs to get a Drayton Park
20 train to Moorgate but changed our minds again and went
21 back onto the platform at Arsenal. I decided that
22 I would need to get on the first train. I looked at my
23 watch. It was 8.40. The platform was still crowded.
24 No one stood out, just general commuters. I normally
25 get on the second carriage but, due to the crowds, I got

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1 on the front carriage with my girlfriend, Julie.
2 "We got on the second set of double doors from the
3 front. The train was very packed and we squeezed on by
4 the doors."
5 Mr Simmons describes what he was wearing that day
6 and then states that he was a white, slim male about
7 5' 8" in height with short brown hair. Reading on:
8 "I was not looking around at that stage. I was like
9 everyone else, just wanting to get off this crowded
10 train. When we got to King's Cross on the westbound
11 train, I stepped off the train to let people get off.
12 I then got back on and managed to move a bit further
13 into the carriage to the start of the seats. Julie was
14 in front of me. We were both standing. I do not
15 remember noticing any bags or anything on the floor
16 around me. The carriage was still packed. I remember
17 hearing a lady's voice shout, 'Can you move down?'.
18 I didn't see her. A tall black guy replied, 'We can get
19 on the roof, if you like'. Everyone laughed. He was
20 aged mid-30s, cleanshaven, light-skinned. I could not
21 describe his clothing as he was surrounded by other
22 people. I could not see if he was carrying anything.
23 "The train left King's Cross at about 8.45 am. We
24 had just left the station when, suddenly, everything
25 went black. I heard a loud bang. I was crouched down.

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1 There was like a current or something passing through my
2 body, lifting up my arms. I thought it was just me and
3 was not sure of what was happening. The sensation
4 passed after a few seconds. I thought I was paralysed.
5 I came to, I was still crouched down. I noticed two
6 people in front of me sitting motionless on seats, both
7 were completely covered in black soot or something.
8 I think they were both women.
9 "I forgot to mention that I wear glasses. My vision
10 is minus 3.25 without them and they had been blown off.
11 I could not make out detail, only shapes. At this
12 point, the carriage was full of an acrid smoke or dust.
13 I realised that I had to get off the train. Julie
14 wasn't next to me at that point. I had some pain in my
15 left leg and chest. My trousers were in shreds. My bag
16 had been blown off me. I was grabbing around and lifted
17 someone's arm, which was lifeless. I was calling
18 Julie's name. She answered me. I was still crouched
19 down. I used the woman sitting motionless in front of
20 me to lift myself up. Julie was helped into a seat by
21 another female passenger. I moved over to her. I was
22 grabbing the bar above the seats with both hands. I was
23 feeling sick but not fully aware of my injuries. I was
24 taking deep breaths and was struggling to breathe.
25 "I remember a black guy, quite large, heavy build,

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1 panicking. He was trying to push past people, trying to
2 get off the train. He was wearing a dark-blue
3 tracksuit-type top. He had short, shaved hair.
4 Everyone else was standing around looking shocked.
5 I was about to sit down next to Julie. I heard another
6 guy screaming about his leg. He had to sit down. His
7 leg was hanging by a thread below his knee. He sat down
8 next to Julie. People started to get off the train via
9 the driver's carriage.
10 "The driver was telling us that the rail may be live
11 and not to touch it. We got the guy with the injured
12 leg down on the steps in front of the train. Julie was
13 not with me and I went back to get her. I helped her
14 down the steps. I think she had a broken leg. I had
15 noticed bodies on the floor and I saw a window on the
16 floor. The front of the train did not seem damaged and
17 was intact.
18 "In the tunnel, I was talking to the guy with the
19 injured leg. He was saying, 'Help me, talk to me, I'm
20 going to bleed to death'. He said his name was Paul.
21 He was late 20s, early 30s and worked in insurance. He
22 said he was just starting back in football training.
23 Julie was complaining she couldn't breathe and I was
24 helping her. I think about five or six people got off
25 the train via the driver's carriage."

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1 He then refers to his bag and its contents. He goes
2 on:
3 "My girlfriend left her jacket and bag on the train.
4 I removed the remains of her trousers to check her
5 injuries. She said she could not walk, so we sat on the
6 steps waiting for help. I also had trouble breathing.
7 The duty manager from Russell Square was the first
8 person to get to us."
9 My Lady, that appears to be a reference to Mr Boyce.
10 "He told us help was coming. It seemed some 15 to
11 20 minutes had passed. I saw some lights and people
12 approaching from the rear of the train. I believe they
13 were dealing with people still on the train. We started
14 walking the 500 metres towards Russell Square. We were
15 very slow, due to our injuries. Someone was helping the
16 guy with the injured leg and we met police and
17 paramedics. A police officer with a torch helped us up
18 to the platform. Paramedics were carrying people on
19 their backs. The power was off and we did not fancy
20 walking 300 or so steps, so we waited and sat on the
21 platform. I was given some water. Julie was not
22 allowed to drink because of her chest. I saw
23 a plainclothes policeman in surgical gloves. I asked
24 him what had happened. He said he did not know. I was
25 still not aware that it was a bomb or explosion.

105

1 "The power came back on and we got into a lift to
2 the station concourse. I saw a nurse. I had severe
3 injuries to my left leg, which was cut, burnt and
4 bruised. I had superficial cuts to my right leg and
5 forehead and a broken rib to my top right side of my
6 chest. Someone said we had to evacuate the station.
7 There were a lot of people around with blankets. Julie
8 was placed on a stretcher. A policewoman also gave me
9 first aid and raised my legs. I also saw some doctors
10 and nurses and even a vicar."
11 My Lady, he then goes on to describe how he and
12 Julie were taken to hospital.
13 My Lady, there are one or two other statements to
14 read but I suggest we take those on Monday.
15 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Certainly. Tomorrow I am considering
16 potentially closed material for the purposes of PII, not
17 for evidential purposes.
18 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: Yes.
19 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: What time do you suggest I sit?
20 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: My Lady, if it's convenient, it may be
21 of assistance if you were to sit at 10.30 tomorrow
22 morning.
23 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: Right. Then I think, 2.00 on Friday,
24 there is arranged, at present, an open hearing, as it
25 were, to consider any directions and to analyse how far

106

1 we've got.
2 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: Yes, that's right, my Lady.
3 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: That need only affect those
4 immediately affected by this particular aspect.
5 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: That's right, my Lady. It seemed to us
6 sensible to have a short hearing at that time, both to
7 bring the open representatives up to speed with the
8 progress that has been made with the disclosure
9 exercise, but also, more importantly, to canvass their
10 view about directions.
11 No doubt during the closed hearing you will have
12 formed certain views about the directions that need to
13 be made, but with some of them you may be assisted by
14 submissions from some of the open advocates. That
15 really was the primary purpose of the hearing on Friday
16 afternoon.
17 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: So as far as any of the families are
18 concerned, we will not be returning to any matters of
19 substance or significance, as far as they are concerned,
20 until Monday morning.
21 MR ANDREW O'CONNOR: That's the position, my Lady.
22 LADY JUSTICE HALLETT: On Monday, I shall be sitting at
23 10.00, subject to snow. Let's hope it doesn't affect
24 us.
25 Are there any other matters that we can deal with

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1 today?
2 Thank you all very much. 10.30 tomorrow.
3 (4.30 pm)
4 (The inquests adjourned until 10.30 am the following day)
5
6

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