Transcript of the Hearing 8 January 2014

 

           1                                      Wednesday, 8 January 2014

           2   (10.30 am)

           3   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  We'll ask for the cameras then to be

           4       turned off, please, and for the jury to come into court.

           5                  (In the presence of the jury)

           6   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Thank you very much, members of the

           7       jury.  We'll just go through the usual procedures then

           8       of asking the jury bailiffs to be sworn.

           9                  (The jury bailiffs were sworn)

          10   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Thank you very much indeed.  Right,

          11       then, members of the jury, if you would like to leave us

          12       then and carry on with the work, thank you.

          13      (The jury retired to continue their deliberations at

          14                            10.34 am)

   

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          16   (10.55 am)

          17                      (The court adjourned)

          18   (3.53 pm)

          19   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  I will ask that the cameras be

          20       turned off for a moment whilst the jury come into court,

          21       please.

          22            (The jury returned into court at 3.53 pm)

          23   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Thank you, the cameras can come back

          24       on.

          25           I just want to say this firstly if I may, please.


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           1       As Coroner in this case, having been appointed almost

           2       exactly a year ago now, I have an obligation to consider

           3       whether to make a report pursuant to the provisions of

           4       schedule 5 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009.  This

           5       requires me to make a report about anything revealed in

           6       the course of the investigation and indeed during the

           7       course of the Inquest hearing which gives rise to

           8       a concern that circumstances creating a risk of other

           9       deaths will occur or indeed continue to exist.

          10           There have been a number of issues and areas of

          11       evidence which may deserve further examination or

          12       question.  I do not want to be part of a justice system

          13       which in a case of this nature simply closes the file

          14       and moves on to the next case.  Indeed, I am confident

          15       that this is not the case and we can be reassured that

          16       the Inquest procedure, as openly as legislation allows,

          17       does investigate, examine and question the facts

          18       surrounding regrettable, unexplained and avoidable

          19       deaths.

          20           Thus I want a short period to consider matters on

          21       whether to make recommendations and any other statements

          22       as permitted by law.  I have invited any interested

          23       parties to submit suggestions in writing to me by the

          24       end of this month and, in due course, if I do decide to

          25       make any recommendations or make any other ancillary


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           1       statements these will be published on the website as

           2       appropriate.

           3           Indeed, I will be available for a short hearing

           4       tomorrow morning at 10.30 for any other ancillary

           5       matters, but no party feels bound to attend if they do

           6       not wish to do so tomorrow morning.

           7           Before we move on to the procedure in which I ask

           8       the foreman of the jury to deliver the findings and

           9       conclusions that have been reached I want to express

          10       publicly and openly a few matters.

          11           Firstly, I want to express sincere gratitude both on

          12       my behalf and on behalf of the public as a whole for the

          13       hard work that you, the jury, have put in.  I speak for

          14       all when I say that we have all been impressed by the

          15       way you have performed your duty as jurors really over

          16       a long period since September of last year now.

          17           I also, secondly, want to inform you that I will

          18       arrange for you to be sent letters from the Coroner's

          19       offices which will excuse you from future jury service

          20       for life, should you want to use that letter.  You do

          21       not have to but it is a mark of the fact that you have

          22       performed such extensive jury service and in such

          23       a difficult case that society now deems that you have

          24       more than done your duty in this regard.

          25           Thirdly, please remember that your deliberations as


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           1       a jury must remain confidential at all times, so please

           2       do not talk about them with anyone.  Of course you can

           3       listen and watch any reporting of the case as happens

           4       but please be very careful in discussing much about your

           5       work as jurors in this case.

           6           So really my great thanks for all your work.  I will

           7       miss you, indeed, having been with you twice now on

           8       different views that we have had and spoken with you

           9       during the course of the case.  I want to have

          10       a personal thank you for all that you have done.

          11                         Jury conclusions

          12   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  So now let's turn to the final

          13       business of the court today and that is to receive your

          14       findings and answers and conclusions, so I ask your jury

          15       foreman to remain seated, as she is there at the front

          16       of the jury, and I will go through the questions and ask

          17       her to give the answers as has been recorded on Form 2

          18       of the record.

          19           So the first question I ask is, firstly, the name of

          20       the deceased?

          21   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  Mark Wayne Duggan.

          22   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  The medical cause of death?

          23   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  Gun shot wound to the chest.

          24   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  In answering how, when and where,

          25       the first question is: when did that happen?


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           1   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  4 August 2011 at 18.41.

           2   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Thank you.  Where did that happen?

           3   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  Ferry Lane.

           4   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Before we go to the questions,

           5       I will ask you to go to the final section, which is

           6       the particulars that are required by the Births and

           7       Deaths Registration Act to be registered, concerning the

           8       death, which repeats much of what we have just said.

           9           Firstly, what have you recorded as the date and

          10       place of death?

          11   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  Ferry Lane, 4 August 2011.

          12   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  The name and surname of the

          13       deceased?

          14   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  Mark Wayne Duggan.

          15   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  The sex of the deceased?

          16   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  Male.

          17   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  The date and place of his birth?

          18   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  The 15th of the 9th, 1981.

          19   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  The occupation and usual address

          20       what is his occupation and usual address?

          21   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  Clothes retailer, 13 Rowland Hill

          22       Avenue, London N17 7LU.

          23   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Thank you.  Now we'll come back to

          24       the front of the form and deal with the answers to the

          25       questions.


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           1           Question 1, I asked you this:

           2           "In the period between midday 3 August and when

           3       state amber was called at 6.00 pm on 4 August 2011, did

           4       the MPS and SOCA do the best they realistically could

           5       have done to gather and react to intelligence about the

           6       possibility of Mr Duggan collecting a gun from

           7       Mr Hutchinson-Foster?"

           8           You are asked whether you should answer yes, no or

           9       not enough information.  What is your answer to that

          10       question?

          11   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  Unanimous, no.

          12   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  So having said no, and if no what

          13       more could have been expected of them; what is your

          14       answer to that?

          15   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  With respect to the trident

          16       investigation there was not enough current intelligence

          17       and information on Kevin Hutchinson-Foster.  There was

          18       no emphasis or exhaustion --

          19   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  "Emphasis on exhausting", is it?

          20   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  -- exhausting, sorry -- on all

          21       avenues which could have affected reaction and

          22       subsequent action.  Insufficient information regarding

          23       any relevant intelligence gathering or actively --

          24       activity on Mark Duggan or Kevin Hutchinson-Foster

          25       between 9.00 pm on 3 August after surveillance lost them


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           1       until new intelligence came in from A10 on 4 August.

           2   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Thank you very much.  I turn then to

           3       question number 2:

           4           "Was the stop conducted in a location and in a way

           5       which minimised to if greatest extent possible recourse

           6       to lethal force?"

           7   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  Unanimous, yes.

           8   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Question number 3:

           9           "Did Mr Duggan have the gun with him in the taxi

          10       immediately before the stop?"

          11   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  Unanimous, yes.

          12   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Question number 4:

          13           "How did the gun get to the grass area where it was

          14       later found?"

          15   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  The jury, in a majority of 9 to 1,

          16       concluded that Mark Duggan threw the firearm on to the

          17       grass.

          18   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Yes.

          19   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  Of the 9, 8 have concluded that it

          20       is more likely than not that Mark Duggan threw the

          21       firearm as soon as the minicab came to a stop and prior

          22       to any officers being on the pavement.  One concluded

          23       that Mark Duggan threw the firearm while on the pavement

          24       and in the process of evading the police.  One juror was

          25       not convinced of any supposition that Mark Duggan threw


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           1       the firearm from the vehicle or from the pavement

           2       because no witnesses gave evidence to this effect.

           3   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Right.  Question number 5.  The

           4       question is:

           5           "When Mr Duggan received the fatal shot did he have

           6       the gun in his hand?"

           7           There were three answers given to you.  The first

           8       answer that you were asked whether to tick the box or

           9       not was:

          10           "We are sure that he did not have a gun in his

          11       hand."

          12           How many if any ticked that box?

          13   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  The majority of 8 to 1 said --

          14   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  8 to?

          15   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  8 to 2.

          16   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Thank you.  So a majority of 8 to 2

          17       came to the conclusion:

          18           "We are sure that he did not have a gun in his hand

          19       when he received the fatal shot."

          20           Is that right?

          21   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  That is correct, yes.

          22   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Thank you.  The next box underneath

          23       that is:

          24           "We believe it is more likely than not that he did

          25       have a gun in his hand."


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           1           Did any person tick that box?

           2   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  One juror.

           3   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  The third box:

           4           "We believe that it is more likely than not that he

           5       did not have a gun in his hand."

           6           Did any juror tick that box?

           7   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  One juror.

           8   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  So by a majority of 8 to 2 on that

           9       first part of question 5, the conclusion of the jury

          10       was:

          11           "We were sure he did not have a gun in his hand."

          12   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  That is correct, yes.

          13   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  I then pass then to the final

          14       conclusion which concerns whether you concluded as

          15       a result of the findings and the directions that I gave

          16       you as to whether the death was unlawful killing, open

          17       conclusion or lawful killing.

          18           What was your majority finding on that?

          19   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  The majority of 8 to 2, lawful

          20       killing; 2, open conclusion.

          21   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Thank you very much.  Does that

          22       conclude the findings of this jury?

          23   THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY:  That is correct, yes.

          24   THE ASSISTANT CORONER:  Thank you very much indeed.  In

          25       which case, I shall now ask you to leave court, thank


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           1       you very much.

           2           Could everyone in court please remain quiet while

           3       the jury leave.

           4           If you would like to leave then, thank you very

           5       much.

           6                    (The jury was discharged)

           7   (4.05 pm)

           8       (The Inquest adjourned until 10.30 am on Thursday,

           9                         9 January 2014)

          10
               Discussion re jury deliberations  ....................1
          11
               Jury conclusions ....................................21
          12

          
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