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Page 1


1 Monday, 26th June 2000

2 (9.34 am)

3 LORD SAVILLE: Yes, Mr Clarke.

4 MR CLARKE: We were looking last week at

5 various bodies of evidence that dealt with firing from

6 the walls -- or what was thought to be firing from the

7 walls -- at various places.

8 Continuing in that sequence there is also

9 evidence of bullets from the walls reaching

10 Glenfada Park South. For example, if we go to AC113.3,

11 we will find the evidence of Anthony Crawford, who was

12 at the very south of Glenfada Park South. Look at

13 113.5 for a moment; he was at point D, which we can see

14 is at the very south of Glenfada Park South. If we go

15 back to 113.3, he says at paragraph 14:

16 "When I was at point D with Daniel Ferguson

17 I had my back to Joseph Place which was to the south of

18 us. Just after Daniel Ferguson pulled me in I saw two

19 lumps of plaster taken out of the wall where I had

20 moments earlier been standing (at point C). The two

21 bits of plaster were on that gable end wall about 12

22 feet up from the ground. I remember seeing the plaster

23 fall from the wall. I do remember that there was

24 shooting going on at that stage but I had no idea where

25 it was coming from. I cannot remember very much at all


Page 2


1 about the shooting I heard at that point. At the time

2 I did know the difference in the sound of a high

3 velocity shot and a low velocity shot, but I cannot

4 remember what the shots I heard then sounded like. The

5 shooting just seemed to be somewhere in the

6 background.

7 "15. I cannot remember how long I was

8 standing at point C or D. I just remember that we

9 waited at point D until the shooting died down.

10 I think it was possibly about 4.50 pm or 5.00 pm when

11 we left point D. I remember that it was getting

12 dark."

13 Some of those who were at the meeting at Free

14 Derry Corner say that the shots that broke up that

15 meeting came or appeared to come from the walls. If

16 you go to AB102.2, you will find the statement of Mary

17 Burke, who was standing four rows back from the

18 platform. At paragraph 8, she says this:

19 "Bernadette Devlin was on the platform as

20 well as a man whose name I cannot remember. They were

21 not actually speaking when we arrived at the platform

22 but were getting ready with their microphones. I was

23 probably about four rows back from the platform with my

24 husband. The platform was at point E [that is just

25 parallel with the house at Free Derry Corner]. We


Page 3


1 stood in this position waiting for the speakers to

2 start for a good while, although I could not say

3 exactly how long.

4 "9. Then Bernadette Devlin began speaking

5 although I do not recall exactly what she said. At

6 this point people started saying 'There is shooting,

7 there is shooting' or 'There is something happening'

8 and I climbed on to a small tree trunk which was on the

9 western side of the platform to the right as I looked

10 at it at point G on the map. I stood on the tree trunk

11 and looked north back up Rossville Street towards

12 William Street. I do not recall what I could see as

13 I looked up Rossville Street, but I do remember that

14 I then heard strange hissing and pinging noises as

15 things hit the ground and people started shouting

16 'Jesus that is shooting, that is shooting'.

17 "10. When I heard people saying it was

18 shooting I got down from the tree trunk and at that

19 point Bernadette Devlin shouted 'Get down, they are

20 shooting, they are shooting'.

21 "11. By now I was in fear for my life. We

22 all lay down on the ground; we were lying flat praying

23 for our lives. I thought I was about to die. There

24 seemed to be bullets everywhere. It did not feel as if

25 the soldiers could just be aiming for one person. The


Page 4


1 bullets kept pinging on the ground. I did not know

2 what shots sounded like before then. I am not sure

3 where the bullets were being fired from but I thought

4 it must have been the Derry walls. I did not see where

5 else they could have come from.

6 "12. My husband and I were still in the

7 middle of the crowd directly in front of the platform

8 to the north. I had my head towards the platform and

9 my feet pointing north up Rossville Street. Then a

10 woman directly behind me, further north up

11 Rossville Street, but very close to my feet, at point H

12 on the attached map, starting shouting 'I am shot, I am

13 shot'. I looked around and could see blood running out

14 of her ankle. I did not know who she was and I did not

15 really notice anything about her, although I think she

16 may have been about my age at the time, about 25 or

17 so. I do not remember which ankle the blood was coming

18 out of and I did not actually see her being shot.

19 I assume she had been hit by one of the bullets that

20 were hitting the ground around us."

21 If we go to the map, 102.4, the tree to which

22 she was referring is at G. The place where the lady

23 who we cannot identify was, who she says was shot in

24 the ankle, is at point H on this map.

25 Similar evidence comes from Bernadette


Page 5


1 Crawford at AC114.2. At paragraph 8, she says this:

2 "As the shooting started I was facing the

3 lorry with my back against Glenfada Park and the city

4 walls to my left. I was certain at that time the

5 shooting was coming from the walls. I looked up to the

6 walls because it was obvious where it was coming from.

7 I also remember seeing marks being made in the ground.

8 The marks were within a few feet from me, in between me

9 and the city walls. These marks stand out in my mind.

10 I know there were a number but do not know how many.

11 I could see the impression of these shots on the

12 ground, which was hard clay, not paving stones. I did

13 not look anywhere else other than glance up at the

14 walls when the shooting started and I did not scan the

15 whole way along them.

16 "9. I do remember seeing soldiers on the

17 walls and as far as I can remember there were quite a

18 lot of them. I think they were lined up, but it is

19 difficult to remember. I think the ones I saw were all

20 in combat gear, i.e. camouflage khaki, but I do not

21 remember seeing any berets. I cannot remember

22 specifically seeing them holding guns, but any time you

23 saw soldiers on the walls they always had guns. I did

24 not actually see any of them firing; I just heard the

25 shots. I do not remember hearing firing from anywhere


Page 6


1 else at this stage. I thought the shooting came from

2 the direction of Walkers Monument on the walls.

3 "10. The next thing I did was run. The

4 reaction of everyone around me was to run for cover.

5 People were screaming. I ran down the Lecky Road away

6 from Free Derry Corner towards the Bogside Inn at point

7 C. I did not turn round as I ran away. I was still

8 with Stella and Katherine."

9 Then she describes running off towards the

10 Bogside Inn.

11 If we then go to AC134.6, we will find a

12 portion of the statement of Michael Cusack, the bottom

13 half of the page, paragraph 10, where he says this:

14 "As I was walking north up Rossville Street

15 at point D on the attached map, I heard shots being

16 fired."

17 134.9 will show us point D on the attached

18 map. As we can see, that is just to the northwest --

19 almost due north in fact -- of Free Derry Corner. At

20 134.6, he says in paragraph 10, second line:

21 "I heard shots being fired. I recall another

22 fella, whom I did not know, say 'They are firing rubber

23 bullets'. However I had realised that live shots were

24 being fired and said 'No, it is the real McCoy'.

25 I told him to get down and we both lay down on the


Page 7


1 ground. Everyone else around me got down on the

2 ground. I did not recognise anyone else there. I lay

3 with my head facing the city walls but turned my head

4 towards Rossville Street to see what was happening

5 there. I thought that snatch squads were being

6 deployed but 10 to 20 seconds later I definitely heard

7 two or possibly three shots fired over my head. From

8 the sound of the returns of gunfire, I concluded that

9 the shots must have been fired from the city walls.

10 "11. Because shots were fired over my head

11 I thought that the soldiers were shooting

12 indiscriminately and that even I was a target. I could

13 not understand why the other soldiers on the city walls

14 had opened fire."

15 If you go to AD15.2, in the statement of

16 Eamonn Deanne, paragraph 13, he says this:

17 "I recall the first part of Bernadette

18 Devlin's speech, when she said something along the

19 lines of 'If the Brits want to stop us having a legal

20 meeting, let them try. There are 15 of us to each one

21 of them'. Before Bernadette Devlin could go any

22 further we heard screams and shouts of 'They are coming

23 in' and the paras are coming' from people further north

24 up Rossville Street. Due to the size of the crowd at

25 Free Derry Corner I could not get a good view of what


Page 8


1 was going on but I heard the noise of a large amount of

2 people panicking. People around us were shouting out

3 things like 'Stand your ground, let them come, do not

4 panic'. Suddenly a volley of shots rang out. They

5 were all high velocity shots and appeared to me to be

6 coming from the William Street end of Rossville Street

7 and also from the city walls to our east. I am unable

8 to say how many shots there were, but my recollection

9 is of a large number of shots being fired. There

10 appears to be no order to them, but the firing was

11 random. I recall high velocity shots being fired, but

12 I also recall hearing automatic fire from the northern

13 end of Rossville Street and also from the Derry City

14 walls; I am certain of this. I did not see anyone

15 firing shots from the city walls and I did not see any

16 shots strike the ground. However it was my immediate

17 and instinctive impression that shots were being fired

18 from the city walls because of the sound that the

19 bullets were making as they whistled through the air.

20 The atmosphere at Free Derry Corner immediately became

21 one of absolute panic and bewilderment. Everyone who

22 was gathered there immediately crouched or lay down and

23 looked for the nearest piece of cover. Sally and

24 I were no exception. I recall feeling that the firing

25 from different directions pinned down the crowd."


Page 9


1 Another witness with a similar impression is

2 Bridie Gallagher, whose evidence appears at AG5.2,

3 paragraph 10, the second half of the page:

4 "The next thing I remember is that just as

5 Bernadette Devlin started to introduce the speaker,

6 Lord Brockway, the shooting started. I distinctly

7 remember the loud, clear, sharp sounds of the shots.

8 I could not say if the shots came in bursts or were

9 sporadic, and I could not say how many shots I heard;

10 I did not count them. I had heard rubber bullets

11 before and recognised their sound. I knew that the

12 sound I could hear were definitely not those of rubber

13 bullets but live bullets. I still hear those shots --

14 they are clear in my mind.

15 "11. These first shots were coming from the

16 city walls to my left. I remain of that view to this

17 day. It was the sound and the nearness of the shots,

18 in fact everything about them, which led me to that

19 conclusion. I know that Hugo and all the people around

20 us at the time were of the same view. Hugo and I were

21 100 per cent certain they came from the walls. I am

22 positive. No one can tell me different. Nothing will

23 change my mind. I have made it my practice ever since

24 that day to keep my eye on the walls when I attend

25 marches, and if the soldiers are there I feel fear."


Page 10


1 If we go to AH22.2, we will find the evidence

2 of Margaret Harkin, which is to the effect that she

3 actually saw the flash of a shot from the walls. At

4 paragraph 7, she says this:

5 "I do not remember crossing the rubble

6 barricade. I proceeded with the other marchers on to

7 Free Derry Corner. When we arrived at Free Derry

8 Corner, the lorry was already there. I stood at Free

9 Derry Corner for about an hour talking and laughing

10 with my friends. There were quite a lot of people

11 there, around 100 or 200. The lorry was parked right

12 up against the wall at Free Derry Corner, with the

13 front pointing (east) towards the walls and the back

14 pointing (west) towards Lisfannon Park. I was standing

15 about a yard from the lorry, almost within touching

16 distance. For most of the hour we stood there,

17 Lord Brockway (whom I always thought was called

18 Lord Longford until advised by the solicitors from

19 Eversheds), one of the speakers, was standing on the

20 ground next to the lorry. I have been hard of hearing

21 all my life and did not have a hearing aid at the time

22 of the march. For the last 15 minutes he stood on the

23 lorry. He was the only person standing on it.

24 Bernadette Devlin was standing next to the lorry for

25 some of the sometime. She was coming and going from


Page 11


1 Free Derry Corner during the hour I was standing

2 there. She did not stand on the lorry. I could not

3 see anything back north on Rossville Street as I was

4 too short to see over the heads of the crowd behind

5 me. The crowd began to ask what was keeping the

6 speakers. Then someone shouted that somebody had been

7 shot in William Street. Bernadette Devlin told

8 everyone to stand their ground. Someone shouted to her

9 'We have no guns'.

10 "8. I then heard someone call out 'They are

11 shooting from the Derry Walls'. I looked up and saw

12 something flashing as it moved through the air from the

13 direction of the Derry walls towards the lorry. The

14 flash came from the city walls at grid reference L21.

15 I am positive that it did not come from the observation

16 point. When I saw it it was about halfway between the

17 walls and the lorry, about 12 feet in the air. I knew

18 it was a bullet. In the area where we lived I had seen

19 gun battles and I had seen bullets travelling through

20 the air as this one was. I still did not hear any

21 gunfire. However, I am hard of hearing and although

22 I would have heard gunfire if it had been close by,

23 I would not have heard it if it was further away. I

24 did not see or hear the bullet hit anything. As

25 I glanced up towards the walls, I did not see any


Page 12


1 movement on them or any soldiers there.

2 "9. Immediately after I saw the bullet,

3 Lord Longford [who she still refers to, meaning I think

4 Lord Brockway] jumped from the lorry."

5 If we go to AH22.4, L21 is the square that

6 I am about to highlight.

7 If we then go to AM116.1, we will find the

8 evidence of Kevin McClusky. At paragraph 6 he says

9 this:

10 "When I got to Free Derry Corner, there was a

11 lorry which was being used as a platform parked

12 parallel to the Free Derry wall.

13 "7. I stood by the corner of Joseph Place at

14 the point marked A [which is the very southwestern

15 corner of Joseph Place]. There seemed to be several

16 rows of people between me and the platform. I was

17 facing the platform and listening to the speakers.

18 There was a kind of carefree atmosphere, almost a

19 relief that we had got to the meeting and there had

20 been no trouble.

21 "8. Suddenly I heard a volley of shots.

22 I thought it was automatic fire like a rifle, not a

23 machine-gun, although I have not got any experience in

24 that respect. My impression was that the shots hit the

25 Free Derry wall, about a foot or two over the heads of


Page 13


1 the speakers, which would have been about 13 or 14 feet

2 from the ground. There seemed to be a line of thuds

3 well above their heads. In my mind, I can still see

4 the shots clearly; the shots were very close together.

5 The first shot was at the eastern corner of the wall

6 and the rest moved in a line westwards along the wall.

7 I could see the holes in the wall made by the bullets.

8 I think there may have been eight shots, but I could

9 not say for sure. I got the sense that the shots were

10 a warning.

11 "9. The speakers ducked down and were

12 assisted quickly off the lorry.

13 "10. Because the shots went from left to

14 right, and because of the height of the shots, I think

15 the shots came from the city walls. If they had come

16 from the direction of Glenfada Park, I would have

17 expected the shots to have moved from right to left.

18 However, I have since thought that the shots may have

19 come from the direction of Butcher's Gate. Although it

20 could have been from any part of the walls, it was

21 certainly from behind me and to my left as I stood at

22 the point marked A looking towards Free Derry Corner."

23 If we go to 116.9, we will see the map. A is

24 where he was, the southwest of Joseph Place. So he is

25 referring to shots going, so far as he was concerned,


Page 14


1 from left to right, and he thinks they may have come

2 from Butcher's Gate.

3 There is quite a lot of other evidence of a

4 similar nature.

5 LORD SAVILLE: If you read on in this

6 witness's statement, unless I have misunderstood it,

7 these shots preceded the paras coming from the

8 barricades.

9 MR CLARKE: Go back to 116.2.

10 LORD SAVILLE: It is what he does afterwards.

11 MR CLARKE: Yes.

12 LORD SAVILLE: Paragraphs 12 and 13.

13 MR CLARKE: Yes. He goes north up

14 Rossville Street, walks up there, the crowd is

15 thinning, people milling around.

16 LORD SAVILLE: He said.

17 "First the crowd was walking towards me

18 quite slowly and by the time I was level with Glenfada

19 Park North, they were moving more quickly", which would

20 appear -- certainly from the photographic evidence --

21 to be the moment the paras came in, which would put

22 these shots before that time.

23 MR CLARKE: Yes.

24 LORD GIFFORD: In relation to your question,

25 sir, could we just look at the next page?


Page 15


1 LORD SAVILLE: By all means, yes.

2 MR CLARKE: AM116.3, please. That would seem

3 to confirm, according to this witness, that it was a

4 little time later that the paras came in and the crowd

5 started running down Rossville Street.

6 LORD SAVILLE: Thank you very much.

7 MR CLARKE: There is quite a lot of evidence

8 of bullets hitting the walls above Bernadette Devlin's

9 head, apparently coming from the walls. I think,

10 without reading it all out, it might be helpful if

11 I just gave the references. Evidence to that effect

12 appears in the statement of Grainne O'Donnell, AO30;

13 Kathleen Hegarty, AH68, paragraph 18; Michael McGinley,

14 AM240, paragraph 19; Kathleen Morrison, AM435,

15 paragraph 10; Anne Mulheron, AM445, paragraph 10;

16 John Radcliffe, AR1, paragraph 6.

17 If we go to AM277.3, we will have some

18 evidence from Daniel McGuinness, which is quite

19 specific. At AM277.5 he says this at paragraph 20:

20 "When I reached Free Derry Corner, there was

21 already a circle of people -- it was not that large a

22 crowd -- gathered around the flatbed lorry, which was

23 probably the lorry that was at the front of the march

24 on which the speakers were standing at point D.

25 I stood on the west side of Free Derry Corner at the


Page 16


1 periphery of the group (at point E).

2 "21. Moments after I reached Free Derry

3 Corner and I saw that the speakers were about to begin,

4 there was a furious outburst of gunfire from the

5 direction of the north of Rossville Street behind me.

6 It was not the sound of machine-gun fire. It was the

7 sound of a lot of single shots. I remember everyone at

8 Free Derry Corner falling to the ground for cover. It

9 was like the wind blowing through grass. I did not

10 fall to the ground. I could not believe that the

11 British army would fire live ammunition at the crowd.

12 "22. I was the only one left standing as the

13 gunfire continued. I then heard one bullet passing me

14 about 15 feet to my left (east) and about 11 feet above

15 the ground. It was coming from the direction of the

16 north end of Rossville Street or William Street behind

17 me and was travelling south towards Free Derry Corner

18 or Lecky Road. Then a second bullet passed by, about 5

19 feet directly above my head, from the direction of the

20 city wall (on the east) travelling towards

21 Lisfannon Park (on the west). The fact that they both

22 passed well over my head made me think that they were

23 intended as warning shots. I remember that the two

24 bullets made a whizzing or hissing sound as they passed

25 me. It was a sound that I associated with something


Page 17


1 moving at high speed. I knew instantly that these were

2 live bullets.

3 "23. I immediately looked in the direction

4 of the city walls to see where the second bullet had

5 come from. An embrasure (a gap in the battlements used

6 for cannon) between the Apprentice Boys Hall (to the

7 north) and the army observation post (to the south)

8 I saw two persons -- I assume that they were men -- at

9 point F. Photograph 1, a copy of which is attached to

10 this statement, is a contemporary photograph of the

11 city walls taken from where I was standing on Bloody

12 Sunday at point E. The embrasure on the city walls

13 that I think I saw the two men in is circled on that

14 photograph, although it could have been one of the

15 other embrasures along that part of the wall."

16 If we go to AM277.10, we will see that he was

17 standing at point E. The embrasure of which he speaks

18 is at F, just to the west of the northwest corner of

19 the Apprentice Boys Hall. If you go to AM277.9, you

20 will see the contemporary photograph -- "contemporary"

21 meaning "contemporary with today". That is not the

22 best of photographs, but it is good enough. The

23 Apprentice Boys Hall is the one that I am pointing at.

24 The embrasure to which he is referring is where his

25 arrow, and now mine, point. The First Presbyterian


Page 18


1 Church is to the left of the hall as you look at it.

2 If we go back to 277.5, paragraph 24, he

3 says:

4 "The two men were both facing the embrasure

5 and were looking towards the Rossville flats and the

6 rubble barricade. One man was crouched leaning on the

7 bottom edge of the embrasure. He appeared to be

8 wearing a military uniform. I could not make out any

9 further details about him or his uniform and I could

10 not see whether or not he had a weapon. If he had a

11 weapon I doubt I would have been able to see it as

12 I was too far away. Standing directly behind him was a

13 person in an RUC Constable's uniform. He was wearing a

14 peaked cap. I immediately attributed the shot passing

15 over my head from that direction to having been fired

16 by one of those two people or by someone else near

17 them. There could have been other people on the walls

18 but I did not see them as my attention was completely

19 focused on the one embrasure. However, I cannot

20 remember seeing any other movement on the walls.

21 "25. I do not remember looking towards the

22 speakers on the civil rights lorry at all as I was too

23 busy looking to see where the shooting was coming

24 from. However, I have a vague recollection of seeing

25 Lord Brockway jumping off the lorry to get out of the


Page 19


1 way of the shooting when it first started.

2 "26. Moments after the second shot passed

3 over my head from the direction of the city walls there

4 was a brief lull in the gunfire. The people at Free

5 Derry Corner got up and began to run away from that

6 open area towards cover. I was able to run a little

7 way south into the Lecky Road to point G, when a second

8 burst of gunfire started up.

9 "27. Everyone in the Free Derry Corner area

10 dropped to the ground for cover for the second time and

11 this time so did I because I knew from the sound of the

12 two bullets that had passed so close to me that this

13 was live ammunition being fired and, from the

14 trajectories, that the gunfire was coming from two

15 separate locations. Some gunfire was coming from the

16 direction of the north of Rossville Street and William

17 Street and other gunfire was coming from the east, from

18 the direction of the city walls. I did not see or hear

19 the bullets hit anything and I did not see anyone

20 struck by a bullet. I do not think that the people at

21 Free Derry Corner were actually under direct fire at

22 any time.

23 "28. I had been on the ground for seconds

24 when the second burst of gunfire ended. My main

25 concern was to get out of the way of the live


Page 20


1 ammunition. As I ran south down Lecky Road, I remember

2 stopping to pull an old woman up out of a pool of icy

3 water at the north end of Lecky Road. I then continued

4 to run south down Lecky Road and turned right (west) to

5 Westland Street.

6 "29. I do not think that I heard further

7 gunfire, although there may have been a third burst of

8 gunfire when I was still in the Free Derry Corner

9 area. I just remember that when I reached the junction

10 of Lecky Road with Westland Street there was a lull

11 which was accompanied by a kind of hush that seemed to

12 signify the end of the shooting."

13 One witness, Theresa Cassidy, whose evidence

14 appears at AC51.2, speaks of bullets from the walls

15 hitting the ground both at Free Derry Corner and an

16 alleyway off St Columb's Wells. Paragraph 10, second

17 half of the page, she says this:

18 "At this point I just wanted to get to the

19 safety of my grandmother's house in St Columb's

20 Street. I got down on my hands and knees and began

21 crawling south along Rossville Street. There was a

22 short lull in the shooting and I managed to get as far

23 as Free Derry Corner. Bernadette Devlin and

24 Lord Brockway were still standing on the lorry at Free

25 Derry Corner. There were also a lot of people lying on


Page 21


1 the ground at Free Derry Corner screaming. The people

2 who were taking cover on the ground around the lorry

3 were shouting to the speakers on the lorry to get down

4 and take cover. When I reached Free Derry Corner

5 I threw myself to the ground. I then saw the bullets

6 actually bouncing off the ground in front of me.

7 I believed that the bullets were being fired from the

8 Derry walls. The shooting was most heavily

9 concentrated at this point. I was very afraid and

10 dared not look at the Derry walls. I managed to crawl

11 southeast along St Columb's Street (Fahan Street) to my

12 grandmother's house at point D on the attached map."

13 If we go to the attached map, which is at

14 AC51.6, point D is the second house down from the

15 north, on the east side of St Columb's Wells. Go back

16 to where we were before. She says this:

17 "11. The other members of my family that

18 I had travelled to the march with had already made it

19 to the safety of my grandmother's house. They thought

20 that I had been shot because I was the last to arrive.

21 The shooting continued while I was inside my

22 grandmother's house.

23 "12. We then went to our car which was

24 parked near St Columb's Wells. We went south along

25 St Columb's Wells and had to turn down an alleyway


Page 22


1 known as 'The banking' to reach our car. The banks

2 was at approximately point E. While we were in the

3 banking the shooting was worse than ever. I could see

4 the bullets bouncing off the ground in the banking.

5 The shots were definitely being fired from the

6 direction of the Derry walls. It was approximately

7 4.40 pm by this time.

8 "13. We then went home and heard on the

9 6.00 o'clock news how many people had died in the

10 Bogside that day."

11 Go back to AC57.6, we will find the area that

12 is being referred to as "the banking", it is right at

13 the bottom of the map at point E.

14 Another witness of shooting from the walls

15 towards Free Derry Corner is Jennifer Anne Doherty,

16 whose evidence is at AD72.1. At paragraph 5 she says

17 this:

18 "Rosie and I made our way past the platform

19 and sat on a small wall, the approximate position of

20 which is marked B. We sat on the wall for about 20 to

21 30 minutes chatting together. The speeches on the

22 platform were just starting when we sat down but we

23 were not really interested. There was about 20 to 30

24 yards between us and the main body of marchers gathered

25 around the platform. We had a clear view of the


Page 23


1 speakers and could have heard the speeches if we had

2 been paying attention.

3 "6. After about 20 minutes or so I looked up

4 towards the city walls and noticed about 10 soldiers.

5 They were positioned individually in the gaps on the

6 city walls about 10 yards apart. From where I was

7 sitting I could only see the section of the city wall

8 between the points marked C and D. I could see the

9 green of the soldiers' uniforms. I could also see

10 their helmets and the barrels of their rifles. It

11 seemed to me that the soldiers were positioned for a

12 purpose and I remember at the time that this scared

13 me."

14 If we look at AD72.3, she is describing

15 herself as having been at point B and the soldiers

16 between points C and D on the map. Go back to AD72.2.

17 She says this at paragraph 7:

18 "When I saw the soldiers I turned to Rosie

19 and said 'If they opened fire, we would be dead'. She

20 replied 'Do not be ridiculous, this is a political

21 March'. Almost immediately I heard about half a dozen

22 loud bangs in quick succession. Each bang sounded like

23 a car backfiring. We fell backward over the wall we

24 had been sitting on to take cover on the side away from

25 the walls.


Page 24


1 "8. I had had a clear view of the section of

2 the walls which I have described when I first heard the

3 gunshots being fired. It seemed to me that these first

4 shots came from the direction of the city walls.

5 However, I do not recall seeing any movement on the

6 walls when the shots were fired, nor did I see any

7 evidence of bullets hitting the ground in the area

8 around us."

9 In relation to evidence of what was or

10 appeared to be or was thought to be shooting from the

11 walls, I have in effect been travelling in a southerly

12 direction by reference to the spot where the witness

13 was or where the witness saw bullets land. But it is

14 possible to travel further south still because there

15 are a number of witnesses who were south of Free Derry

16 Corner when they heard shooting coming, so it appeared

17 to them, from the walls. It may be that the shooting

18 in question is the same as that to which others refer

19 as coming into Fahan Street West or Free Derry Corner

20 or it may be separate. One such witness is John Harkin

21 whose evidence at AH11.4. He was the man who got on to

22 the small building below block 1 and got on to the roof

23 of it. That appears at paragraph 121, where he says

24 this:

25 "21. Once I was on the flat roof, facing


Page 25


1 south towards Free Derry Corner, I remember that a

2 couple of shots hit the wall above my head. I believe

3 the wall was to my right-hand side which would mean

4 that it would be the south gable end of block 1. The

5 bullet did not make a noise like the ones you hear in

6 western films; it was not a sharp ping, but more of a

7 thud. I had the impression that I was being shot at,

8 although I have no idea from which direction the shots

9 came. I did not see anything come off the wall as the

10 bullets hit it.

11 "22. From my position on the flat roof I was

12 able to look down on top of the crowd in the alleyway

13 between blocks 1 and 2 and also out into the area south

14 of the Rossville flats. I was trying to find a way

15 down from the roof and out of the alleyway. I believe,

16 although I am not entirely sure, that I actually

17 climbed down with the aid of the telephone box which is

18 situated next to the building with the flat roof, at

19 the southern end of block 1, also at point J. The

20 glass had been knocked out of it and I remember using

21 the gaps as steps."

22 At AH11.17 he identifies what he was

23 referring to. He was on the flat roof that we see

24 there. He appears to have climbed down from it using

25 the telephone box with its broken glass windows as a


Page 26


1 form of ladder.

2 If we go back to AH11.4, he says this,

3 paragraph 23, the bottom half of the page:

4 "When I landed on the south side of the flats

5 in the corner between blocks 1 and 2, I could see that

6 there were a lot of people standing against the south

7 gable end of block 1 looking out towards

8 Rossville Street and the rubble barricade. They seemed

9 to be talking to each other, saying things like 'He has

10 been shot' and 'No, I can see him moving'.

11 "24. While standing at the south gable end

12 of block 1 of the Rossville flats next to the telephone

13 box, I also looked out at the rubble barricade.

14 I could see two bodies. The first body I saw was

15 actually lying on the rubble although I cannot remember

16 clearly which way the body as pointing. I think it may

17 have had its head pointing south towards Free Derry

18 Corner and its feet pointing north towards William

19 Street."

20 Paragraph 25, the top of the next page, he

21 identifies a second body at the barricade. Paragraph

22 26:

23 "The next thing I noticed was a man who had

24 been standing in the area close to the telephone box

25 near me. He appeared to be middle aged and I think he


Page 27


1 was wearing a tweed overcoat which was buttoned up.

2 The man was stooped over slightly and he walked out

3 west from the telephone box waving a hanky. Other

4 people in the group around me began to shout for him to

5 come back, but he kept going. I believe he got as far

6 as the point marked M. As he walked out I heard a

7 couple of shots ring out. I have no idea where they

8 came from, but believe it was probably from the north

9 on Rossville Street or the west from Glenfada Park

10 North. I believe I must have taken my eyes off the man

11 just before the shots rang out because I did not see

12 him actually shot. However the people in the crowd

13 around me suddenly shouted 'Jesus, he is shot'. When

14 I looked back I saw that he had slumped to the ground.

15 He appeared to have his head right down on the floor

16 and was on his knees. However his body was not stiff,

17 but seemed to be in a crumpled heap. I do not recall

18 seeing any blood but at that point. I knew I needed to

19 get away from the area. [That sounds very like Bernard

20 McGuigan].

21 "27. I then turned and ran south away from

22 the Rossville flats towards the plinth which was

23 situated at point N [point N on his map is in the place

24 of the Threepenny Bits]. The plinth was around 2 to 3

25 feet high. It covered a large area and there were a


Page 28


1 lot of people taking cover on the eastern side of it.

2 They were approximately five or six deep. I literally

3 dived for cover behind the eastern side of the plinth

4 and as I did I so I realised my brother Seamus was

5 already there. My brother Seamus claims that as

6 I dived behind the plinth for safety a bullet hit the

7 plinth, just missing me. I do not have any memory of

8 this happening.

9 "28. I dived to the eastern side of the

10 plinth because I felt I needed to protect myself from

11 shots coming down Rossville Street and east from

12 Glenfada Park. I remember that there was a red headed

13 girl behind the plinth who was squealing and

14 screaming. At this point I was not at all worried

15 about shooting from the city walls. If I had been then

16 my position on the eastern side of the plinth would

17 have left me entirely exposed.

18 "29. I think it was while I was sheltering

19 behind the plinth that I saw another body. The body

20 was lying between the south side of block 2 of the

21 Rossville flats and the north end of Joseph Place,

22 approximately point O on the attached map [O is the

23 place where Patrick Doherty lay].

24 "30. After lying behind the plinth for some

25 time, I decided to make a run for it to Joseph Place.


Page 29


1 I believe I jumped into the front garden of the second

2 house from the northeast end marked as point P on the

3 attached map. I remember thinking it was really quite

4 comical the way a lot of people were actually diving

5 head first over the walls into the gardens in front of

6 Joseph Place. I then moved southwest through the

7 gardens and into the gap between the two blocks of

8 Joseph Place, point Q."

9 Go to AH11.20, to see whether we are catching

10 up with him in his description. He goes to N, where he

11 takes cover behind the plinth; then to the garden at P;

12 and then to Q, having seen a body at O; and the man who

13 walked out from block 1 with a hanky falls at M.

14 Going back to where we were, he says this,

15 fourth line down from the top:

16 "I remember that I could still hear shooting

17 at this point. When I entered the gap between the two

18 blocks of Joseph Place, the people already in there

19 told me that there was shooting coming from the city

20 walls. Because of this, we all crouched down and moved

21 out of the gap between the two blocks and around to the

22 back (southeast) of Joseph Place. We then hid behind

23 the low wall which ran along the back of the

24 maisonettes at Joseph Place. I believe my brother

25 Seamus was still with me at this point and we started


Page 30


1 to move south, undercover of the wall, towards Free

2 Derry Corner. As we moved along, I believe the

3 shooting stopped.

4 "31. Once we made it to the end of the low

5 wall, point R on the attached map, we were faced with a

6 large open space between us and St Columb's Wells. The

7 open space was particularly vulnerable from the

8 direction of the city walls. However we knew that if

9 we got into St Columb's Wells we would be safe from the

10 firing coming south down Rossville Street and west from

11 the city walls. Consequently we made a run for it and

12 moved into St Columb's Wells.

13 "32. Once into St Columb's Wells we could

14 hear shouting coming from the area of Joseph Place.

15 I think people were shouting that there were wounded

16 and injured and they were asking for help. There were

17 a large number of other people already in St Columb's

18 Wells when my brother and I arrived, but none of them

19 made any move to go and assist the wounded. After a

20 short while I decided to go and help. I carried a

21 hanky and I retraced my steps north until I was

22 standing in the middle of the open ground between

23 Joseph Place and St Columb's Wells. As I stood there,

24 the people who had been hiding at the back of

25 Joseph Place carried dragged or helped about three or


Page 31


1 four wounded people over the open space and into

2 St Columb's Wells.

3 "33. I do not remember very much about the

4 wounded or exactly how many there were, although I do

5 remember in particular an old man of between 40 and 45

6 who was carried by the arms and legs as if he was in

7 a chair. I think he had been hit in the back or hip,

8 although he still looked alive [sounds rather like

9 Patrick Campbell]. I also remember a woman being one

10 of the wounded and I took it for granted that one of

11 the others was the body which I had seen lying prone

12 between the Rossville flats and Joseph Place at point O

13 [if that was Patrick Doherty he was wrong about that].

14 Once all the wounded were over the road, I followed

15 them back to St Columb's Wells and watched as they were

16 put into cars and driven away. I do not remember

17 anything about the cars or the people carrying the

18 wounded.

19 "34. The next thing I remember was hearing a

20 shot hit the wall on the west side of St Columb's

21 Wells. There was a gap in the row of houses to the

22 east side of St Columb's Wells, directly opposite the

23 point where the bullet hit the wall. I believe the gap

24 had been caused by the removal of two or three houses,

25 although I no longer recall how far along St Columb's


Page 32


1 Wells it was. Nor can I remember precisely where the

2 bullet struck the wall, and it is possible that the

3 bullet hit the road and ricochetted on to the wall.

4 However, from the position of the gap and the area

5 where the bullet hit the wall, I believe that the shot

6 must have been fired from the city walls.

7 "35. At this point there were a large number

8 of people around me in St Columb's Wells, although none

9 of them were standing in the gap. The next thing

10 I noticed was a priest, who I did not recognise, drive

11 up to us in a car marked with first aid emblems. He

12 parked his car directly in front of the gap through

13 which the bullet had been fired. I remember we had a

14 bit of a laugh about this and then moved the car out

15 of the gap by pulling it south by its back bumper.

16 "36. I then made my way south down to

17 McKeown's Lane in order to make my way home. When

18 I reached McKeown's Lane, I met a young man who also

19 appeared only to have just got there, although I do not

20 know which direction he came from. I did not know the

21 young man and could not now describe him. He was

22 carrying a hunting-type gun. I would say it shot

23 pellets. It was the sort of thing you would expect

24 someone to use to shoot rabbits. It would certainly

25 have been no use at all against a British army SLR.


Page 33


1 I think the young man had come down to protect the

2 people, although he did not say or do very much. When

3 the people in McKeown's Lane realised that he had a

4 gun, they sent him packing so he had no opportunity at

5 all to try to fire it. In any event, by the time he

6 turned up with the hunting gun, all the shooting and

7 panic in the Bogside itself had ceased."

8 If we go to AD19.3, we will find the evidence

9 of James Deans who was in a house at Joseph Place.

10 Paragraph 21 he says this:

11 "I stayed in the house at Joseph Place for

12 about half an hour. It could have been longer,

13 I cannot really remember.

14 "22 as soon as I felt safe enough I came out

15 of the house at Joseph Place and walked south down the

16 western side of the houses of Joseph Place towards

17 St Columb's Wells. I was on my own by this time and

18 walked south down St Columb's Wells which runs parallel

19 to Lecky Road. I was trying to get to my parents' home

20 in the Creggan.

21 "23. As I approached McKeown's Lane, which

22 runs between Lecky Road and St Columb's Wells, I saw

23 about three people on my right-hand side [that is the

24 western side of St Columb's Wells], one of whom was a

25 girl. I only remember them because I saw them on the


Page 34


1 opposite side of the street walking ahead of me and

2 then heard and saw a shot ricochet off the wall behind

3 them at point G on the map. I thought that they had

4 been shot at from the city walls because of the

5 position of the wall that the bullet ricochetted off.

6 The soldiers on the city walls would have had a good

7 view of the three people as they walked on the western

8 side of St Columb's Wells. The houses on the eastern

9 side of St Columb's Wells are very small with low roofs

10 and backed on to the steep banking leading up to the

11 city walls."

12 If we go to AD19.6, we will see where is the

13 point G to which this witness is referring. There is

14 marked in St Columb's Wells two X's, one on the east

15 side and one on the west. The one on the east side

16 has, in manuscript, the word "shot". That appears to

17 tally with what is said in the statement, because it is

18 all said to occur in E26, which is the square in which

19 those two X's appear. I think the witness is referring

20 to that spot, though it would have been more helpful

21 if, as the statement says, a "G" had been put on the

22 map, not least because there is a G on the map in a

23 completely different position which I do not think the

24 witness can possibly be referring to.

25 If we go back to where we were, AD19.3, he


Page 35


1 says at the bottom half of the page, paragraph 24:

2 "These three people were not doing anything

3 when they were shot at. They were not gesticulating at

4 the soldiers on the city walls as they would not have

5 been able to see them from where they were. I then

6 heard another shot, but I have no idea who this shot

7 was aimed at.

8 "25. The group of three people ran on when

9 they heard the shots. I do not remember where they

10 went. I pushed myself against the door of a house on

11 the west side of McKeown's Lane and went in."

12 Another witness of firing from the walls

13 being heard or perceived in St Columb's Wells is that

14 of Ellen Kelly, whose evidence appears at AK5.2. At

15 paragraph 10, she says this:

16 "Pauline felt sick and we left the house

17 where we were in Fahan Street and we turned southerly

18 into the road St Columb's Wells. We knocked on a door

19 on the eastern side of St Columb's Wells, somewhere

20 around grid reference H22/H23/G23.

21 "11. I explained to the man who opened the

22 door that my friend felt sick. The young lad who we

23 had seen had now been taken away in a black car by some

24 two or three people and we understood that he was being

25 taken to hospital. Pauline wanted a drink of water and


Page 36


1 she asked the man if she could have one. The man said

2 that his water tap was in his back garden and there was

3 no way he was going to get a glass of water because

4 there was firing coming from above the garden from the

5 city walls. Because my friend felt so unwell, I ran

6 out into the garden, filled up a cup of water and ran

7 back in to give it to her. When I was in the garden

8 I did not look up at the walls and did not actually see

9 anyone firing. My main concern was to get in and out

10 of the garden and back into the house to safety.

11 I could hear shooting, however, which sounded like

12 highly pitched noises, but I did not concentrate on

13 where it came from. When Pauline calmed down she

14 realised that she had lost her handbag. We were not

15 going to look outside, however, and after five or ten

16 minutes, matters became quieter. We decided to leave

17 and we got back to the Creggan via Westland Street.

18 If we go to AH52.3, we will find the evidence

19 of Bernard Heaney, who ran south towards Free Derry

20 Corner as soon as he heard shots. At paragraph 16, he

21 says this:

22 "When I reached Free Derry Corner I could see

23 a friend of mine. He appeared to be lying down behind

24 a very low kerb or wall. I am not entirely sure where

25 he was but have marked the approximate position on the


Page 37


1 photograph which is appendix 2 to this statement."

2 AH52.7 is appendix 2. The approximate

3 position of his friend is just to the north of the

4 houses at the Free Derry Corner. Back to where we

5 were, paragraph 16, fourth line:

6 "My friend was lying with his head pointing

7 north and his feet pointing south. He was shouting at

8 me to get down. I think I tried to make it all the way

9 into the Wells but only got as far as the corner of

10 Fahan Street and St Columb's Wells at point E. At this

11 point I fell on the ground and lay face down. My head

12 was pointing southeast and my feet were pointing

13 northwest. I remember that an old lady fell on top of

14 my legs. I think other people may also have landed on

15 top of her. Because of this I felt trapped. I could

16 still hear the shooting and by now I felt real terror

17 that I would be shot in the face from the Derry walls.

18 "17. As I lay at point E, trapped under the

19 old lady, my face and head felt very exposed and

20 I clearly remember covering the side of my face with my

21 left-hand. I have a vague impression of hearing

22 bullets hitting Free Derry Corner at this stage.

23 I felt exposed and vulnerable lying in view of the

24 walls. I could still hear shooting from behind me to

25 the north. My strongest memory of this stage of the


Page 38


1 day is that everything appeared to be eerily quiet as

2 I concentrated on listening to the rifle shots.

3 Everything seemed to be happening very slowly. After a

4 short time I turned round to the old lady who was lying

5 on my legs and asked if she was all right. I remember

6 that she said that she was grand. When I got up I made

7 a run for it and dived round in to St Columb's Wells.

8 I do not remember whether or not I could still hear any

9 shooting at this stage but believe it must have almost

10 stopped. Once I was in the Wells, I felt relatively

11 safe and remember speaking to a number of friends

12 there.

13 "19. We decided to make our way further

14 (south) down the Wells. As we were about to cross a

15 lane, a Derry man whom I did not know but recognised

16 slightly told us not to go any further down the Wells

17 as they were firing down the alleyway from the city

18 walls. The alleyway was at the north end of the Wells

19 and ran from the northeast to the southwest, towards

20 the city walls, approximately point F. However, the

21 people in the group I was with then took it in turns to

22 run across the alleyway. I felt we were at a terrible

23 risk of being shot. At this point, I think I could

24 still hear shooting, although it was much more sporadic

25 and less intense by now. I do not remember where the


Page 39


1 shots were coming from, but I have a very strong memory

2 of feeling exposed and vulnerable as I ran across.

3 I felt that shots had come down the lane from the walls

4 as we were crossing.

5 "20. After this point I have a blank in my

6 memory."

7 The alleyway at point F may be found at

8 H52.6. It is on the east side of St Columb's Wells.

9 We can see at the time that St Columb's Wells and

10 Lecky Road were approximately parallel. At the

11 junction of Westland Street and Lecky Road there was,

12 and is, the Bogside Inn. There were a number of

13 witnesses in the vicinity of the Bogside Inn who give

14 evidence of shooting, apparently towards them. If we

15 go to AG49.2, we will find the evidence of

16 Eileen Green, the widow of Patrick Doherty. At

17 paragraph 9 she says:

18 "I saw my father at the Bogside Inn. There

19 was a metal rail in front of the Bogside Inn and a car

20 parked parallel with the wall. The shooting was still

21 going on and my father pulled me down to the ground

22 behind the car. We used the car as shelter. Everyone

23 else around us got down to the ground. This was the

24 only time when I knew for certain where the shooting

25 was coming from; I could hear that it was coming from


Page 40


1 the direction of the city walls and it seemed to be

2 coming straight at us. We were behind the car as

3 shelter because the shots were coming from the walls.

4 I knew that the shooting could not have come from north

5 of us because the Rossville flats would have been in

6 the way. I did not get a sense of anything hitting the

7 ground or going past our heads. I could not see any

8 soldiers or any army vehicles where I was at that

9 stage. I cannot remember whether I spoke to my father

10 when we were down on the ground."

11 Another witness who was not far off was in

12 the east side of Meenan Square below the Bogside Inn;

13 that is Peter Harrigan. If we go to his map first, at

14 AH37.6, the places we need to note in order to

15 understand his statement are 8, which is at Free Derry

16 Corner and 9, which is in Meenan Square. The

17 Bogside Inn we have seen, at the junction of Westland

18 Street and Lecky Road. Behind the Bogside Inn there is

19 a paved area. Then behind that is Meenan Square.

20 Access can be obtained to Meenan Square from Lecky Road

21 under a covered way which is marked with a cross at

22 point 10 on the map. If we go back to AH37.3,

23 paragraph 14, third line down from the top, he says:

24 "The shooting had started when I was running

25 to take cover and was in the approximate position


Page 41


1 marked 8. I cannot recall my exact route but know that

2 I ended up behind the building to the rear of the

3 Bogside Inn on the corner of Westland Street and

4 Lecky Road. I was standing in the approximate position

5 marked 9. There I met my neighbour, Mary McKinney, the

6 sister of Willie McKinney. Mary and I were standing to

7 the north of an opening which ran underneath a covered

8 walkway. The covered walkway is marked 10 on the map.

9 To the south of the walkway at the position marked 11

10 was Mary' sister Anne. Mary was adamant that she was

11 going to run south across the opening to her sister.

12 I told her not to as I could hear shooting nearby.

13 However she was adamant that she was going to run south

14 across the opening. Mary kept saying that she had to

15 get to her sister. I held on to Mary to stop her

16 running across the opening.

17 "15. After a short while, I cannot recall

18 how long, there was a lull in the shooting. I told

19 Mary to run across the opening. When Mary was halfway

20 across the opening running towards her sister, there

21 were two loud cracks as shots rang out. The shots

22 either hit the wall above us or came through the

23 opening underneath the walkway from east to west.

24 I heard a ricochet not far off, but I could not see

25 where the bullet hit. I was petrified. Although


Page 42


1 I could not tell from where the shots had come

2 I thought they had come from high up. My guess was

3 that the shots had come from the direction of the

4 Rectory Hall to the south of St Augustine's Church on

5 the city walls. Rectory Hall is just off the map south

6 of grid reference K26/L26."

7 If one goes back to AH37.6, to the area we

8 were looking at, 11 is the spot where Mary's sister

9 was. She wished to run, and did run, from point 9 to

10 point 11. K26 and L26 are in the spot that I am

11 highlighting in blue. So what he is describing as

12 Rectory Hall must have been somewhere just off the map

13 to the south.

14 If we go to AG15.2 we will find the evidence

15 of James Joseph Gallagher, who came to be at his

16 mother's house at 4 St Patrick's Street. I will come

17 to where that is in a moment. He says in paragraph 11:

18 "I walked south towards Free Derry Corner,

19 into St Columb's Street, and then turned right into

20 St Columb's Wells. Further south down St Columb's

21 Wells I turned left into Howard Street and then left

22 again into St Patrick's Street, which is a cul-de-sac.

23 Howard Street and St Patrick's Street are not printed

24 on the attached map, but have been marked on it."

25 If we go to AG15.4, what he has marked is


Page 43


1 that if you continue on down St Columb's Wells you get

2 to Howard Street. Indeed you do. If we can have on

3 the screen Q2. As you go down St Columb's Wells, just

4 after the Bogside Inn you get McKeown's Lane; the

5 Bogside Inn I am pointing to in red. Howard Street to

6 which he is referring is at the bottom of St Columb's

7 Wells. St Patrick's Street is a cul-de-sac off

8 Howard Street and it lies just below the double

9 bastion. If we go back to AG15.2, he says this:

10 "When I arrived at my mother's house, I had

11 to listen to her telling me off for going on to the

12 march. I then went out to the toilet which was in the

13 backyard (marked X on the attached man). I was facing

14 southeast. Just as I was about to open the toilet door

15 I heard two individual shots. They were certainly from

16 my left, approximately to the north, and sounded as

17 though they came from a height. I formed the

18 impression that the shots came from the general

19 direction of the city walls, though I cannot be

20 certain. They may have come from the derelict houses

21 near the city walls (grid J23). I later learned to

22 distinguish the sound of an SLR and, thinking back, the

23 shots did not sound like an SLR. They were soft and

24 sharp. I wondered if they could have been silenced,

25 because they sounded muffled.


Page 44


1 "13. There was a silence for 30 seconds to a

2 minute and I went to the toilet. As I came out and

3 went back into the house there was more shooting and

4 screaming.

5 "14. My mother was by this stage almost in

6 hysterics and insisted I did not go out. I stayed with

7 her for approximately 10 to 15 minutes until the

8 shooting stopped. Whilst I was in the house the

9 shooting seemed to be individual shots, sometimes two

10 or three together. There were no volleys or bursts of

11 machine-gun fire.

12 "15. When I felt that the shooting had

13 stopped, approximately 15 minutes later, I decided to

14 go out and see what had happened. As I left there was

15 no sound, just an eerie silence."

16 Go back to the map at AG15.4, the spot that

17 he is referring to as X is on the map. The derelict

18 houses to which he is referring are at J23, beneath the

19 Royal bastion.

20 There are some witnesses who heard the sound

21 of firing that seemed to come from the walls from

22 further south still. Father Andrew Dolan, whose

23 statement appears at H7.2, was making his way south

24 past Free Derry Corner when he heard the first crack of

25 gunfire. He then continued on his way to devotions at


Page 45


1 Nazareth House and went past Long Tower Church. If we

2 go to the bottom of the page, paragraph 13, he says

3 this:

4 "I do not recall the precise route which

5 I took to get to Nazareth House. I was going past the

6 Long Tower Church when a couple of people said to me

7 'Be careful, father, there is gunfire coming from up

8 there', pointing up towards the city walls. There was

9 indeed gunfire coming from the city walls. It was as

10 if the city walls had opened up with gunfire. This

11 gunfire was more intense than the earlier gunfire that

12 had been coming from William Street. I am not sure

13 whether the gunfire from William Street was continuing

14 at this stage. The only gunfire that I could hear was

15 coming from the city walls.

16 "14. I did not look up to the city walls as

17 I would not have been able to see anything from where

18 I was. The area of the city walls overlooking where

19 I was was roughly where the Walker monument was. I do

20 not know where the gunfire was targeted although it was

21 coming across the Bogside from the high ground. If

22 there was a gun battle I do not know who it was with,

23 but I could not have dreamt that this gunfire was aimed

24 at civilians."

25 If we go back to Q2, it is not completely


Page 46


1 easy to tell from the statement exactly where he was,

2 if we go to Q3. At some stage he was going past the

3 Long Tower Church, which is the church that I am

4 pointing to, which is to the northwest of Long Tower

5 Street. But his description is of being told when he

6 was going past the Long Tower Church to "Be careful

7 because there was gunfire coming from the walls". His

8 statement then goes on to say that he did not look up

9 to the city walls and that the area of the city walls

10 overlooking where he was was roughly where the Walker

11 monument was. But the Walker monument is some

12 considerable way away from Long Tower Street, and he

13 was making his way to Nazareth House. It is not

14 entirely easy at first blush to work out where he was

15 when he was told about firing from the walls and when

16 he heard firing from the walls. We will have to

17 discover that in due course.

18 Another witness, Sean McGlinchey, whose

19 evidence appears at AM248.2, also records being shot

20 at, his impression being that he was shot at from the

21 walls, on his way to the Long Tower Chapel. If you go

22 to paragraph 10 at the bottom half of the page, his

23 statement says this:

24 "Dennis and I decided to get away to the

25 Long Tower Chapel. We were walking south down the


Page 47


1 southern continuation of Fahan Street East when we got

2 to a gap. The road continued straight ahead of us but

3 there was a gap in the houses to the left (east) of

4 us. We were to the north side of this gap and about to

5 cross it when a man and a woman who were standing on

6 the south side said to us 'Do not come any further

7 son'. Two shots rang out almost immediately from our

8 left, i.e. to the east of where we were standing. This

9 was extremely frightening. My impression was that the

10 shots came from Derry's walls. The bullets hit the red

11 brick work which was immediately opposite the gap

12 I have described on the western side of

13 Fahan Street East. Dennis and I found this more

14 frightening than what had happened in Rossville Street

15 because when we had been in that area we were not aware

16 that the army were firing live ammunition. We

17 therefore stayed exactly where we were for what seemed

18 like an age.

19 "11. Eventually we decided to make a break

20 for it and ran past the gap and headed off towards

21 Brandywell."

22 It may be, if we go to his map, AM248.4,

23 although he was on his way to the Long Tower Church,

24 that appears to be an account of a shot coming from the

25 walls through a gap on the east side of St Columb's


Page 48


1 Wells, either a gap because there was a building or

2 possibly, if you go back to Q2, there is in fact at

3 least one natural gap -- by which I mean a gap not

4 created by the fact that the houses have fallen down --

5 almost immediately opposite McKeown's Lane on the east

6 side. Another witness has referred to a gap further to

7 the north, constituted by the fact that a building was

8 derelict or had fallen down. It is probably to one of

9 those that reference is being made.

10 If we go, however, to AM406.3, we will find

11 another witness, Alec Moore, who says he was shot at

12 when at the Long Tower Church and believes that the

13 shot came from the walls. His account starts at

14 paragraph 11. He says:

15 "As I was running south down St Columb's

16 Wells towards the church, a young girl fell in front of

17 me. Initially I thought she had been shot. I grabbed

18 her by her hair and pushed her into a house on

19 St Columb's Wells which had its door open. I did not

20 see her face, but it was clear that she had only

21 tripped or stumbled and had not been shot. I did not

22 see her again.

23 "12. I then carried on running towards

24 Long Tower Church, which I have marked point 1 on the

25 map attached as attachment 2. Long Tower Church was


Page 49


1 not my parish church; it was merely a safe haven on

2 that day. When I reached the church there were about a

3 dozen people inside. I remember, in particular, that

4 my aunt and uncle were there, Billy and Molly Carrigan,

5 but I did not speak to them. Looking back this was

6 strange, although I was really panicking at this time.

7 I cannot say whether anybody else came into the church

8 after me.

9 "13. After about five or ten minutes

10 I decided to make a dash home even though I could still

11 hear shooting outside. I cannot say where these shots

12 were coming from. I went to the door of the church

13 which faced northeast up St Columb's Wells. The

14 entrance has two doors and the door on the western side

15 of the doorway remained open throughout. As

16 I approached the door, I heard three single shots,

17 which had the same sharp crack as the shots that I had

18 heard earlier. Instinctively I looked east towards the

19 city walls. I cannot say for certain that the shots

20 came from the city walls as I did not see any soldiers

21 on the walls. I certainly believe that the shots were

22 coming from the city walls.

23 "14. I decided it was not safe to go home

24 yet and so went back inside the church. A short while

25 later I went to the door again. I heard another three


Page 50


1 or four shots from the city walls. By this time I was

2 convinced that the shots were aimed at me. However,

3 I now believe that if the shots had been aimed at me

4 they would have hit the door to the church even if they

5 missed me."

6 If we go to the map to which he refers,

7 AM406.6, I do not think that is really as helpful as

8 the previous map, but one can see the Long Tower Church

9 referred to again. Of course the city walls are up to

10 the northeast. If we go to AS35.3, we will find a

11 witness, James Joseph Stewart, who was coming in the

12 opposite direction in a Volkswagen pick-up van with a

13 flat back and drop sides that was used as a milk

14 float. At paragraph 18, he says this:

15 "We had just about reached Free Derry Corner

16 (we were at point A which is marked on the map

17 attached) when the van's progress was slowed by the

18 increasing swarms of people running south away from

19 Rossville Street and into the Lecky Road. Then a man

20 forced us to bring the van to a complete halt on the

21 left (west) side of the road by standing right in front

22 of us. We realised then that something drastic must be

23 happening and I rolled down my window. The man who was

24 standing in front of the van said 'They are shooting

25 everybody'. By now there was a crowd in front of the


Page 51


1 van who were completely blocking its passage. Everyone

2 was so desperate to get away from Rossville Street and

3 Free Derry Corner that they were running into one

4 another. Everyone wanted to tell us about the

5 shooting. I remember that I asked 'Where are they

6 shooting from?'. People told me that nobody knew where

7 they were shooting from. They said they seemed to be

8 shooting from everywhere.

9 "19. From my position high up in the van

10 I could see all around me over people's heads. I could

11 see waves of people come running up from the direction

12 of Free Derry Corner and Rossville Street. Behind the

13 crowd of people tucked up tight in front of our van

14 I could see a blank space. It gradually dawned on me

15 that the blank space was caused by people crouching and

16 lying down at Free Derry Corner. I had initially

17 thought that people were running away from some sort of

18 confrontation in Rossville Street. When I saw people

19 lying down and ducking down at Free Derry Corner

20 I wondered what on earth was going on. Then somebody

21 called out 'They are shooting from the walls, they are

22 shooting from the walls'.

23 "20. At that point I heard a burst of

24 automatic gun fire. It seemed to come from somewhere

25 to my right (east) from the direction of the Derry


Page 52


1 walls. It was definitely not coming from the direction

2 of William Street or the Rossville flats. At the time

3 I was convinced that it was coming from the walls.

4 I am also certain that this was machine-gun fire that

5 I heard. Having lived in Derry all my life I was more

6 than familiar with the different sounds of gunshots.

7 I could clearly distinguish between automatic

8 machine-gun fire and single reports from a rifle.

9 I also could not have mistaken the sound of a

10 helicopter's rotary blades for machine-gun fire. The

11 machine-gun fire must have lasted for about two to

12 three seconds in total.

13 "21. When I heard the machine-gun fire

14 I immediately looked towards the walls, which I could

15 see very clearly. I saw a group of people standing

16 along the walls between points B and C. They were

17 spread out along that area of the walls and they seemed

18 to be just standing there. I could see these people

19 very clearly from the shoulders upwards. I could

20 identify army and police uniforms. The police may have

21 been standing slightly behind the soldiers."

22 AS35.7 shows where B and C are, just in front

23 of the platform:

24 "22. About 30 seconds after I heard the

25 machine-gun fire I heard two bangs in the distance.


Page 53


1 They sounded slightly muffled and at the time I thought

2 that they could have been rubber bullets. However on

3 reflection I am certain that the sounds were two sharp

4 to have been rubber bullets. They seemed to come from

5 the direction of the north end of Rossville Street near

6 the junction of that street with William Street.

7 "23. When the people in Lecky Road had said

8 that there was shooting in the area I had not believed

9 them. When I actually heard the gunfire for myself

10 I still did not believe what was happening. However I

11 remember that all the people around me had a look of

12 terror in their faces. Even so I still did not believe

13 that anyone would have actually been shot. I just

14 could not believe that the army could be shooting at a

15 crowd of civilians. I remember feeling that the whole

16 situation was surreal. Everyone around the van had hit

17 the ground for cover. I could see people all around us

18 crawling on the ground on their hands and knees.

19 "24. All around us blind panic had set in.

20 John and I did not want to hang about in the area and

21 we reversed the van back south to the corner of Leckey

22 Road with Westland Street."

23 He goes on to describe what happened, but

24 without any further direct evidence save that, if we go

25 to paragraph 27 on page 35.5, he says this:


Page 54


1 "The next day, I remember going into town.

2 Everyone was walking around like zombies. The whole

3 town was totally numb. I went to the grass banking by

4 the Derry walls, near to where I had seen the police

5 and army (between points B to C on the map). I could

6 clearly see bullet holes in the grass, where the soil

7 had been disturbed. There were other people around me

8 looking at the bullet holes who were saying that there

9 had been shooting from the walls near there. When

10 I saw those bullet holes in the grass, I remember the

11 automatic machine-gun fire that I had heard from that

12 area of the city walls."

13 If we go to AO9.2, we will find a portion of

14 the evidence of Collette O'Connor, who was in her front

15 garden at 26 Cable Street. If we could have Q2, we can

16 find where that is. Cable Street runs roughly parallel

17 to the Lecky Road. Number 26 is just at the corner of

18 Dove Gardens, where I am pointing. It is behind Meenan

19 Square and the Bogside Inn.

20 If we go to AO9.2, she says, paragraph 9:

21 "When we got home to Cable Street, my mother

22 went into the kitchen and started to make some tea.

23 I was sitting in the living room when all of a sudden

24 I became aware of a lot of shooting going on outside

25 although it sounded fairly far away. There seemed to


Page 55


1 be so many shots being fired, although I cannot be more

2 precise as to the number. My mother called my grandad

3 into the kitchen and said to him they must be live

4 bullets that were being fired. My grandad said that

5 they could not be and they had to be rubber bullets.

6 My mother, my grandad and I then went outside to the

7 front of the house and stood in the front garden to

8 listen. Whilst we were doing so the shooting was still

9 continuing.

10 "10. All of a sudden there were then two

11 loud cracks and two fellas who had been walking up

12 Dove Gardens dived into our garden to take cover.

13 These two shots seemed to be a lot closer than all of

14 the shots we had heard earlier. We therefore thought

15 these two shots had come from the army post on the city

16 walls which could be seen from our house. However we

17 did not see the shots actually being fired, nor see any

18 bullets striking the ground.

19 "11. After we heard the shots we were very

20 anxious and went back inside. The shooting from far

21 away was still continuing and seemed to last for

22 ages."

23 Lastly, if we go to AM264.4, we will find the

24 evidence of Patricia McGowan. She arrived in Cable

25 Street. Paragraph 20 records as follows:


Page 56


1 "As I arrived in Cable Street I met a woman

2 who I did not know. An old woman who lived in Cable

3 Street called us in, saying 'Come in daughters'. We

4 stayed there for hours drinking tea. The front room of

5 the house looked up to the city walls. It was my

6 impression that there was rifle shooting coming from

7 that direction. However, the house in Cable Street was

8 too far away from the walls to be able to see soldiers

9 on the walls. The shooting at the time seemed to be

10 coming from all directions."

11 That evidence that we have been looking at is

12 evidence of various people in various different spots

13 hearing or seeing -- or believing they heard or

14 saw -- evidence coming from the walls. There is also

15 a body of evidence, which I do not propose to go into

16 in the same detail, of people being warned to get their

17 heads down at various spots by others who either saw or

18 had seen or believed that they saw firing from the

19 walls, or who had been told themselves that there was

20 firing from the walls. A few examples of that will

21 suffice.

22 If we take AB2.4, Eamon Baker, whose evidence

23 this is, was at the time a 20 year old English

24 literature student at Queens University Belfast. He is

25 one of the youths behind the corrugated tin sheet at


Page 57


1 barrier 14. He turned back and ran up William Street

2 and down Chamberlain Street when he realised that army

3 vehicles were heading down Rossville Street. He got

4 into the car park, saw Jack Duddy's body and got to the

5 south of the wall in the car park parallel to block 2;

6 exited through the block 2 and 3 alleyway, saw

7 Michael Bradley shot in front of him, helped

8 Michael Bradley round the corner and himself crawled

9 round the gap between blocks 2 and 3 and then ran into

10 the Joseph Place alleyway, keeping his head well down.

11 At paragraph 29, he says this:

12 "I was not feeling very brave at all at this

13 point and although it is hard for me to say it now, my

14 overriding feeling was that I had to get out of there

15 and get somewhere safe and that this was more important

16 than seeing to Michael Bradley and Pius McCarron.

17 I crawled through the gap between block 2 and 3 and

18 then ran into the alleyway that runs along the south

19 side of Joseph Place. This alleyway had a low wall on

20 the east side and as I ran into it I kept well down.

21 This was because other people who were in this alleyway

22 and in the general area were now shouting that there

23 was shooting coming from the walls."

24 Charles Morrison, a member of the executive

25 organising committee of NICRA, gives very similar


Page 58


1 evidence of such warnings. We need not turn it up, it

2 is at AM427.

3 John Campbell, whose evidence we saw last

4 week at C14, we need not look up either. He also

5 recalls that when he got through the gap between blocks

6 2 and 3, Patrick Walsh -- the man who went out to

7 Patrick Doherty -- shouted to him a warning that there

8 was shooting from the walls. Don Campbell, whose

9 evidence is at AC8.2, said that he ran with William

10 McKinney from the southeast corner of Glenfada Park

11 North to the gable end at the south of block 1. Then

12 at paragraph 10, the bottom half of the page, he says

13 this:

14 "Looking southeast, I could see a group of

15 people at the point I have marked F on the attached map

16 [he is looking southeast from the gable end of Glenfada

17 Park North]. I heard someone shout from that group

18 that another person had been shot there. Together with

19 William McKinney and three others I ran across

20 Rossville Street towards the group at point F [at the

21 bottom of block 1]. As we ran across the street

22 I heard gunfire which seemed to be coming from above

23 us, i.e. the southeast. We stood at about point F. As

24 we stood there, the body of a young man was carried

25 from the direction of the main entrance of block 1 of


Page 59


1 the Rossville flats south, then east around the corner

2 of the southern gable end of block 1, and laid down at

3 about point G [that is in the spot where then somebody

4 called out 'They are shooting from the wall, they are

5 lay]. Suddenly a rush of people came south through the

6 gap between blocks 1 and 2 of the Rossville flats

7 heading towards us. All the time I could hear shooting

8 coming from the car park area of the Rossville flats

9 and from the Glenfada Park North area.

10 "11. As the rush of people came through the

11 gap I ran with William McKinney and a couple of others

12 south towards the gardens northwest of Joseph Place.

13 We took cover behind what might have been some rubble

14 or a small stone construction in the approximate

15 position marked H [that is the Threepenny Bits

16 position]. We were kneeling down, keeping low and

17 huddled fairly close together. We were facing

18 northwest towards Glenfada Park. I remember that

19 William McKinney was well-dressed. He was wearing a

20 shirt and tie and a car coat, which I think may have

21 been grey. He was wearing glasses.

22 "12. There was a further commotion at point

23 J opposite us at the eastern, main entrance to the car

24 park. People were crowding over something or someone

25 but we could not tell what was going on. William


Page 60


1 McKinney, who had a camera with him and was taking

2 photographs, wanted to get back to point J. He made

3 three attempts to get up and run over there. I pulled

4 him down twice and someone else pulled him down a third

5 time. The shooting continued, but was not quite as

6 intense."

7 Forgive me a moment. I seem to have got a

8 bit out of place. I am sorry; the evidence of Don

9 Campbell is interesting and we have seen some of it

10 before, but it seems to have crept in at a spot to

11 which it does not relate. I think for the present

12 purposes it does not take us any further.

13 There are a number of witnesses who speak of

14 running along the alleyway and hearing shouts and cries

15 of people around them that there was shooting from the

16 walls. Again we do not need to turn them up, but they

17 include Michael Bridge at AB83, Anthony Harkin at AH11,

18 Desmond Kyle at AK42 and Paul McDaid at AM173.

19 Then coming out of the south exit of the

20 alleyway, we may look at the evidence of William

21 McClements at AM108.4 where, at paragraph 17, he says

22 this:

23 "When I reached the steps at the southern end

24 of the alleyway, there was a man sitting on them with

25 his back to the retaining wall. He was looking up at


Page 61


1 the city walls and telling people when it was safe to

2 cross Fahan Street since he said that there was firing

3 from the walls. The man at the steps was directing

4 people to cross Fahan Street one by one. When it came

5 to my turn he said to me that I should run like mad

6 over Fahan Street into St Columb's Wells. When

7 I crossed Fahan Street I did not look up to the city

8 walls and do not recall hearing or seeing any shots."

9 To similar effect, if we go to AM92.3, we

10 will find the evidence of Rose McCartney, who was in a

11 house in Joseph Place. We can take that up at AM92.5.

12 At paragraph 24 at the second sentence she says:

13 "I ran past the people in the garden and out

14 of the garden on to Rossville Street. I turned left

15 (south) and continued to run south alongside

16 Joseph Place (on the Rossville Street side). As I ran

17 I could see more people crouched down behind the iron

18 railings and small brick walls surrounding some of the

19 other small gardens in Joseph Place which fronted on to

20 Rossville Street. Ahead of me I could see the civil

21 rights lorry still parked at Free Derry Corner.

22 I could see people crouched down near the lorry and

23 other people crouched down near St Columb's Wells.

24 "25. As I ran alongside Joseph Place

25 I passed a tree (or trees) and at that point I heard a


Page 62


1 thud on the ground in front of me. I could see

2 something lying there on the ground and as I came

3 towards it I saw that it was a dead bird. I remember

4 thinking 'Oh my God they are shooting everywhere and

5 everything, even the birds'. The shooting continued

6 and I tried to crouch down as I was running. I kept

7 running because I had a fear of lying on the ground and

8 never being able to get up again.

9 "26 I ran to the southwest corner of the

10 south building of Joseph Place. I then ran south

11 across the open space between Joseph Place and Fahan

12 Street towards St Columb's Wells. As I ran I heard

13 someone say 'Get that wee girl out of the way'.

14 I think that I also heard someone say 'They are

15 shooting from the walls'.

16 "27. As I ran across Fahan Street, a man

17 came up from behind me and put his arms around my waist

18 and guided me down behind a car that was parked

19 alongside the south kerb on Fahan Street. I do not

20 know where the person who pulled me down behind the car

21 had come from..."

22 "28. The front of the car that I was pulled

23 down behind was pointing towards Free Derry Corner and

24 the back was pointing towards the city walls. I think

25 that it was a small car and it may have been light


Page 63


1 coloured. I remember that I was crouched down between

2 the front passenger side door and the kerb. As well as

3 the man who had pulled me down there were other men

4 crouching behind the car too. I do not remember how

5 many men there were or who were they were or what they

6 looked like.

7 "29. The man who pulled me down kept hold of

8 me and I was forced to stay crouched behind the car.

9 As I crouched I was facing Free Derry Corner. The

10 shooting continued. I remember thinking that the

11 shooting was still coming from behind me from the

12 direction of Rossville Street. However I remember

13 hearing people say that there was shooting from the

14 city walls. Although I could hear shots all around

15 I did not actually see any bullets hitting anything.

16 "30. I was crouched behind the car for just

17 seconds before the man who had been holding me let me

18 go. As soon as he released me I was up and away.

19 I knew that I was practically home and I wanted to get

20 there as fast as possible. I ran out to the east of

21 the parked car towards St Columb's Wells. When I got

22 to the corner of Fahan Street and St Columb's Wells

23 I turned right into the St Columb's Wells.

24 "31. At the northwest corner of St Columb's

25 Wells I remember seeing men either getting in or


Page 64


1 getting out of the stationary car. I do not know what

2 they were doing and I cannot remember how many men

3 there were or what they looked like.

4 "32. I ran south down St Columb's Wells.

5 When I was about halfway down the road I remember

6 seeing people appear at house doors shouting 'What is

7 happening?' As I ran I passed a gap between the houses

8 along St Columb's Wells which affords an unrestricted

9 view of the city walls. As I was about to pass that

10 gap, I remember someone shouting that there was

11 shooting from the city walls. Because of that

12 I crouched down as I ran past the gap between the

13 buildings. As I ran more and more people were coming

14 out into the street to discuss what was happening."

15 There is also evidence, again which I do not

16 think we need to look up but simply to note at this

17 stage, that warnings about shooting from the walls were

18 given in other areas such as in the

19 Lisfannon Park/Fahan Street West area. In this

20 category may be found the evidence of Dermott Carlin,

21 AC32, paragraph 17; Seamus Doherty, AS102, paragraph 6;

22 James Bosco McCafferty, AM59, paragraph 23; Derek

23 McFeeley, AM217; Craig Moore, AM41, paragraph 18; and

24 Andrew Barr, AB12.

25 That brings me to the end of what I want to


Page 65


1 say for the present purposes about the walls and Free

2 Derry Corner. What I want to turn to now are what

3 might be described as engagements outside the main

4 catalogue of events of the day, that is to say the

5 evidence from soldiers of firing other than in the

6 centre of activity in Rossville Street, Glenfada Park,

7 Abbey Park and the like. Some of it we have seen in

8 different connections and in part already and some of

9 it is new. It concerns soldiers AA, AB, AC and AD, as

10 well as soldiers X, Y and Z. I take the evidence in

11 approximately the sequence of time over which the

12 shooting in question is said to have occurred.

13 I begin with Soldier AA, who was one of those

14 at Barrack Street. He was a sergeant in the

15 1st Battalion of the Royal Anglian Regiment on duty at

16 the Barrack Street barrier. We have seen it before,

17 but it might be helpful to look at it again. If we

18 look at P216 we will see a contemporary, i.e. 1972,

19 photograph of the spot in question. Barrack Street is

20 the street that I am pointing to now. Pitt Street,

21 which leads off to the north, is not shown very well on

22 this photograph, but it is approximately in the

23 position that I am pointing to. Barrack Street leads

24 out into an area which once had houses, but which, at

25 the time in question, was empty and waste. It leads


Page 66


1 out into Charlotte Place and Charlotte Street. On the

2 left-hand side as you look at the photograph there is

3 Joyce Street. The street that I am now pointing to is

4 Long Tower Street, which leads past the Long Tower

5 Church.

6 The barrier came across Barrack Street and

7 there was an Armoured Personnel Carrier with its back

8 end in Pitt Street and facing into Barrack Street

9 itself. The evidence of Soldier AA may be found at

10 Day 16, page 86. He had described on the map where his

11 position was. At B he was asked this:

12 "Question: Can you show on the map

13 whereabouts you were?

14 Answer: This is our Platoon barricade; it

15 came from Pitt Street across Barrack Street and blocked

16 the whole road across, but we did have one or two

17 soldiers forward of the barricade towards

18 Charlotte Place."

19 If we go to D:

20 "Question: Come round to about teatime was

21 there any firing that you heard?

22 Answer: I heard one single high velocity

23 shot that came above our position from about Lecky Road

24 where the gas works was ... approximately 16.00 or

25 16.05.


Page 67


1 Question: Had you heard any sound of rioting

2 in any other part of the city that day?

3 Answer: No ... That was the first I seen.

4 Question: It came over your head. Did you

5 try to find out who had fired it?

6 Answer: Yes, I tried to locate it by the

7 methods we use in the forces -- crack of the gun -- and

8 I judged it from Lecky Road and a range of about 350

9 metres.

10 Question: Could you see anyone when you

11 looked?

12 Answer: No.

13 Question: Had you had some warning before

14 then that there were any gunmen in the area?

15 Answer: Several civilians coming through

16 from chapel had informed us very quietly and discreetly

17 that there were in fact three gunmen, one person

18 stated, behind the Charlotte Place walls and down the

19 side of the road. I myself did not see them at this

20 stage.

21 Question: Having been warned by civilians

22 did you move down the north side of Barrack Street

23 towards Charlotte Place?

24 Answer: My duties as Platoon Sergeant were

25 to check sometimes on the sentries we have posted and


Page 68


1 I was moving forward just to check them again when in

2 fact I saw my first.

3 Question: What did you see then?

4 Answer: At approximately 16.15, as I was

5 moving down the north side of Barrack Street towards

6 the end of the Charlotte Place junction, a gunman came

7 round the corner of St Columb's Walk over a small

8 barricade and fired at me.

9 Question: How close did he get to you?

10 Answer: At the same time I fired at him and

11 his round struck the side of the wall and ricochetted

12 by my right ear and went down the road towards the rest

13 of the Platoon.

14 Question: I do not think that really tells

15 me how far away from you he was?

16 Answer: I am sorry, 65 metres

17 approximately ... I fired instantaneous because my

18 weapon had been cocked earlier. When the first high

19 velocity shot came over I cocked my weapon and put one

20 round in the breech, which is normal practice.

21 Question: When you fired how could you fire

22 it? From what position?

23 Answer: It was a very fast and hurried shot

24 which I had to do to save my life at this time because

25 if I had not fired from the hip I would now be dead.


Page 69


1 I fired from my left hip because I am a left hand shot.

2 Question: Had you time in this confrontation

3 to raise it to your shoulder?

4 Answer: There was no time at all; I would

5 have been dead by then.

6 Question: Did you hit him?

7 Answer: I did not observe my strike. The

8 gunman in question threw himself behind a wall which

9 runs behind St Columba's Walk."

10 Just above F he was asked this:

11 "Question: Could you see whether you might

12 even have wounded him?

13 Answer: No. It is my opinion I probably

14 missed him completely ... He had a sort of lightish

15 brown anorak, a quilted type worn by skiers most times,

16 a white handkerchief round his neck and he had very

17 dark, I should say black, longish hair.

18 Question: Did you move forward again two or

19 three yards to see if you could find him?

20 Answer: I moved approximately two yards

21 forward from my location.

22 Question: At that part of the town are there

23 a number of houses which are derelict where all the

24 windows and doors have been bricked up or blocked up

25 then somebody called out 'They are shooting from the


Page 70


1 wall, they are?

2 Answer: That is correct.

3 Question: Nevertheless are there, in those

4 bricked-up windows and doors, openings that have been

5 made by someone which are used by people for firing?

6 Answer: Yes. They are gun ports, I should

7 say ...

8 Question: Did you, as you moved forward, see

9 or come under fire again?

10 Answer: At the same time as I was moving

11 forward, I came under fire from the right from a low

12 building bricked up with a gun port at the base of it.

13 Question: The base of the doorway?

14 Answer: The base of the doorway;

15 approximately 3 feet up from the floor it had been

16 knocked away completely.

17 Question: How big are these gun ports?

18 Answer: The one in question at the time is

19 a fairly big one; it is the width of the doorway and,

20 I would say, 3 feet up from the floor.

21 Question: How wide?

22 Answer: I should say, with reference to this

23 table before me, from the top of it to the bottom. In

24 fact behind it there is a broken wall inside the

25 building. You could see a fairly good silhouette.


Page 71


1 When he fired at me the first thing I saw was the flash

2 of his muzzle -- which you get off a carbine,

3 especially in the dark -- which I fired at.

4 Question: You saw the flash of his carbine.

5 Did any shots come in your direction?

6 Answer: One hit the road in front of me; one

7 hit the wall; and afterwards I found out that a soldier

8 in my Platoon was hit by the third round, which went

9 through his flak jacket left to right [presumably

10 Soldier 042].

11 Question: We have heard of that soldier

12 before. Was he behind you?

13 Answer: Ten yards distant, but very little

14 from the gunman's point of view; he would be more or

15 less behind me, say from my left shoulder.

16 Question: That was three shots. How many

17 did you fire back at him?

18 Answer: I fired approximately three shots at

19 this moment. On the third shot he was seen to slump.

20 In my mind I thought I had achieved my aim and

21 I switched my fire to a further gun port where I heard

22 a Tommy gun being fired up Long Tower Street.

23 Question: Did you hit that gunman or not?

24 Answer: I am quite sure I hit him; whether

25 I killed him or not, he laid still after the third


Page 72


1 shot, no more reaction at all.

2 Question: No more firing?

3 Answer: None at all.

4 Question: Then you say you fired again at

5 another gun port?

6 Answer: There are two gun ports being

7 knocked in the side of the wall and one also in the

8 doorway, which is in the same building, which is marked

9 on my map of the fire plan. Immediately I neutralized

10 the man with the carbine a Tommy gun was fired, which

11 I believe was into a wall, which they do sometimes, and

12 another time -- I reasoned he probably fired up

13 Long Tower Street towards the other Platoon which is up

14 that area. I fired two shots into two gun ports, which

15 in my own opinion I considered the gunman to be behind.

16 Question: Was that one shot each?

17 Answer: Two well aimed shots at both gun

18 ports.

19 Question: Did you see whether there was

20 anyone in there?

21 Answer: I could not see at that stage any

22 body lying there or any person. The point is, after

23 I fired the last two shots there was no more firing

24 from that Tommy gun.

25 Question: Were you then ordered by your


Page 73


1 Platoon commander to withdraw?

2 Answer: Yes.

3 Question: And you then found this private

4 who had a bullet in his flak jacket?

5 Answer: Yes.

6 Question: About 35 minutes or so after those

7 incidents did you look back at the gun port where you

8 had seen the gunman and fired at him?

9 Answer: Yes, I did.

10 Question: Was he still there or had he gone?

11 Answer: Up to approximately 35 minutes

12 I could still see the shape of his body lying in the

13 bottom of the doorway, but I was instructed by my

14 Platoon commander not to take any further action on

15 this."

16 Then he identified various lines on a

17 trajectory map. That map is at Q1. The sequence as

18 I understand his evidence, is this:

19 He, according to this map, was at the corner

20 of Barrack Street and Charlotte Place. Pitt Street we

21 can see slightly to the right. The first shot that he

22 fires is the one fired from the hip at the gunman who

23 appears at the corner of St Columba's Walk, not to be

24 confused with Columbcille and Joyce Street; that is the

25 firing back instantaneously from the left hip.


Page 74


1 He then fires three shots at the gunman who

2 fires three shots at him, at the remains of a house in

3 Long Tower Street. Then he fires two shots at two gun

4 ports in what appears to be either the same house or

5 next door, which are the next two spots marked 2, 3 and

6 4 on the map, which are the spots at the end of the

7 three trajectories shown on his plan.

8 This witness has also made a statement to

9 this Tribunal. If we go to temporary statement bundle

10 67.5 he says at paragraph 25 -- this all occurs,

11 I should have explained, after the arrival of the

12 Cortinas with Joseph Friel and Gerard Donaghy at

13 barrier 20:

14 "25. Approximately 30 minutes after the car

15 incident I noticed some Protestants coming from the

16 Chapel. I was on the northern side of Barrack Street

17 which is at point A on the map attached. A man, aged

18 about 50, told me to be careful because there were some

19 bad buggers around the corner. I cocked my rifle in

20 readiness.

21 "26. I walked northwest in the direction of

22 the wasteground along Barrack Street until I reached

23 the junction of Barrack Street and Charlotte Place.

24 I looked to my left and was surprised to see a man at

25 the point marked D on the attached map. He was


Page 75


1 standing at the corner of Joyce Street and Windmill

2 Terrace. He had long hair and was about 5'8" to 5'10"

3 and was aged about 24 to 25. He looked surprised to

4 see me. I was carrying a bolt action sniper rifle.

5 I had 10 rounds in it, one up the spout. When I saw

6 him he was aiming an M1 carbine. We both fired almost

7 at the same time. I think he was a left hand shot,

8 like me. His bullet flew by my ear and hit the

9 brickwork of a wall. Soldier 042 was on the southern

10 side of Barrack Street. He was hit in the flak jacket

11 by the bullet. This must have been from a distance of

12 approximately 65 to 70 metres. If his flak jacket

13 could be located that could prove the distance.

14 Soldier 042 was hit and fell flat on the floor.

15 I remember his helmet rolling off down the hill. The

16 gunman ducked back behind the wall. I knew I had not

17 hit him as I saw him retire. We had fired one shot

18 each."

19 If you go back to Q1, what he is describing

20 is a gunman coming round the corner of Joyce Street and

21 Windmill Terrace, which is not quite the same as coming

22 round from the corner of St Columba's Walk and

23 Joyce Street. At 67.5 he then says:

24 "27. I moved forward to see if I could get

25 another shot at the gunman who had fired at me. He was


Page 76


1 by then out of sight. Suddenly I was engaged from a

2 gun port by a second gunman. He was standing at the

3 point marked E on the attached map [that,

4 unfortunately, has not been attached to this

5 statement]. The second gunman fired at me as I was

6 standing. I saw the muzzle flash of an M1 carbine and

7 saw the blaze. I had my rifle at my left shoulder with

8 my sight on it. I could see his silhouette through the

9 gun port and aimed straight at him. I fired about

10 three or four shots. The shots were exchanged in about

11 three or four seconds. He went down on the floor in

12 a prone position against the wall. He did not move

13 from the position so I knew I had shot him. I said to

14 Lieutenant 145 'Should I get him?' but he said 'No' and

15 I was pulled back.

16 "28. Suddenly there was a burst of fire to

17 my right. This came from two other gun ports in

18 Long Tower Street at the position marked F. It was

19 fire from a Thompson machine-gun. The burst of fire

20 was perhaps five or six each round. I fired two or

21 three shots into each gun port. After I fired, the

22 shots stopped. I then heard Lieutenant 145 shouting at

23 me to pull back.

24 "29. By this time it was getting dark and

25 must have been about 5.00 pm."


Page 77


1 It will be recalled that Mary Holland of

2 The Observer printed a story which appears at M42.2,

3 which we have seen once but can usefully look at again

4 at this stage, in which she describes this:

5 "There was one IRA sniper wounded here last

6 Sunday. He was a member of the Official IRA and he was

7 posted in an empty house on the corner of Cooke Street

8 and Joyce Street with orders to cover Bishop Street.

9 "He was wounded by a soldier returning fire

10 from a house opposite after he himself had fired at a

11 soldier in the street beneath. He thinks his bullet

12 grazed the soldier's flak jacket, but did not injure

13 him.

14 "The army may well think that they killed

15 him. He was hit in the thigh by one bullet and another

16 ricochetted off a wall to graze the flesh of his eye.

17 By the kind of coincidence common here, the soldier who

18 fired on him was posted on the roof of the sniper's

19 sister-in-law's house and she heard him reporting back

20 to his Commanding Officer 'I think we got him, sir, we

21 saw him fall'.

22 "I talked to the sniper several times this

23 week while he nursed his gunshot wound in the bedroom

24 of the new Northern Ireland Housing Trust house into

25 which his family recently moved."


Page 78


1 So it looks highly likely that the gunman who

2 AA fired at and whom he thought he hit, because he saw

3 a body slumped in the doorway about 35 minutes later,

4 is the gunman that is referred to in Mary Holland's

5 article and whom The Sunday Times have identified as

6 Micky Doherty, though there are some things that do not

7 quite tie in. The article describes him as being

8 posted in an empty house on the corner of Cooke Street

9 and Joyce Street and also refers to the coincidence

10 that he was fired on by somebody posted on a roof.

11 Sergeant AA was not posted on the roof; nor, so far as

12 I am aware, was anybody who fired. If we go back to

13 Q1, we will see that the corner of Cooke Street and

14 Joyce Street is where I am pointing, and the place at

15 which Sergeant AA said he fired and hit somebody is a

16 house in Long Tower Street.

17 That brings me to another soldier and another

18 shot. I wonder whether that might be a convenient

19 moment to adjourn.

20 LORD SAVILLE: Certainly. We will come back

21 to 12.50, please

22 (The luncheon adjournment)

23 (12.55 pm)

24 MR CLARKE: With AA was Soldier AB. His

25 statement is at bundle B916. He was a private. He


Page 79


1 says:

2 "At about 12.00 I was deployed with my

3 Platoon at the junction of Charlotte Street and

4 Barrack Street. I was posted as a sentry in a doorway

5 on the north side of Barrack Street. I was observing

6 the wasteground between Charlotte Street and

7 St Columb's Walk when at about 16.15 hours I saw a man

8 step round the corner at the junction of St Columb's

9 Walk and Joyce Street and fire a shot at AA of my

10 unit. The round fired by the gunman bounced off a wall

11 and hit one of our men, passing from side to side

12 through his flak jacket and grazing his chest. He

13 collapsed and I saw him fall. The approximate distance

14 of this gunman was about 100 metres. I think the

15 estimate of 70 metres given in my statement of

16 1st February is a little short [that is his RMP

17 statement].

18 "3. AA fired a round at this man. I fired

19 one round also. I did not observe my round strike.

20 The gunman had long black hair, was about five foot six

21 inches tall, wore a white handkerchief round his neck

22 and a light brown anorak."

23 At 918 he says:

24 "I refer to my statement made on 1st February

25 1972. In line 10 I wish to add that the round fired by


Page 80


1 the gunman bounced off a wall and hit one of our men.

2 It passed from side to side going through his flak

3 jacket and grazing his chest. He collapsed and I saw

4 him fall.

5 "2. I think my estimate of 70 metres is

6 a little short. The approximate distance was about 100

7 metres."

8 I think that must have been incorporated into

9 the statement we have just read, since those words all

10 appear in it. That is the soldiers who say they fired

11 at Barrack Street. Then AB has also made a new

12 statement which does not take the matter any further,

13 indeed, he cannot even recall firing any shots back at

14 the gunman in question.

15 That brings me to Soldiers Y and X.

16 LORD SAVILLE: Are these shots, I cannot

17 remember now, included in the 108 or not?

18 MR CLARKE: No. The 108 are the Support

19 Company of the Parachute Regiment. That brings me to

20 two soldiers who say that they shot at the Brandywell

21 location. One of those was Soldier Y, Widgery

22 Soldier Y, a gunner with the Royal Artillery attached

23 to the 22nd Light Air Defence Regiment. He was at

24 a combined observation post and strong point at the

25 Brandywell tactical location. That location appears at


Page 81


1 BB849. Down at the southwest of the area that we have

2 been concerned with, the tactical location is near an

3 old MEX garage off the Letterkenny Road at its junction

4 with Foyle Road, which is where I am pointing to, and

5 to the south of the Brandywell recreation ground.

6 If we go to P212, we can find the general

7 area that he is talking about. The Brandywell

8 recreation ground we can see in the foreground. The

9 tactical location is, as I understand it, approximately

10 where I am pointing with the blue arrow. If you go to

11 213, the next photograph, you get a shot of the

12 junction between Anne Street and the Foyle Road and

13 I think that the relevant location is somewhere near

14 what I take to be the canopy of a garage in the far

15 left-hand side of the photograph, about halfway down.

16 We have discovered some new photographs which

17 show the Brandywell location. I am afraid they have

18 not been scanned yet, but they will give a clearer

19 picture when we have them available.

20 If we go to Widgery transcript Day 16, page

21 82, he was asked:

22 "Question: On the 30th January this year you

23 was given some special duties at Brandywell tactical

24 location?

25 Answer: Yes. My duty was to be situated to


Page 82


1 watch the area where the march was going to be.

2 "Mr Underhill: It is off the model to the

3 south. You reach it by going down Rossville Street

4 into the continuation of Lecky Road and right on.

5 I think it is constructed in an old MEX garage, this

6 tactical location?

7 Answer: Yes."

8 The bottom half of page. He had an SLR. At

9 E he said that he took up a position just outside the

10 tactical location, about 25 metres from the wall. He

11 was kneeling at the corner of the building on the

12 ground and he had a sniperscope. At F:

13 "Answer: We were to watch that nobody got

14 round the back through this location, the back of our

15 site."

16 The next page:

17 "Question: Supposing there was any firing on

18 the strong point, what were you to do?

19 Answer: If the person firing was spotted, to

20 return fire ...

21 "Question: Did there come a time when you

22 heard some shots that attracted your attention?

23 Answer: Yes ... two" of them.

24 "Question: Which direction did they come as

25 far as you could tell?


Page 83


1 Answer: Somewhere around Creggan Heights.

2 Question: Do you know where they landed?

3 Answer: No, I did not.

4 Question: Where were they directed towards,

5 as far as you could tell?

6 Answer: Our location.

7 Question: What sort of time was it?

8 Answer: About 16.40.

9 Question: Did you speak or did anybody speak

10 to you about where the firer of those shots might be?

11 Answer: I was told later on by another

12 gunner where those shots had roughly come from.

13 Question: Where was the place that was

14 indicated to you?

15 Answer: It was a pathway which is bordered

16 by bushes halfway up the Creggan Heights slope.

17 Question: How far was it from the pathway

18 where you were told the shots had come from to your

19 post?

20 Answer: About 300 metres.

21 Question: How high are those bushes on the

22 path?

23 Answer: About three feet."

24 Then he said that he kept observation on the

25 area. At some stage he cocked his weapon and he was


Page 84


1 watching to see if he could spot the person who was

2 firing. He saw somebody in the location. He said

3 this:

4 "Answer: I saw a man from his chest upwards

5 appear above the bush. He raised a rifle or what

6 I thought to be a rifle at the time. I waited for

7 a while to see if he was going to fire. He then fired,

8 which confirmed he had a firearm, and I fired as he

9 fired his second shot.

10 Question: He fired and that confirmed to you

11 that he had some firearm with him. Do you know where

12 his shot came?

13 Answer: Yes," and it struck the wall on his

14 right:

15 "Question: You saw him with the weapon fire

16 that shot?

17 Answer: Yes.

18 Question: What position was he in?

19 Answer: I could not quite tell you; I just

20 saw the chest upwards.

21 Question: Was he on or near the path ...?

22 Answer: The path is behind the bushes;

23 I should think he was on it.

24 Question: You just saw the top part of his

25 body?


Page 85


1 Answer: Yes.

2 Question: What concealed the rest of his

3 body?

4 Answer: The bushes.

5 Question: How many shots did he fire?

6 Answer: Four altogether.

7 Question: Did you see any flash?

8 Answer: Yes.

9 Question: Or any smoke?

10 Answer: Yes.

11 Question: Could you identify what sort of

12 weapon he was firing with?

13 Answer: No, it was too far away to identify

14 what weapon it was...", but it was a rifle. He said he

15 aimed for the chest:

16 "Answer: I did not actually see it strike;

17 I saw him fall backwards.

18 "Question: Did you continue to watch the

19 area afterwards?

20 Answer: Yes.

21 Question: Did you see him again?

22 Answer: No.

23 Question: Or any other person?

24 Answer: No."

25 Then he was invited to say where that was and


Page 86


1 he identified a map which, I believe, is the map which

2 is at Q4. Q4 reveals where he was talking about. He

3 is Y, that is to say the soldier that we are talking

4 about is Y, and he describes himself as being close to

5 the feature marked as "tank" on the chart of the

6 location, and the target as being on a path that leads

7 up from the road behind Lone Moor Gardens. I think we

8 can identify exactly where that is because if you note

9 that we are looking at Lone Moor Road and Anne Street

10 and a road that leads off Lone Moor Road, which is

11 unmarked on the plan, it is in fact I think called

12 Coach Road.

13 If we go back to the photograph, P213, we

14 will see Lone Moor Road, somebody has marked, and the

15 road which somebody has also marked as "Coach Road" and

16 the path would appear to be behind the bushes that one

17 can just see in the photograph, going up in the

18 direction that I am pointing. It is either that one or

19 possibly, I may have got my bearings slightly wrong, it

20 may be the path that is going up like that. That

21 appears perhaps to be more in line with the map. If we

22 go back to Q4, the path that is marked is the one that

23 I am highlighting now.

24 If we go back to Day 16, page 85, we will

25 see, the bottom half of the page, that at E he was


Page 87


1 asked this:

2 "Question: Would it surprise you to know it

3 has been stated that it was a burst of automatic fire

4 which was supposed to come towards your position?

5 Answer: That was after the incident I am

6 talking about.

7 Question: How long after?

8 Answer: About five to ten minutes."

9 Mr Gibbens asks him:

10 "Question: Tell us about that: five or ten

11 minutes after that incident that you opened fire at,

12 a burst of automatic fire was heard?

13 Answer: Yes.

14 Question: From where?

15 Answer: I could not see from my position; it

16 was from the other side of the road.

17 Question: Towards your position or away from

18 it?

19 Answer: It was on this side of the road,

20 towards here.

21 Question: Towards you from the other side of

22 the road?

23 Answer: Yes.

24 Question: What sort of automatic fire was

25 it, do you know?


Page 88


1 Answer: I could not really tell.

2 Question: How long did it last or how many

3 rounds, do you think?

4 Answer: About ten rounds."

5 That is dealt with in the evidence of

6 Soldier X, who did not give oral evidence to Widgery,

7 but who gave a statement which appears at 841, where he

8 said this:

9 "On Sunday, 30th January 1972 I was, together

10 with a sergeant and a driver out of the Royal Core of

11 Transport, positioned between two observation posts in

12 a sandbag emplacement directly behind the forecourt of

13 the MEX garage in Letterkenny Road, Londonderry. The

14 two observation posts were on the edge of the old dairy

15 to our left and the beginning of the garage forecourt

16 on my right. I had a vision of 200 metres either side

17 of me and 100 metres in front. My complete arc of fire

18 was 180 degrees. Earlier that day I was told that the

19 garage had been fired at and it was my task to keep

20 observation out for trouble in general and in

21 particular for gunmen. We took up position about

22 midday. I was armed with an SLR and 10 rounds of

23 ammunition.

24 "2. From the time I took up position gangs

25 of youths threw stones and bottles in my direction and


Page 89


1 this occurred consistently throughout the afternoon.

2 From 1 o'clock onwards, during the time I was in this

3 position about 60 or 70 high velocity shots were fired

4 in our direction from the Creggan Heights and

5 cemetery. The stoning was also carrying on

6 intermittently.

7 "3. About half past three, a burst of

8 automatic fire which I would say was about 8 or 10

9 shots went overhead in the direction of the river.

10 I could see the direction from where these shots had

11 come between two derelict buildings to my left on the

12 opposite side of Letterkenny Road. The corrugated iron

13 had been placed over what was left of the roof and

14 formed a sort of tunnel. This tunnel was about 10 or

15 12 feet square and I could see the profile of a man

16 leaning against the side of the tunnel. I am positive

17 that this was the direction from which the shots had

18 come.

19 "4. Immediately after the firing had taken

20 place I saw this man run down the tunnel away from my

21 direction and I fired one aimed shot at him. By this

22 time he had reached the other end of the tunnel and

23 I saw him fall. It was a very clear day and I had

24 a direct view of the tunnel.

25 "5. I could not describe the man I shot at


Page 90


1 since the tunnel was about 80 metres from the position

2 I was in and he only appeared as a silhouette in the

3 tunnel. I should add that what directed my attention

4 to the area where shooting had come from was the fact

5 that children who were playing there quickly

6 disappeared about two minutes before the shooting came

7 from the direction of the tunnel. When I say

8 'Children' I mean that they were aged between 8 years

9 old to about 16 years old. They were about 20 in

10 number and had been throwing stones in my direction

11 since I had taken up position."

12 If we look at Q4 again we will see that in

13 addition to depicting the shot of Y, it also depicts

14 the shot of X and his target is in between two

15 buildings on Anne Road. If we go back --

16 LORD SAVILLE: What is the scale of this map,

17 what is that distance?

18 MR CLARKE: I do not know. I think that

19 distance is about 50 or 60 yards.

20 LORD SAVILLE: It cannot be very much, can

21 it?

22 MR CLARKE: It cannot be very much. If we go

23 to P213, he appears to be describing a shot that goes

24 to the right-hand side of the third house from the

25 corner, which looks like that approximately; that seems


Page 91


1 to be the area he is talking about. Those are the

2 shots at the Brandywell location. This witness has

3 also given a statement to this Inquiry. It appears at

4 B843.002, where he says at paragraph 7:

5 "I do not recall now in any detail what the

6 MEX garage looked like or what buildings were situated

7 in the immediate vicinity of the garage. I have been

8 shown an aerial photograph of the Brandywell district

9 and I am not now able to locate where the MEX garage

10 was or identify where I was situated on the day."

11 He said:

12 "In short, I have only a very vague

13 recollection of the area."

14 Paragraph 9:

15 "At some stage during the afternoon the civil

16 rights march was picking up steam and I remember that

17 there were a large number of people that we could see

18 from our position marching away from us towards the

19 town centre. Soon after the march had begun, perhaps

20 only an hour later, we heard gunshots for the first

21 time. I cannot recall exactly how many shots were

22 fired, but there were both some single rifle shots and

23 also some automatic firing going on. I was unable to

24 see where this firing was coming from as it was some

25 distance away and there was also a considerable amount


Page 92


1 of other background noise at the time. It was not

2 possible to identify the source of the sound with the

3 noise of police sirens and the crowd going on around

4 us. I would say that there were not many shots fired,

5 but as they were in the distance it was difficult to

6 tell. It is possible that some of these gunshots may

7 have been the sounds of exhausts backfiring, but I did

8 think they were rifle shots. I was able to distinguish

9 rifle shots from the sound of an automatic weapon.

10 SLRs were incapable of automatic fire.

11 "10. After hearing these shots everyone was

12 immediately on their toes for the possibility of sniper

13 fire at our position. One particular set of derelict

14 buildings came under close attention as it was the sort

15 of place a sniper would hide. This was opposite our

16 position some 50 to 75 metres away and comprised

17 a derelict building. At the top of the building was

18 a sort of walkway going through the building from the

19 other side. There was enough room for someone to go

20 through at a crouch. There was lots of corrugated iron

21 sheeting about. I kept watching this position and

22 I saw what looked like someone at a crouch position

23 coming or going along one of the tunnel or walkway

24 affairs. I told my superior, who came to look. We

25 agreed this was highly suspicious and that it could be


Page 93


1 someone with a gun.

2 "11. I fired a round but I do not recall

3 that anything in particular happened after that. We

4 kept close observation but saw no one. The incident

5 was reported on the radio. Though my recollection now

6 is not clear, I am fairly sure I was given an

7 instruction to fire, probably by the officer to whom

8 I reported my sighting, but I cannot recall who that

9 was. It was a single, aimed shot and I cannot recall

10 what happened as a result. Whoever (or whatever) it

11 was had disappeared. I saw no one fall over. There

12 was nothing at the time to indicate I had hit anyone,

13 nor do I know of any evidence that later came out that

14 I had hit anyone.

15 "12. I fired because the circumstance looked

16 very highly suspicious. I was aware of the Yellow Card

17 rules and that there would have been serious trouble if

18 I had fired a shot other than in accordance with the

19 Yellow Card and I am sure I fired within the rules. We

20 felt an immediate threat from the situation.

21 "13. There was another soldier in our

22 location who fired on that day. That was Soldier Y,

23 who was a marksman, the best shot in our unit. He was

24 a little distance away from me and he was armed with

25 a .303 rifle fitted with a telescopic sight. I had


Page 94


1 a standard issue SLR with no scope."

2 Then he goes on to deal with more general

3 matters. If you go to 825, there was a map attached to

4 his RMP statement which shows him firing in

5 approximately the same position, both as to where he is

6 and where he is firing to. Although his statement to

7 the Treasury Solicitor referred to firing at about half

8 past three, his earlier statement, see 2822, the bottom

9 half of the page, referred to a series of incidents

10 from 12 o'clock onwards. From about 1400 hours there

11 were between ten and twelve single high velocity shots

12 fired into the forecourt of the garage. About 16.45

13 hours, a burst of automatic fire was directed against

14 the garage forecourt. About six or seven shots were

15 fired in the burst. All apparently passed overhead.

16 Then he looked in the direction from which the shots

17 had come and saw the figure silhouetted against the

18 tunnel. So the original timing was 16.45 hours, which

19 may well be more accurate.

20 That is X and Y at the Brandywell. The next

21 two soldiers that we need to look at and have in fact

22 already seen, but need to revisit in this connection,

23 are soldiers AC and AD. If we look at B935, we will

24 find a composite map, composite in the sense that it

25 describes the position of both of them. AC was in


Page 95


1 a house at the junction of Long Tower Street, which is

2 the street that goes up in the direction that I am

3 pointing, and Howard Street, though the exact location

4 is not entirely clear since it seems to be just off the

5 map. AD was manning a barricade in a position

6 underneath the bastion, which is what I am pointing

7 out. If we go to B919, we will see the statement of

8 AC. What he said was this:

9 "I was deployed with other soldiers about

10 1230 hours ... to Long Tower Street, Londonderry.

11 I took up position in a derelict house on the corner of

12 Long Tower Street on the east side directly opposite

13 the junction with Howard Street. My orders were to

14 maintain an all round watch over the area to the best

15 of my position. I was armed with a SLR 7.62 millimetre

16 and a magazine with 20 rounds."

17 If you look at P223, you can get some

18 photographic idea of where he was, in that Long Tower

19 Street is, not surprisingly, the street that goes past

20 the Long Tower Church, up in a northerly direction.

21 Howard Street is the street that I am now pointing to.

22 That meets with Long Tower Street as you get to the lee

23 of the Royal Bastion. He describes himself as being in

24 a derelict house on the corner of Long Tower Street on

25 the east side, directly opposite the junction with


Page 96


1 Howard Street. The junction with Howard Street is

2 where I am pointing to and I assume when he says that

3 he was on the east side that he was indeed in one of

4 the houses on the east side of Long Tower Street. If

5 one looks at the overall features, one can see the gas

6 works behind Stanley's Walk in the foreground of the

7 photograph and the fields behind them.

8 If we go back BB919, he says this:

9 "Sometime about 1645 hours I was observing

10 the area of Celtic Park to the rear of the gasworks.

11 The ground of the playing fields is about level with

12 the top of the gasometers. As I looked towards the

13 gasometers I could see the edge of a hut or shed to the

14 left of the southern west gasometer. I had noticed

15 people moving into the area and had been paying

16 attention to these people as there had been firing from

17 somewhere to my front earlier in the afternoon.

18 "At that time I had not located any gunman's

19 position. As I watched I saw a man in an open space

20 between two of the huts. The distance between my

21 position and this man was about 450 to 500 metres.

22 I was using the normal iron sight on my rifle. It was

23 a very clear sunny day and the light was good. There

24 was no wind.

25 "I saw the man advance to the edge of a hut


Page 97


1 nearest to my position. I could not describe this man

2 fully as I could not see his face clearly at that

3 range. He appeared to be of average size. He was

4 wearing dark clothing but I could not describe this,

5 again because of the range. As I watched the man I saw

6 he was holding a long straight object in both hands.

7 He had hold of this object as if it were a rifle. He

8 raised his arms and took up a position corresponding to

9 a kneeling aim position. At the time he did this the

10 man was kneeling with one knee on the ground. As

11 I watched I saw a puff of smoke from the long straight

12 object and heard a sound as of a shot fired. I heard

13 the noise of a round passing overhead above my

14 position.

15 "I then fired two rounds at the man. My

16 first round was almost instantly after I saw the puff

17 of smoke from the end of the object the man was

18 holding. I did not see any result of my first shot and

19 then fired the second shot. The man had remained in

20 a kneeling position but after the second shot I saw the

21 man thrown backwards a short distance. The man lay on

22 the ground without moving. People came around the

23 corner of the hut to where the man lay and dragged him

24 away. I did not see what happened to the object he

25 aimed at me. The man was taken away towards the


Page 98


1 Lone Moor Road.

2 "Some 15 minutes later another man went to

3 the same place where I had shot the first man. This

4 man crawled and moved at a crouch. I kept him under

5 observation. He went to exactly the same position as

6 the first man. This second man appeared to be a young

7 man, to judge by the way he moved. As he was crawling

8 and crouched over I would not be able to describe him

9 at all. I could see that he had a jacket on which, by

10 the bulk and general shapelessness, looked like one of

11 the old [something or other] combat jackets. The man

12 was carrying a long, straight object identical to the

13 object the first man had had.

14 "I watched this man point the object towards

15 my position. As I watched I saw a puff of smoke from

16 the object the man was holding. I heard a report and

17 then I fired a total of three rounds. The first two

18 had no effect, but the third shot knocked the man to

19 one side. The man was standing upright at the time he

20 fired. I knocked him to his right with my shot.

21 "One man came around the corner of the hut

22 and recovered the body. I did not see what happened to

23 the weapon. The second man was taken away in the same

24 direction as the first.

25 "There was no more fire from the area of the


Page 99


1 gasometer's side of Celtic Park."

2 In short he fires five shots at two gunmen in

3 Celtic Park, both of which appear to connect and they

4 are taken off. This witness has made a statement to

5 this Tribunal. If we take temporary statement bundle

6 79.2, we will see that his recollection is now very

7 limited, the bottom half of the page, paragraph 15:

8 "We received instructions sometime during the

9 day, although I do not now precisely remember when, to

10 look out for a minibus consisting of gunmen. I think

11 we overheard this on the Colour Sergeant's radio.

12 "16. The first thing I clearly remember is

13 hearing automatic fire. It came from somewhat to the

14 right-hand side of us from the Bogside/William

15 Street/Bishop's Street area.

16 "17. It sounded like a Thompson

17 machine-gun. I heard one brief burst then a few

18 minutes later another burst of fire. This was the

19 first thing I heard all day.

20 "18. I know that I fired and hit two gunmen

21 during the day. I knew the terms of the Yellow Card

22 well and would only fire in accordance with it. I was

23 a good shot and customarily was employed in an

24 anti-sniper role. During my tour of Northern Ireland

25 I obtained the First Class Marksmanship Award. I also


Page 100


1 shot with the Battalion team.

2 "19. My memory of these incidents is not

3 clear. All I clearly remember is three men and

4 a couple of huts. These were, I think, near the

5 churchyard with the Creggan estate off to the left.

6 I remember seeing a gunman crouched down some distance

7 from me facing me. I could also see him aiming his gun

8 in our general direction. He fired towards us and

9 I fired two shots back and hit him. I can only recall

10 in general terms firing back at a second gunman:

11 "20. After I fired I remember the Colour

12 Sergeant came up to our position. I reported what had

13 happened. He said 'Well done'. I remember him saying

14 that he thought I had fired so fast that it sounded

15 like I was firing an automatic rifle.

16 "21. The next thing I remember is hearing

17 another soldier. I think Soldier AD shouted I got

18 him. I did not see his target. I assume he hit

19 another gunman. The Colour Sergeant went to his

20 position. I think there was quite a lot of noise and

21 firing at this time."

22 That brings me to Soldier AD. His account is

23 at B942. What that amounts to is this: he did not give

24 oral evidence to Lord Widgery. What he said was this,

25 this is his statement to the Treasury Solicitor:


Page 101


1 "I am a soldier in the First Royal Anglian

2 situated in Londonderry. On 30th January I was with

3 a detachment from my unit manning a barricade in

4 position across Nailor's Row and Long Tower Street

5 underneath the corner of the walls marked

6 'Double Bastion'. There is an army OP on this bastion

7 called, after the cannon there, 'the Roaring Meg'. My

8 duty was to act as a sniper and I had been issued with

9 20 rounds which I carried on my SLR. I had no

10 telescopic sight. Our general duty at the barricade

11 was to observe the march and to prevent marchers

12 passing. My own duty as sniper was to engage any

13 gunmen opening fire at us. We had not occupied a

14 position on this spot before.

15 "2. At about 1645 I saw a man run out of the

16 group of buildings standing on the corner of Westland

17 Street and Lecky Road. He ran from an archway, which

18 on map EM3 is shown as a covered way between buildings

19 numbers 5, 7, 9 and 2, 4, 6, 8. He was five foot ten

20 inches tall, of medium build, in his early twenties,

21 and was wearing a windcheater or anorak of a dark

22 colour.

23 "3. He jumped forward and raised what looked

24 like a .303 rifle to the aimed position. As he fired

25 in our direction I saw the muzzle flash and a puff of


Page 102


1 smoke and heard the round pass overhead.

2 "4. I fired two rounds at this man and saw

3 the second hit him and knock him off his feet.

4 "5. There was a crowd of about 40 in the

5 area. Some of them dragged his body into Meenan Square

6 behind the buildings. I did not see what happened to

7 the rifle. I saw a grey Ford Escort back into

8 Meenan Square and a short while later the crowd there

9 grew in size."

10 If you look at B935, you will find a map

11 which shows AD to be in a building in Howard Street,

12 though the description of his position is in

13 a barricade between Nailor's Row and Long Tower

14 Street. But his target is at the walkway between the

15 buildings that one can see just below the Bogside Inn.

16 This witness has made a new statement to this Inquiry,

17 which appears at temporary statement 63.1. We can take

18 it at temporary statement 63.2, which makes the matter

19 I think a little clearer, because he says there,

20 paragraph 6:

21 "I was positioned on the first floor of

22 a derelict building overlooking the Bogside to the

23 north. The building was situated north of the junction

24 of Howard Street and Long Tower Street in a row of

25 burnt-out terraced, two-up two-down houses."


Page 103


1 That makes more sense in the light of his

2 map:

3 "The army OP, 'Roaring Meg', was on the

4 corner to my right and slightly above the level of my

5 position. The city walls were to my right and perhaps

6 ten feet above my level. There was a grassed area to

7 my right in front of me and to the north of me.

8 I looked out over the chimney tops of the houses in

9 front of me. I was in quite a high position. I had

10 a clear view, to the north, of Westland Street and the

11 Lecky Road. I have marked my position as A on the map

12 which is attached to my statement."

13 That is at 63.6. The position is the same as

14 appears in the written statements given at the time,

15 but the description in the narrative in the present

16 statement is more consistent with where the arrow is

17 than the narrative in the earlier statements was. If

18 we then go back to temporary statement 63.2, he says:

19 "7. There was a Lance Corporal, Inquiry 653,

20 who was moving around in the derelict house. Lance

21 Corporal Inquiry 653 was acting as an observer. From

22 time to time I could see Lance Corporal 653 and he

23 could see me. There was also another soldier deployed

24 in the attic above me. He would not have been able to

25 see what I could see. Lance Sergeant Inquiry 1720, the


Page 104


1 Platoon Commander of 5th Platoon, was with a detachment

2 of soldiers to the rear of the building in which I was

3 positioned. The detachment was covering the area

4 behind my position. I was aware that there were

5 soldiers deployed on the city walls and behind me and

6 that there were soldiers observing from the OP

7 'Roaring'. These soldiers were Royal Anglians."

8 If you go to temporary statement 63.3,

9 paragraph 12, he says:

10 "As I continued to observe from the back of

11 the room, I noticed a man emerge quickly from what

12 I would describe as a prefab tunnel or archway in

13 a group of buildings at Meenan Square. His position is

14 marked on the attached map at point B. I spotted the

15 gunman before Lance Corporal Inquiry 653, who was

16 observing, and shouted to him that I had caught sight

17 of a gunman and told him the gunman's position. There

18 was a crowd of people around the man. The man was

19 roughly 250 metres away from my position. I believe

20 that the man was less than 30 years old. He was

21 wearing a dark raincoat which I think was a three-

22 quarter length raincoat. I cannot now describe the man

23 in any more detail.

24 "13. The crowd of people around the man then

25 quickly disappeared. The man then jumped two or three


Page 105


1 feet in a west to east direction to the wall on the

2 southern side of the Bogside Inn. His position is

3 marked on the attached map at point C. The man

4 crouched and leaned against the southern side of the

5 Bogside Inn, using his left shoulder to support

6 himself, and then leaned into the weapon which he was

7 carrying. The man held the weapon to his right

8 shoulder, taking aim at the city walls to my right and

9 in the direction of 'Roaring Meg'.

10 "14. I then saw a puff of smoke and heard

11 a crack or thump. It was my impression that the man

12 was firing at observers from my Battalion who I was

13 aware were looking out of 'Roaring Meg'. I continued

14 to look directly down at the man and immediately

15 engaged him. My first shot went high above the man's

16 head but the second shot hit him in the chest and he

17 fell straight backwards. I know that the second shot

18 hit the man in his chest rather than in the area of one

19 of his shoulders because if the man had been hit in the

20 area of one of his shoulders he would have spun around

21 rather than have fallen straight backwards. As

22 a sniper you always aim for the largest part of the

23 target and part of the body.

24 "15. A crowd of around 15 to 20 people

25 quickly appeared and surrounded the man and dragged him


Page 106


1 away along the floor back in the direction of Meenan

2 Square. I saw a person pick up the man's weapon.

3 "16. I had been able to see the whole of the

4 weapon which the man had used, which at the time seemed

5 to me to be a bolt action gun, perhaps a .303 rifle.

6 However, with experience I now believe that the weapon

7 could have been an American Garrand.

8 "17. I explained to my Colour Sergeant that

9 I had engaged the gunman with two rounds, the second of

10 which had definitely hit the gunman.

11 "18. The next recollection I have is of

12 seeing a grey Ford Escort car driving off at high speed

13 south along the Lecky Road."

14 At temporary statement 63.6, we will find the

15 positions of B, where he had been, and C, to which he

16 went. It is a little difficult to follow exactly where

17 that is. C is actually close to the Bogside Inn, but

18 not the Bogside Inn itself. If you look at P238, we

19 can see the area in question, in that the place where C

20 is appears to be the building that I am pointing out at

21 the moment on the screen, which is to the south of the

22 Bogside Inn. The Bogside Inn is on the corner of

23 Westland Street and the Lecky Road and the place where

24 the man had been is presumably beneath the covered

25 walkway, which we can see.


Page 107


1 Meenan Square is where I have pointed it out

2 to be, behind the walkway, quite some way behind the

3 Bogside Inn.

4 If we go back to B933, which is his original

5 statement to the RMP, he had there said:

6 "I was situated in the rear of a derelict

7 house on the north side of Long Tower Street near to

8 the junction with Howard Street, close by the section

9 of Long Tower Street that runs between Walker's Place

10 and Fountain Street."

11 The reference in B942 to being with

12 a detachment from his unit manning the barricade in

13 a position across Nailor's Row and Long Tower Street

14 underneath the corner of the walls marked

15 "Double Bastion", seems to be simply an erroneous

16 expression of where he had originally said he was.

17 Lastly and appropriately to Soldier Z.

18 Widgery Soldier Z was in Sackville Street. We saw his

19 evidence earlier. He was a member of the 22nd Light

20 Air Defence Regiment. His evidence was that when he

21 was in Sackville Street he heard a shot fired from

22 somewhere to his left and he saw as he looked to his

23 left a man at the top floor of a derelict factory on

24 the corner of Abbey Street and William Street. The man

25 was standing as a window with a long straight object in


Page 108


1 one hand. He lowered himself from view as if kneeling

2 down inside the window and looked in Z's direction.

3 Z took aim and fired, hitting the man somewhere near

4 the chest, and he fell from sight, except for a hand

5 still hanging from the window.

6 B875 shows where Z was, i.e. in

7 Sackville Street, and shows the position of the gunman

8 at the top of Abbey Street where it meets William

9 Street. If we look at EP21.7, we can see that Z is in

10 Sackville Street and he would appear to be firing at

11 someone at the top of Abbey Street, some way away. He

12 too has given a statement to this Tribunal, which can

13 be found relevantly at temporary statement bundle

14 66.6. What he says, at paragraph 37, is this:

15 "The four of us were still at this stage

16 somewhere near the junction of Sackville Street and

17 Little James Street. I was rated as one of the better

18 shots. The idea would be that, if anyone needed to

19 shoot, I would do it. Some time later in the

20 afternoon, once the noise had died down, I was at

21 approximately the position marked A on the attached

22 map. It is possible that my three colleagues were

23 somewhere in the same area as me, although I could not

24 be precise. I could not say which soldier I was paired

25 with at that time, although it could have been Inquiry


Page 109


1 2004 or Soldier 034. Once deployed to the position

2 marked A on the attached map, I would have had

3 a standard arc of fire which was normally 30 degrees.

4 If three or four of us were there, we would have been

5 able to cover the entire area.

6 "38. I cannot say at what time, apart from

7 that it was during late afternoon that a bullet was

8 fired at us. We heard an almighty crack above our

9 heads. It landed approximately 12 feet over our heads

10 and some brick and mortar actually came down from the

11 wall over our heads. I immediately cocked my weapon.

12 We all went down on the ground. I happened to be in

13 a position where I could see from Sackville Street

14 across Little James Street and from the wasteground to

15 the north of William Street and towards Abbey Street.

16 I had a very narrow field of view, what we would

17 describe as a sniper's alley. This is rather like the

18 alleyway of vision you have through a gap where

19 a building has been knocked down. I had what was

20 almost tunnel vision towards the sniper. I knew the

21 area very well and had walked around it for hours on

22 end. I looked up and glanced through the sniper's

23 alley. I had a clear line of sight to Abbey Street

24 where the old tyre factory used to be. It was by that

25 time a derelict building.


Page 110


1 "39. At approximately the point marked B on

2 the attached map I could see a window in the derelict

3 building which had no glass in it. I cannot say

4 precisely which window it was but it is one of the four

5 windows I have marked on the photograph attached to

6 this statement marked appendix A."

7 That is at temporary statement 66.10 and it

8 actually shows a building considerably further down

9 Abbey Street than that which I had previously pointed

10 out, I having deduced from what had been marked on the

11 map in 1972 that he must have been referring to the

12 first building that you get to as you go down Abbey

13 Street from the north, but he says in this statement it

14 is one of those four windows in the building just past

15 the end of Kells Walk the street, attached to his

16 statement.

17 If we go back to 66.6, bottom of the page:

18 "40. In one of the windows to the left-hand

19 side of the building, I saw a shape of a person

20 I assumed was a man. I could only see half to

21 two-thirds of his body. He went down into

22 a semi-crouched position. I saw him swivel down and

23 I was able to identify in his hand what I thought was

24 a rifle of some description. It had a long extension.

25 It was not a pistol or a sub-machine-gun. From the


Page 111


1 position he was standing at the window, I could tell

2 that he was a left handed shot. The gunman was perhaps

3 200 to 300 yards from my position.

4 "41. I had been fired at from that building

5 before and so assumed that it was this man who had

6 fired the shot that hit the wall above our heads.

7 I saw him first and, under the instructions on the

8 Yellow Card, I was entitled to return fire at him.

9 "42. I crouched down into a kneeling

10 position. My Sergeant Major was very close to me. He

11 was virtually looking over my shoulder, to my left

12 rear. I do not know if he had the same view of the

13 gunman as I had. I said to my Sergeant Major something

14 to the effect of 'I've seen him' or 'I've got him'. My

15 weapon was cocked. I had only to remove the safety

16 catch. My Sergeant Major told me to take him out.

17 I said to the others 'Watch my shot' or perhaps 'Watch

18 my tracer' as the first bullet in my rifle was

19 a tracer. The idea would be that the tracer would home

20 in on the target following the bullet.

21 "42. I fired a shot. I fired from the

22 kneeling position, which is a better position to fire

23 from than a standing position. It reduces your target

24 size and provides a stable, tripod effect. The tracer

25 hit the centre of the gunman's body in the bottom


Page 112


1 left-hand corner of the window and I knew I had scored

2 a hit. The man fell backwards into the building.

3 "44. I saw the man's right hand appear at

4 the window for half a minute at most. The whole

5 shooting incident had only taken about four to five

6 seconds from the moment he had fired to the moment

7 I had fired. There was no further fire from the

8 gunman. I thought I had taken him out. I do not know

9 if he was injured and removed himself or whether he was

10 taken away. We did not personally follow it up or make

11 an attempt to recover the weapon.

12 "45. I did not see the weapon after I had

13 fired. There was never any return fire. The weapon

14 probably stayed with the man inside the building. His

15 instinct, having been shot, would have been for him to

16 grab what he had been holding and take it back into the

17 building with him.

18 "46. Having fired I became immediately aware

19 of everything else around me. I applied the safety

20 catch to my weapon and another round went up the

21 breach.

22 "47. After I had fired, my Sergeant Major

23 must have got on the radio and made a sitrep, stating

24 who had fire, who I had fired at, that one round had

25 been returned, and we had a suspected hit or whatever.


Page 113


1 I do not remember the contents of his report."

2 That brings me to the end of the engagements

3 in question, that is to say those on the periphery of

4 the Bogside. I should perhaps indicate that that

5 reference to a shot fired at a gunman at Abbey Street

6 is reflected in the Brigade log. If we could have

7 counsel's report no. 1, appendix 4, page 33.

8 You will see at item 552, serial number 210

9 on the Brigade log, there is a message:

10 "Hello Zero, this is 90 Alpha. At 16.40

11 hours one 762 round fired at a gunman in the factory,

12 junction of Abbey Street/William Street. Hit claimed.

13 Over."

14 That seems to tie in with Soldier Z.

15 I now come to a different topic, which is the

16 fate of those who were arrested on 30th January 1972.

17 Those who were arrested on that date by members of the

18 1 Para were taken to a holding centre in Fort George,

19 a former naval dockyard at the north end of the Strand

20 Road which had become the Battalion headquarters of the

21 1st Battalion of the Coldstream Guards.

22 If we look at Q6 we can see where that was.

23 You will see the reference in this plan to what is

24 described as a "naval establishment", which it had

25 been, and you can see that it is at the end of the


Page 114


1 Strand Road, not far from the centre of Londonderry.

2 If you turn to C1541.7, you will find a plan

3 of the Fort George compound which is attached to the

4 statement of Lance Corporal Inquiry number 1541. What

5 that describes is that you came off Strand Road and

6 passed through gates between two pill boxes and a guard

7 room on the left and on the right-hand side, after

8 going through a temporary wire fence, manned by

9 sentries, there were two holding centres entered

10 through two separate doors to one side and the other.

11 Those who were taken there were taken in

12 lorries and when they arrived, according to

13 a considerable body of civilian evidence, they were

14 made to run the gauntlet between the lorries in which

15 they arrived and the entrance to the holding centre.

16 We should look at some of the evidence to that effect.

17 If we take AD69.5, we will find the evidence of James

18 Charles Doherty, where he says at paragraph 30:

19 "After the journey the lorry came to a stop

20 and the tailgate was thrown down. We had arrived at

21 Fort George. Fort George is only a 10 minute drive

22 away from where we were, and I think that the lorry

23 must have taken a very roundabout route to confuse us.

24 At this time, however, I did not know where we had been

25 taken to.


Page 115


1 "31. I was grabbed by my hair and clothes by

2 a soldier and was pulled out of the back of the lorry.

3 I fell on to hard concrete and when I looked up I saw

4 that there were two lines of soldiers forming

5 a corridor between the back of the lorry and the door

6 of the building. Each line of soldiers was about 30

7 yards long. The soldiers were armed with some type of

8 baton and they were banging these against something

9 which made a loud noise. One of the soldiers told me

10 to 'run for the fucking door you bastard' and I did

11 so. I ran between the lines of soldiers and was beaten

12 with batons and kicked and punched several times. When

13 I got to the door and got halfway through it there

14 I saw a soldier on the other side with a massive

15 alsation on a chain. As I hesitated I was pushed

16 through the door by a soldier behind me. Before I saw

17 that the dog was on a chain I thought it was going to

18 attack me but the dog was pulled sharply back at the

19 last minute. It was obvious that the soldier with the

20 dog was doing his best to scare me.

21 "32. When I got inside the building I saw it

22 was a large shed or compound" -- I will come back to

23 that particular paragraph in a moment when I come to

24 what happened when they got into the shed itself.

25 If we go to AG43.7, we will find a portion of


Page 116


1 the statement of Charles Glen, the Knight of Malta, who

2 says this:

3 "I was familiar with Fort George because my

4 father worked for the Admiralty. On arrival at Fort

5 George, the soldiers shouted at us to get out of the

6 lorry. As we got out of the lorry, there were two

7 lines of about five to six soldiers forming a corridor

8 between the lorry and the door of one of the buildings

9 at Fort George. We had to run the gauntlet of these

10 soldiers who attacked us with their guns as we ran

11 past. As I ran the gauntlet I was hit with the butts

12 of guns. I was hit in the thigh with the muzzle of

13 a gun. I cannot recall anything particular about the

14 soldiers who formed the gauntlet apart from the fact

15 they had blackened faces. They were not wearing

16 helmets. It was still daylight outside as we went into

17 the building."

18 If we go to AG46.5, we will find paragraph 17

19 of the statement of John Gormley, who says this:

20 "We were taken to Fort George at the

21 dockside. We were taken out of the lorry one by one.

22 I remember that I was grabbed by my hair and was

23 literally thrown out backwards. I fell on my

24 shoulders. I was kicked the minute I hit the ground.

25 I saw that there were two lines of soldiers carrying


Page 117


1 batons, about 50 in total. They were standing perhaps

2 two and a half to three feet apart, and the lines led

3 from the lorry to the building we were heading for.

4 I did not notice what these soldiers were wearing. We

5 had to run the gauntlet with our hands on our heads.

6 The soldiers battered the daylights out of people.

7 I was kicked and beaten from both sides. The man in

8 front of me fell to the ground and someone fell over

9 the top of him. They were beaten up on the floor.

10 I kept my head down and ran as fast as I could to the

11 building ahead."

12 If we go to AM123.3, we will find the

13 statement of Joseph McColgan, paragraph 20, the second

14 half of the page, second line:

15 "The truck pulled up outside a building which

16 fronted on to Strand Road. The building was like

17 a hangar and had windows which were about 10 to 12 feet

18 above ground level. I could hear lots of voices and

19 someone was shouting 'More'. I understood this to mean

20 that more civilians were being brought in. I could

21 hear dogs barking from within Fort George.

22 "21. The Paratroopers at the back of the

23 lorry told us not to turn around until we were told to

24 do so. They told us that when we were instructed we

25 should get out of the lorry and head for the door in


Page 118


1 front of us.

2 "22. I cannot have been the very last person

3 in the truck as I was not the first to get out. When

4 I turned round to get out of the truck, I saw someone

5 else running towards a door in the building. I could

6 see about a dozen soldiers stood in two rows forming

7 a corridor from the truck to the doors of the

8 building. The soldiers had left about a three-foot gap

9 for us to run between. The soldiers were not all

10 Paratroopers and I remember that they were wearing

11 a mix of coloured berets. I recall that one soldier

12 was wearing a black beret. All the soldiers had sticks

13 or batons. Some appeared to be holding broom handles

14 or whatever they could lay their hands on.

15 "23. The people in front of me were running

16 the gauntlet. They were running towards the door to

17 the building. As they ran the soldiers were striking

18 them with whatever they were holding. If anyone fell

19 they were beaten until they got up. The soldiers were

20 striking people wherever they could hit them. The

21 soldiers were laughing and shouting and seemed to be

22 enjoying themselves. The distance between the back of

23 the truck and the door was about 10 metres.

24 "24. As I ran towards the door of the

25 building I was hit a couple of times on the back and


Page 119


1 suffered bruising. I protected my head as much as

2 I could with my arms and hands. I remember that there

3 were a couple of German shepherd dogs on chains which

4 were lunging towards the people running towards the

5 hangar. I cannot remember exactly where these dogs

6 were."

7 If we go to AM241.6 we will find at paragraph

8 28 of the statement of Patrick McGinley this:

9 "Eventually we came to a stop. The soldiers

10 got out and ordered us to pile out of the back of the

11 lorry. They practically dragged us and threw us on to

12 the ground. When I got out of the lorry either side of

13 me in a line in front of me was a gauntlet of

14 soldiers. Some were holding on to ferocious guard dogs

15 and some had rubber tube-like sticks but not the usual

16 batons in their hands. We were made to run down the

17 gauntlet of soldiers and as we did so they were beating

18 us and kicking us and setting the dogs on us. It was

19 impossible for them to miss. I cannot recall how long

20 the gauntlet of soldiers was, my only concern was to

21 get to the end of the gauntlet. I was hit a number of

22 times as I ran through the gauntlet. If anyone fell

23 they were hit."

24 At AO43.4 we find paragraph 29 of the

25 statement of Miles O'Hagan:


Page 120


1 "When we arrived at Fort George the lorry

2 stopped by a red brick building. There was an entrance

3 door to this building. From this door there were two

4 walls of barbed wire which formed a tunnel from the

5 door. The wire joined up with two other walls of

6 barbed wire that surrounded the building. The gap at

7 the end of this barbed wire tunnel was just big enough

8 for the lorry to back into. There were no gaps between

9 the side of the lorry and the barbed wire. There were

10 about 20 soldiers standing inside the barbed wire,

11 lining each side of the tunnel. I did not think at the

12 time that they had been at the Bogside earlier, but

13 I cannot remember why I thought this. They may have

14 been dressed differently to the soldiers who arrested

15 us.

16 "30. Some of the soldiers then began to

17 throw people out of the lorry and we were ordered to go

18 through the door at the far end of the tunnel. The

19 soldiers beat people as they ran to the door. The

20 soldiers had sewer rods which were about a yard long

21 with brass ends. If people did not fall or stumble on

22 their way to the door they only got one or two smacks

23 with these rods. However, if they had fallen or

24 stumbled on getting out of the van, the soldiers gave

25 them a hard beating until they got up."


Page 121


1 If we go to H21.24, we will find the

2 contemporaneous, that is to say the 1972 statement of

3 Father O'Keefe. At the bottom of the page, paragraph

4 30:

5 "When we arrived at the Strand Road army

6 centre we were ordered not to move until we were told.

7 There was a short delay and then eventually I was

8 kicked in the back by a soldier and told to get out of

9 the lorry. I was kicked from the lorry and had to run

10 between two lines of soldiers with red flashes and red

11 berets, who I think were Paratroopers. They were armed

12 with rifles, batons and, I got the impression, some

13 sort of hoses.

14 "31. I put my hands over my head and ran for

15 the door which was at the end of the two lines and as

16 I ran through the two lines I was struck several times

17 on the legs, body, and arms."

18 AW3.03 contains the statement of Robert

19 Anthony Wallace, paragraph 16:

20 "We were taken to Fort George. There were

21 paras outside the lorry standing in two lines with

22 about 8 or 10 soldiers. I recognised them as paras on

23 account of their red berets. We were told by a soldier

24 'When I tap you on the shoulder you must run the

25 gauntlet'. People were beaten as they ran between the


Page 122


1 two lines of soldiers. When my turn came to dismount

2 from the lorry, I slipped and fell and was whacked

3 a few times with batons. I was badly dazed. The paras

4 were behaving like animals and treating the gauntlet as

5 though it was a bit of sport."

6 That is a number of witnesses. There are

7 others whose evidence I do not intend to read out at

8 this stage, but who speak of the gauntlet. Those

9 include William Leo Carlin at AC40, paragraph 24;

10 Dennis Patrick McLaughlin, AM326, paragraph 29; George

11 Roberts, AR13, paragraph 16.

12 That evidence is to be contrasted with the

13 evidence of some of the soldiers who were present at

14 Fort George when those who had been arrested arrived

15 there. If we go to C321.2, you will find the evidence

16 of Lance Corporal Inquiry number 321, who was in the

17 3rd Company of the 1st Battalion of the Coldstream

18 Guards, who says at paragraph 12:

19 "I remember standing around the area of the

20 officers' mess when I saw a four tonne lorry back up to

21 the entrance to a building which I would describe as

22 a large hangar or gymnasium within the Fort George

23 encampment. I was standing around 120 yards away from

24 this building.

25 "13. Fort George was originally a municipal


Page 123


1 dustbin yard and had been converted by the army into

2 barracks. I believe at that time that we were one of

3 the first resident Battalions at Fort George.

4 "14. The building which the four tonne

5 lorry backed up to was a very large building and

6 I believe that it was made of corrugated iron. There

7 were no windows to the building and there was only one

8 main entrance. The entrance was not like a hangar

9 sliding door but was definitely bigger than an average

10 front door to a domestic house.

11 "15. Once I saw the four tonne lorry back up

12 to the entrance to the building I saw soldiers from the

13 Parachute Regiment standing side by side in two

14 opposite rows leading from the rear of the lorry to the

15 entrance of the building. There were four or five

16 soldiers in each row. I knew that these soldiers were

17 Paratroopers because they wore smocks and their helmets

18 were different to the ones we used to wear, they were

19 much rounder in shape. The Paratroopers did not have

20 any camouflage markings on their faces and there was

21 nothing else distinctive about their appearance that

22 I can recall. I do not believe that the paras were

23 carrying rifles, although there may have been one or

24 two with rifles, I cannot remember.

25 "16. I then remember seeing civilians


Page 124


1 jumping down from the rear of the lorry and being

2 ushered in to the entrance to the building.

3 "17. I remember hearing lots of shouting,

4 although I cannot remember what was said. I do not

5 remember any of the Paratroopers making any gestures

6 towards the civilians. They just seemed to be guiding

7 them into the building. I cannot give any description

8 of the civilians who jumped down from the lorry or how

9 many people were there. I do not remember seeing any

10 priest amongst the group. I cannot remember if there

11 were any women there."

12 If we go to C855.2, we will find the evidence

13 of Guardsman Inquiry number 855 who was in 2 Company of

14 the 1st Battalion of the Coldstream Guards, at

15 paragraph 9:

16 "At this point we continued our journey to

17 Fort George. About one hour after I had been watching

18 the paras go into the Bogside to carry out the arrest

19 operation, Paras started to bring prisoners to Fort

20 George. The Paras were handing over prisoners who must

21 have been rioters to the Military Police who were using

22 portacabins to process the people arrested by the

23 Paras. The Paras were just escorting the prisoners out

24 of Pigs arriving at Fort George and were doing no more

25 than helping the prisoners climb down out of the Pigs.


Page 125


1 The Paras were treating the prisoners perfectly well

2 and were using the minimum force necessary to escort

3 the prisoners."

4 If we go to C951.1, we will find the

5 statement of Guardsman Inquiry number 951, who was in

6 HQ Company of the 1st Battalion of the

7 Coldstream Guards: can we go to C1078.1? Before we do

8 that, it is only a paragraph I need read from the

9 statement of Inquiry 951. He describes the arrival of

10 the Paras and says essentially this:

11 "The Paras went through a straightforward

12 process of assisting the civilians out of a lorry and

13 directing them to walk towards the entrance door to the

14 warehouse-type building above which was a light. The

15 Paras were quite pleasant in their attitude to the

16 civilians and there were no swearing or shouting, nor

17 were the civilians shoved and prodded as they walked

18 towards the warehouse. The civilians did not have

19 their hands on their heads as they walked from the rear

20 to the lorry to the entrance of the warehouse and

21 appeared to be healthy."

22 If we look at 1078, paragraph 5:

23 "My only other recollection of the day is

24 watching a three tonne lorry arrive at the gates of

25 Fort George, drive in through the entrance and then


Page 126


1 reverse towards a building to the right of the gates.

2 I watched a member of the Parachute Regiment get out of

3 the cab of the lorry and then open the tailgate where

4 at least two more Paras got out of the lorry, followed

5 by around eight to ten civilians.

6 "6. I had not previously seen Paras at Fort

7 George and I knew that they were not based there. Fort

8 George was principally the base for the Coldstream

9 Guards at that time. I clearly recollect that the

10 soldiers getting out of the lorry were Paras. I must

11 have recognised them either from their red berets or

12 the wings on their sleeves. I cannot now recall

13 whether they were in camouflage, or whether they were

14 wearing pullovers, or whether they were carrying

15 weapons. I cannot describe the individual Paras

16 further.

17 "7. I watched as the Paras stood next to the

18 tailgate and helped the civilians out of the back of

19 the lorry. There were two steps set into the tailgate

20 for getting in and out of the lorry and they were quite

21 difficult to negotiate if you were not used to them.

22 Therefore the Paras were holding the civilians as the

23 civilians found their footing on the steps in the

24 tailgate before getting on to the ground. I watched as

25 the Paras and the civilians disappeared inside the


Page 127


1 building and I did not see any of them again. I cannot

2 recall seeing the lorry leave. I did not notice any

3 mistreatment of the civilians by the Paras. I was not

4 aware of any dogs at Fort George."

5 The military evidence is not all to quite

6 that effect. If we go to C1224.1, we will find the

7 statement of Guardsman Inquiry number 1224, who was in

8 the 1st Battalion. If we go to the bottom of the page,

9 paragraph 5:

10 "When we arrived at Fort George, the

11 prisoners had not yet arrived. There was a large

12 building which to my mind seemed like a gymnasium. It

13 was a high-ceilinged building and was oblong in shape.

14 I cannot remember whether it had any windows. The

15 entrance was a double door. Leading from the entrance

16 into the courtyard there was some sort of pathway which

17 ran at an angle to the door.

18 "6. While I was standing just outside the

19 building waiting for the prisoners to arrive I heard

20 gunfire. On some days you might hear the odd two or

21 three shots but this was much more prolific and sounded

22 like a battle. I cannot remember where the sound came

23 from. There were some single shots and some automatic

24 continuous fire, like a machine-gun. It sounded like

25 a battle and an exchange of fire. It was not just one


Page 128


1 sort of gun firing. We probably discussed it amongst

2 ourselves, but I cannot remember what we said now.

3 I have come under fire myself in Northern Ireland but

4 not on this day.

5 "7. I was standing at the end of the pathway

6 I mention above which was furthest from the building

7 when the prisoners first arrived. I remember a batch

8 of about 20 or so prisoners arriving in a three tonne

9 army vehicle. It parked at the end of the pathway with

10 its rear doors facing the building. I think it had

11 a tailgate which was lowered and the prisoners were

12 then roughly man-handled out of the vehicle by

13 Paratroopers, who had obviously been escorting the

14 prisoners in the vehicle. I knew that they were

15 Paratroopers because of their different type of combat

16 smock and trousers.

17 "8. As they got out some of the Paras lined

18 up on each side of the pathway which I have described.

19 I think there were probably about eight Paratroopers on

20 each side of the pathway. The Paras made the prisoners

21 run the gauntlet into the building. I remember there

22 was a lot of shouting at this stage both by the

23 prisoners and by the Paras. The Paras were shouting

24 'Move, move, move'. In anyone stopped then they were

25 hit to make the prisoner go in. Some of the prisoners


Page 129


1 were hit with batons. Some of the prisoners had their

2 hands over their heads. At the end of the pathway

3 closest to the building there were a couple of alsation

4 dogs on the leash and I remember they were going

5 bananas. If a prisoners hesitated past the dogs they

6 would be whacked on the head or body by one of the

7 Paras to make them continue. The dogs were being

8 allowed to move forward to the full extent of their

9 leashes so that they got very close to the prisoners,

10 although I did not actually see the dogs biting the

11 prisoners. I cannot recall the identities of the dog

12 handlers. They were not from the Coldstream Guards.

13 We did not have dogs. It all happened very quickly.

14 "9. I remember seeing at least one person

15 hit with a rifle butt. Everyone was shouting and the

16 prisoners were very aggressive. It probably took each

17 prisoner about 30 seconds to get from the three tonne

18 lorry to the gym door. I did not recognise any of the

19 prisoners and they were of mixed ages. I cannot

20 remember seeing any women, but there may have been

21 some. Some of the prisoners fell as they ran the

22 gauntlet. They were running into each other. I think

23 some of the prisoners were injured before they got out

24 of the three tonne vehicle because they had dried blood

25 on them."


Page 130


1 There are two soldiers who say there was

2 a certain amount of rough handling, but that this was

3 justified. If we go to C1147.2, we will find the

4 statement of Guardsman Inquiry number 1147, of HQ

5 Company of the 1st Battalion of the Coldstream Guards,

6 who says at paragraph 9:

7 "At about 4.45 pm, I received an order to

8 relieve one of the guards who was on duty in a hangar

9 in the complex. The hangar was opposite the guard

10 room, behind the officers' mess. As I made my way to

11 the hangar I saw that a three tonne lorry had just

12 arrived and parked up outside the hangar. I saw that

13 the lorry had a Para insignia on it and that the driver

14 and the NCO were both wearing red berets. There were

15 about half a dozen Coldstream Guards lined up between

16 the back of the lorry and the double doors leading into

17 the hangar. They had no weapons. There were also two

18 dog handlers with their alsation dogs unmuzzled but on

19 leads. The dogs were barking and mouthing off, as they

20 are trained to do. The dog handlers were not Coldstream

21 Guards. I think they may have been with the Royal

22 Anglians or the Royal Green Jackets. The tailgate of

23 the lorry was dropped and I heard an NCO shouting

24 'That's the door'. There were two soldiers in the

25 back of the lorry with some arrestees. Both soldiers


Page 131


1 were wearing Para smocks and battle bowlers [tin hats]

2 and were carrying SLRs, which they were holding

3 upright.

4 "10. After the tailgate was dropped,

5 arrestees were pulled or pushed towards the doors

6 leading into the hangar. The dogs were being used to

7 dissuade the people from stepping out of line. They

8 were being aggressive, but they were under control.

9 Those arrestees who refused to walk or were protesting

10 their innocence were man-handled and I remember in

11 particular seeing one large guy who was practically

12 pulled along into the hangar by two Coldstream Guards.

13 "11. I have been in that sort of situation

14 before; it is difficult to describe the stress that the

15 soldiers who have been under. The problem for the

16 soldiers was that if they allowed the arrestees to

17 delay they could end up with a mini riot on their

18 hands. They needed to get people moving as quickly as

19 possible. I think what I saw that day was fairly

20 typical. I do not think the people were unduly

21 mistreated. I certainly did not see any of them pushed

22 out of the lorry, kicked or struck. Some of them,

23 however, already had injuries consistent with having

24 been arrested in a riot. Some of the soldiers were

25 also bleeding."


Page 132


1 If we go to C552.1, we will find the evidence

2 of another Guardsman in HQ Company of the Coldstreams.

3 The bottom of the page, paragraph 4:

4 "The trucks were full of civilians and some

5 of the civilians refused to get out of the vehicles

6 when they arrived. There was a lot of shouting and

7 swearing and I recall seeing some of the Paras with

8 dogs getting into the trucks. Some of the Paras were

9 carrying what I thought at the time were pick axe

10 handles but on reflection I think that they must have

11 been carrying riot batons. The dogs, which were going

12 berserk, were also lifted into the trucks. I saw Paras

13 hitting some of the prisoners with batons in the

14 vehicles. Some of the civilians were having a proper

15 go at the army, jumping and kicking and generally

16 putting up resistance and the Paras were hitting back.

17 However, in the tussle the civilians were coming off

18 worse as they were not carrying batons.

19 "5. I saw some of the civilians being pushed

20 or kicked out of the trucks and there were one or two

21 with blood on their faces. I would estimate that about

22 60 or 70 civilians altogether got out of the vehicles,

23 but I cannot remember where they were taken. There

24 were some sheds to the rear and it is possible that

25 they were taken there."


Page 133


1 Lastly under this heading, if one goes to

2 C851.2, you will find the evidence of Guardsman INQ

3 851, also of HQ Company, where he says at paragraph 12:

4 "What I do remember is hearing a conversation

5 between an officer from my Regiment and someone else in

6 the OPs room. I think the officer was Captain Unknown

7 74, who is now deceased. It may have been another

8 officer, but it was not anyone more senior than

9 a captain. The officer said that the Paras were

10 outside dragging prisoners out of vehicles and

11 generally being heavy handed with the people that were

12 being brought in. It was said with a degree of shock

13 and with some degree of sympathy for the prisoners.

14 I think it was said to another officer with the

15 intention that something be done about it."

16 As we have seen that evidence, it is not

17 entirely clear whether, if there was a gauntlet of

18 soldiers, it was composed of Paratroopers or members of

19 the 1st Battalion of the Coldstream Guards, or a

20 combination.

21 The building into which those who had been

22 arrested were taken appears to have been like

23 a gymnasium or warehouse, as it is from time to time

24 described in the statements. The inside of the

25 building is described by a number of witnesses. If we


Page 134


1 look at AD46.6, we will find the statement of William

2 John Dillon. At paragraph 32, he says this:

3 "At Fort George, the lorry stopped at a gate

4 leading into a big hangar. There was room for about 20

5 lorries to be parked in there. The soldiers took us

6 out of the lorry and we were slapped and hit on the

7 back as they did so. They then marched us into the

8 hangar. At one end of the hangar was a large area

9 measuring about 40 feet by 20 feet that had been

10 cordoned off with army camouflage screens which were

11 about eight feet high. We were marched into the

12 holding area created by the screens. It was like a big

13 cattle pen. When we arrived in the pen there must have

14 been about 40 people already there. I do not recall

15 how long we actually entered the pen. Perhaps they

16 lifted aside a part of a screen to let us in and then

17 closed it behind us. There were two small rooms off to

18 the side of the pen. There were a lot of police and

19 soldiers in the hangar and pen and in the two rooms

20 leading off the pen. There were two soldiers who were

21 on guard duty inside the pen. They were wearing

22 helmets, but I do not think they were Paratroopers.

23 I do not think any of the soldiers in the hangar were

24 Paratroopers."

25 If you go to AM120.4, you will find the


Page 135


1 statement of William Columbo McCloskey, who says at

2 paragraph 26, the second half of the page:

3 "After between five minutes and ten minutes,

4 we arrived at Fort George. We were then marched into

5 a cage constructed of darned wire and steel. Darned

6 wire is the sort recently used by the police at

7 Drumcree. It is essentially barbed wire, tightly

8 packed in coils.

9 "27. The cage into which we were put can be

10 described with the aid of a diagram attached, marked

11 2. The diagram is an aerial representation of the

12 cage. It was in a large building which reassembled an

13 aircraft hangar. The building was about 150 foot wide

14 and 30 feet high, eight buses could have easily fitted

15 in it. The cage itself was probably about 20 feet

16 square."

17 That diagram is at 120.9. One can see from

18 the diagram that it is a 20 feet square cage in a 150

19 foot long building, the cage being constituted by

20 walls, as it were, of wire and there is an entranceway

21 into a steel frame and a door. It sounds rather

22 different from the description of the previous witness,

23 which is of a cattle pen created by some form of

24 screening.

25 If we go back to 120.5,:


Page 136


1 "28. The cage was partitioned off from the

2 rest of the larger building by layers of wire. It was

3 reached from outside the building by a long tunnel also

4 constructed of wire. At the end of the tunnel was

5 a steel framed door which led into the cage. I think

6 that the lorry we were in reversed into the tunnel

7 entrance and we were ordered to get down. There were

8 Paratroopers, soldiers from other regiments and RUC men

9 all around us. Some were handing large alsations which

10 were barking and growling. I will never forget one of

11 the Paratroopers, a Scotsman, said to one of the dogs

12 at this point. He said, in a thick Scottish accent,

13 loud enough for those arrested to hear, 'Do not go

14 fretting now, boy. There is plenty of fresh meat for

15 you. We shot nine of these bastards today'."

16 If we go to AM1239.4, we will find the

17 statement of Joseph McColgan. At paragraph 25 he says

18 this:

19 "I ran inside the building. There was a

20 large room about 60 metres by 30 metres with a high

21 ceiling. The door through which I had run was about

22 halfway along the southern side of the room. The room

23 was divided in half by a wire partition running north

24 to south down the centre of the room. I cannot

25 remember whether this partition was made completely


Page 137


1 from wire and whether it was all the way up to the

2 roof:

3 "26. There was some sort of walkway running

4 around the interior of the hangar. I cannot remember

5 how high this walkway was but it was well above head

6 height. I could see a soldier with a blue/grey beret

7 carrying a gun, who seemed to be patrolling the

8 interior of the hangar from this walkway. I attach as

9 appendix 3 a sketch diagram of the interior of this

10 building."

11 Appendix 3 is at 123.17 and that has the

12 doorway at the middle of the longest side of the

13 rectangle and the building divided half and half into

14 civilians on one side with the wire partition in the

15 middle and some collapsible tables on the other side,

16 which is a description of the division of the inside of

17 the building which is different from each of the two

18 previous ones, those descriptions each being different

19 from each other.

20 If we then go to C18.2, we will find the

21 evidence of Corporal Inquiry number 18, who is in 176

22 Company of the Royal Military Police. The bottom half

23 of the page, paragraph 16:

24 "I think I got to Fort George around 5.00 pm

25 or 6.00 pm.


Page 138


1 "17. Fort George was an old naval dockyard.

2 The entrance to Fort George was through a long wall,

3 about 400 to 500 yards long. Immediately inside the

4 entrance there was a checkpoint. There were various

5 buildings within Fort George. I was directed to or had

6 been told to go to a large hangar type building.

7 "18. When I got there, things had already

8 started. I can remember seeing alsations with their

9 handlers by the entrance to the building. In

10 Northern Ireland there were war dogs and guard dogs.

11 War dogs were lethal. I think the dogs by the entrance

12 were guard dogs. I cannot remember as I went in

13 whether there were also other soldiers by the entrance,

14 nor can I remember whether there were any RMPs there.

15 I do know that it was dark:

16 "19. Attached to this statement is a diagram

17 setting out my recollections of the layout of the

18 inside of the building. As I walked towards the

19 building, towards one end, the entranceway was to my

20 left. To my right as I went inside, at the far end of

21 the building, against the near side wall, there was

22 a row of internal offices enclosed by walls, each with

23 a door. I cannot remember if the offices had any

24 windows. Nearer to me, against the wall at the far

25 side of the building, there were two pens made of


Page 139


1 dennert wire. The first was almost directly opposite

2 the entrance to the building and the second was further

3 away to my right."

4 If one goes to C18.9, it is easier to see

5 it. That does indeed show that the entrance is towards

6 one end of one of the longest sides of the rectangle

7 and the building has four processing offices in one

8 corner and two separate pens in the opposite corner.

9 Again that is a description somewhat different from

10 each of the preceding ones.

11 If we could have C1147.2, we will find the

12 evidence of Guardsman Inquiry number 1147, who at

13 paragraph 12, says this:

14 "I followed the people into the hangar

15 through some double doors. There is a diagram attached

16 to this statement which shows the layout, as I can

17 remember it, inside the hangar. The hangar was about

18 the size of a large gymnasium. It had metal walls and

19 a metal roof, but there was a brick wall about six feet

20 high around the inside perimeter forming a ledge.

21 There were two small brick walls which effectively

22 split the hangar into two halves, although there was

23 a large gap in the middle of them. The walls are

24 marked on the diagram. We used to play volleyball in

25 one half. I do not think I have ever been in the other


Page 140


1 half, that furthest away from the double doors. A row

2 of dennert razor wire had been stretched out between

3 the two small brick walls, although there was a small

4 gap between the wire and one of the walls for access."

5 Go to 1147.5. You will see his diagram which

6 seems different itself, in that the entry "double

7 doors", seen roughly in the same position as the

8 previous witness, but they lead not into a half of the

9 hall which has two pens in it, but to a volleyball

10 court, and then the division between the one half and

11 the other is a division constituted by dennert wire and

12 there then seem to be offices in the corner pointing to

13 opposite the people who have been penned. There

14 certainly do not seem to be two separate pens. So

15 there is rather a wide range of description as to the

16 nature of the inside of the building.

17 Once the civilians were inside the holding

18 centre, they were, according to much of their evidence,

19 made to stand facing the walls and, according to some

20 of them, to hold on to barbed wire. If we look at

21 AD69.5, we will find the statement of James Charles

22 Doherty, where at paragraph 32 he says this:

23 "When I got inside the building I saw it was

24 a large shed or compound with no windows. It was

25 freezing cold. The compound was lit up brightly and


Page 141


1 was divided in half by rows of coiled rusty barbed wire

2 about 10 foot high [that is consistent with the

3 description of the previous witness]. Along with the

4 other people who had been arrested I was told to stand

5 spread-eagled against a wall and take hold of the rusty

6 barbed wire with both hands. After we had stood there

7 holding this barbed wire for 30 minutes or so, we were

8 told to then go and stand against another wall without

9 barbed wire. After another 30 minutes of this, we were

10 then ordered back to the barbed wire which divided the

11 room. All the time that this was happening we were

12 being shouted at, kicked, punched and verbally abused

13 by the soldiers."

14 I do not fully understand what he means when

15 he says that he was told to stand spreadeagled against

16 a wall and take hold of rusty barbed wire with both

17 hands, since the two seem different. It is suggested

18 to me it may be simply barbed wire on top of the wall.

19 Possible.

20 If we go back to AG43.7, paragraph 53 of the

21 statement of Charles Glen, he says this:

22 "We were taken into a workshop-type building

23 which had a high roof. The floor was separated into

24 areas by barbed wire and we were put into one of these

25 sections which was used as a holding pen. There were


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1 not that many civilians in the holding pens when

2 I arrived. It is possible that I had been in the first

3 lot to leave William Street, although I remember more

4 than one vehicle heading off from William Street. The

5 Paras rather than the police were in charge of events

6 in the building and they made us stand against a wall

7 on the right-hand side of the room. We were made to

8 stand outstretched with only our finger tips touching

9 the wall. We were not physically attacked while in the

10 holding pens, although the Paras seemed to keep coming

11 in and out of the area."

12 If we go to AG46.5, we will find the

13 statement of John Gormley, who at paragraph 18 says

14 this:

15 "The building we went into was a large

16 building, perhaps 20 to 30 foot long, and about 30 foot

17 wide and it was bare. There was a veranda around the

18 top of it and I saw a soldier walking along that

19 veranda with a rifle pointed down at us. I cannot

20 remember much about that soldier or the others. We

21 were herded into a corner, I cannot remember which. We

22 were then made to line up against the wall that ran the

23 length of the building. The soldiers hit people in

24 their backs, ribs and heads. I remember being hit in

25 the back of the neck with a truncheon as I was standing


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1 facing the wall. There was a wire running between the

2 side walls of the building along the length of the wall

3 that we were standing at, but a few feet out. The

4 soldiers brought in some alsation dogs and the dogs

5 were chained to the wire so that they could run along

6 it. They were positioned so that if we stood flat up

7 against the wall they could not quite reach us. If we

8 moved backwards at any point, however, they could bite

9 us. We had to stand with our hands against the wall

10 with the dogs behind us for perhaps two or three

11 hours. It was freezing cold and I remember that my

12 hands went numb because the blood had been drained out

13 of them."

14 If you go to AM241.6, you will find the

15 statement of Patrick McGinley, who says at paragraph

16 30:

17 "When we got there they were made to stand on

18 tip-toe facing the wall with our hands up. I cannot

19 remember how long we were made to stand in this way but

20 it seemed like hours. Standing to my right was my

21 neighbour, Eugene Bradley. I do not know why, but

22 after about half an hour Eugene was let out. Before he

23 left I asked him to tell my mother where I was. He

24 must have been in shock and forgotten. I later learnt

25 that that evening he accompanied my brother to the


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1 mortuary at Altnagelvin Hospital to look for me.

2 "31. The soldiers guarding us in the shed

3 were different to those who brought us there.

4 I thought that they were a different Regiment. They

5 were wearing berets and usual soldiers' uniform, not

6 camouflage gear. Soldiers were coming around making

7 sure that we were not resting on our heels. If I could

8 not keep on tip-toe and stood on my heels I got

9 punched."

10 If we then go to AM326.9, we will see at

11 paragraph 31 the evidence of Dennis Patrick McLaughlin,

12 who said this:

13 "The soldiers and policemen were constantly

14 teasing us. I do not remember anything particular

15 about their appearance. We were made to stand straight

16 up in the pen. I happened to be stood under a large

17 gas heater. If I put my head down a soldier would push

18 my head up again with a baton by placing it under my

19 chin. The heat was very uncomfortable and I asked the

20 same soldier for a drink as I was thirsty. The

21 soldier, who was taller than me, said 'Open your

22 mouth'. Not being my full self at that moment due to

23 everything that had happened that day, I opened my

24 mouth and he spat into it."

25 The same incident is referred to by


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1 Father O'Keefe at H21.25, when he says this at

2 paragraph 33:

3 "From 5 o'clock when I was first put in the

4 charge of the Anglians or the Coldstreams, until about

5 8 o'clock that night, we had alternately to either

6 stand in search position against the wall or to hold on

7 to barbed wire or to stand with one's hands behind the

8 head. We had to spend all our time in one of these

9 three alternative positions and we were changed around

10 from time to time. The only exception to this in the

11 whole three hours was five minutes when we had a cup of

12 tea.

13 "34. I remember the standing for this long

14 time with my arms above my head because my left arm had

15 been quite badly batoned and it tended to slide down

16 all the time. I had to do my best to try and keep it

17 up. When I went to my doctor two days later he said

18 that the radial nerve had been damage. It is recovered

19 now. At around 8 o'clock an officer arrived and

20 ordered chairs and electric heaters to be provided. It

21 was extremely cold in the room which we were in, which

22 had a concrete floor.

23 "36. At about 9.30 the Paras came back.

24 They came to identify stone throwers in order that the

25 RUC could charge them.


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1 "37. About 12 to 15 Paras came into the room

2 and chose three or four apiece. I was not chosen at

3 this time. Along with six others I remained on the

4 chairs. During approximately one to one and a half

5 hours I witnessed many acts of brutality committed on

6 the prisoners. The Paras kicked shins, stamped on

7 feet, kneed groins and struck the prisoners with fists.

8 In one incident a youth of about 15 was severely struck

9 twice by a Paratrooper. I could not see whether it was

10 with his fist or his knee but the youth was struck both

11 times in the groin. He fell backwards and struck his

12 head on the concrete. He was kicked on the ground and

13 then hauled to his feet. He was unable to stand and

14 had to be propped against a wall.

15 "38. Two youths were forced to put their

16 hands back in an unnaturally strained position to bring

17 their faces close to the electric heaters, which were

18 overhead heaters on stands. The smaller youth was

19 forced to stand on the larger youth's feet to bring his

20 face closer. They had to keep this position for 28

21 minutes to half an hour. During this time one

22 Paratrooper asked the young fellow whether he wanted

23 a drink. When he said 'yes' he was ordered to open his

24 mouth and a Paratrooper spat into it.

25 "Eventually another Paratrooper arrived to


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1 identify the seven or so of us who were still sitting

2 on chairs. We were then brought up to the wall also

3 and a Lance Corporal kneed us several times in the

4 groin when accusing me of throwing stones. We were

5 photographed and the Lance Corporal made a statement

6 accusing me of throwing stones. I was then brought

7 into another room where the RUC were interviewing the

8 prisoners.

9 "39. Even during the period in this room

10 I saw acts of brutality committed by the Paratrooper on

11 the prisoners. One fellow was hit in the stomach by

12 a Paratrooper. A Lance Corporal tried to kick the

13 youth beside me but was stopped by an RUC sergeant.

14 I was released at 11.40."

15 If you turn to 21.27, you will find a letter

16 that was written on 20th February 1972 by

17 Father O'Keefe, then of course at the University of

18 Ulster, and still is, to General Tuzo.

19 "Some time ago I had occasion to write to you

20 concerning a statement on violence which was being

21 prepared by the Association of Irish Priests. You were

22 good enough on that occasion to reply to me, saying

23 among other things that violence had to be condemned.

24 I wish now to make a formal complaint about violence

25 inflicted by members of your forces on myself and other


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1 civilians while in military custody. The incidents

2 happened on Sunday, 30th January 1972 after the

3 ill-fated March in Derry. I realise that anything to

4 do with the deaths which took place on that day is sub

5 judice and a matter for Lord Widgery's tribunal. I do

6 not therefore propose to comment on these deaths at

7 this stage.

8 "May I stress that the account which follows

9 is that of an eyewitness and a sufferer. Nothing in

10 this letter is either hearsay or deduction."

11 Sir, I hear the clock strike. It is quite an

12 important letter. I wonder whether we might properly

13 deal with it tomorrow morning.

14 LORD SAVILLE: Very well, 9.30, please.

15 (3.00 pm)

16 (Proceedings adjourned until

17 Tuesday, 27th June 2000 at 9.30 am)