1 Wednesday, 21st June 2000
2 (9.33 am)
3 MR CLARKE: We had been looking yesterday at
4 the photographs that Mr Peress took, firstly of
5 Jack Duddy in the car park of the Rossville flats; and
6 then, as he came to the bottom of the car park, at the
7 people crawling along the wall at the southeast; then
8 the photographs that he took as he came round the gap
9 between blocks 2 and 3 to the south of the Rossville
10 flats.
11 Could we have on the screen M65.21 so that we
12 can see the sequence that he describes, paragraph 14
13 and onwards, in his own words. He says there:
14 "I saw the men [those who were crawling along
15 the wall at the southeast of the car park] make their
16 way through the alleyway which existed between blocks 2
17 and 3 and disappear from view. I thought that if they
18 managed to get through then I should follow them. Less
19 than one minute after the men had disappeared from my
20 view, I ran in a crouched position from point G2 to
21 point I. When I got there I immediately saw Patrick
22 Doherty lying on the ground at point J."
23 If we look at M65.23, we can find where he is
24 talking about. He ran from the crouched position at
25 G2, which is closer to the wall than G1 and he got to
1 the position marked I from which he took the
2 photographs of Patrick Doherty who was lying at point
3 J, at the entrance to the alleyway at the back of
4 Joseph Place. He says that he ran from point G to
5 point I less than a minute after the men had
6 disappeared from his view through the gap between
7 blocks 2 and 3. If we go back to M65.21, he then says
8 this, having said he saw Patrick Doherty lying on the
9 ground at point G with his feet towards him:
10 "He was clearly extremely badly wounded if
11 not dead. There was a man behind Doherty crawling on
12 his belly towards Doherty shouting something with an
13 expression of shock on his face. I took photographs 9A
14 to 11 on contact sheet B [we saw those yesterday]
15 turned to my right and took photographs 11 A/12
16 (contact sheet B) [that was the photograph to the west]
17 and then turned back to focus on Doherty and took
18 photographs 12A to 14."
19 Then there is the passage I read yesterday:
20 "15. From what I saw that day, I cannot see
21 how Doherty could have been shot whilst he was crawling
22 along the wall that runs parallel to block 3. In my
23 opinion he must have been shot after he had rounded the
24 southeastern corner of block 2 ...
25 "16. Whilst I was photographing Doherty,
1 shooting was still going on. I thought at the time
2 that it was coming from my right (i.e. from the
3 west/northwest). I then made my way from point I to
4 point K on the attached map. There I photographed a
5 man I later found out was called Bernard McGuigan lying
6 dead in a pool of blood. Shortly before photographing
7 McGuigan, the gunfire stopped. At this point
8 I remember photographing a man amongst the civilians
9 waving a white handkerchief. Nearby McGuigan
10 sheltering by a telephone box were a number of
11 civilians. There was also the body of a young man at
12 the southwestern corner of block 1 about 30 yards from
13 McGuigan. Photographs 9 to 10A on contact sheet D
14 shows though scene. I should point out that the grid
15 referenced map attached to this statement does not in
16 my opinion accurately represent the telephone box
17 area. In particular I think that the gap between
18 blocks 1 and 2 is too big and the angle between them is
19 wrong."
20 I will come to those photographs in a moment,
21 I mention them there simply to have them in sequence.
22 As we have seen, Mr Peress said that he made
23 his move less than a minute after the men had
24 disappeared from his view through the gap. There is,
25 however, some evidence that may cast doubt upon that
1 timing. At AN17.2 we will find the evidence of Joseph
2 Alphonsus Nicholas, who was one of those who was
3 crawling through the alleyway between blocks 2 and 3.
4 If we go to EP25.8.1, he identifies himself as being
5 the young man who appears on the annotated version of
6 photograph EP25.8 that is now on the screen. So he was
7 one of those who Mr Peress was taking a photograph of.
8 If we go then back to AN17.4, he says at paragraph 17:
9 "I then headed off south across the Rossville
10 flats car park. I walked along by the high concrete
11 wall which was on the eastern side of the car park.
12 I walked upright at a reasonably quick pace. People on
13 either side of me were crawling along. There was a low
14 wall which ran parallel with the high wall and people
15 were getting cover from that as well. People were
16 heading, as I was, toward the gap between blocks 2 and
17 3. When I got to the end of the low wall there was a
18 set of steps which led down to the lower part of the
19 car park in the southeast corner. At this time I was
20 aware of shots hitting the high concrete wall above my
21 head. They were quite close and I instinctively threw
22 myself towards the steps. I seem to remember landing
23 on someone, although I do not know who and could not
24 describe them. Just as I came down the steps I became
25 aware of a photographer who was lying on his belly in
1 the lower area of the car park, to the north of block 2
2 at point H. He was tight up against a low wall there
3 and was taking photographs. I have since seen the
4 photographs which he was taking [that is obviously
5 Mr Peress].
6 "18. I could still hear shooting so
7 I started to crawl through the gap between blocks 2 and
8 3. I made my way as far as the southeast corner of
9 block 2 where I stood up again. As I looked around the
10 corner towards Glenfada Park South I saw two soldiers
11 standing at the northeastern corner of
12 Glenfada Park South at about point I. I remember that
13 one of them was black. They were both in a firing
14 position facing towards me. They appeared to be
15 squatting down. I did not see them fire any shots."
16 May we have AN17.18, where we will find the
17 map. The photographer of whom he spoke was close down
18 by a wall at point H, which is approximately where
19 Mr Peress was initially; and the soldiers of whom he
20 speaks, at the northeast corner of Glenfada Park South,
21 are at point I on the map at which we are now looking.
22 We need to have in mind J and K to which we will be
23 coming in a moment.
24 Back to AN17.5. At paragraph 19, he says:
25 "Some people were crossing from my position
1 to an alleyway which ran behind the north block of
2 Joseph Place. The entrance to the alleyway is at point
3 J. I would estimate that about half a dozen people
4 came through the gap between blocks 2 and 3 and headed
5 off towards the alleyway. I think they were all men.
6 Because I had seen the soldiers aiming towards me from
7 the Glenfada Park South, I decided to stay where
8 I was.
9 "20. I then saw a man, who I now know to be
10 Paddy Doherty, crawling past me close to the wall which
11 ran parallel with the city walls between block 3 and
12 Joseph Place. I recognised him as one of the people
13 I had passed earlier in the Rossville flats car park
14 although I did not know who he was at the time. He had
15 been crawling along in front of the high concrete walls
16 as I had been walking. He was wearing a blazer jacket
17 and a white hanky over his face.
18 "21. He started to crawl towards the
19 alleyway behind Joseph Place. He was lying on his
20 stomach and crawling along using his elbows. He had
21 got about two-thirds of the way across the gap towards
22 the alleyway behind Joseph Place, to approximately the
23 point marked K, when he was shot. I knew he had been
24 shot because I saw the right-hand side of the back of
25 his coat lift up. He then collapsed onto his face and
1 lay still. I could see that he was lying with his head
2 pointing west, towards the alleyway behind Joseph Place
3 and his feet pointing towards me. Because I had seen
4 the two soldiers at Glenfada Park South, I assumed they
5 had shot him.
6 "22. There was a group of people at the
7 entrance of the alleyway to which Paddy Doherty had
8 been heading. They had already got across the open
9 space and were urging him on before he was hit. One of
10 that group came out to try and rescue Paddy Doherty
11 after he had been shot. I believe that the rescuer was
12 then shot in the leg and he was dragged back into the
13 group in the alleyway. A second person then came out
14 and again appeared to be shot around the legs and
15 dragged back. I believe both of these men were
16 standing up, although they may have been crouching over
17 as they came out. Finally, a third person crawled
18 out. I now know that this man was Paddy Walsh. He got
19 to Paddy Doherty and I believe he whispered something
20 in his ear.
21 "23. I then went back through the gap
22 between blocks 2 and 3, to where I had seen the
23 photographer in the Rossville flats car park. I spoke
24 to him. It was obvious that he was foreign.
25 I conveyed to him that he should come with me to take a
1 photograph of Paddy Doherty. He then followed me back
2 to my position at the southeast corner of block 2 and
3 began to take photographs of Paddy Doherty and Paddy
4 Walsh. I shall refer to the photographs in paragraph
5 28 below.
6 "24. About five or ten minutes elapsed and
7 then the shooting stopped. People started to come out
8 from where they had been taking cover. First aiders
9 came (they may have been Knights of Malta) and tended
10 to Paddy Doherty. I went and looked at Paddy Doherty's
11 body. I did not touch him."
12 If we go to 17.6, we will find paragraph 28
13 where he says this:
14 "I have seen a series of photographs, copies
15 of which are attached to this statement [they are
16 Mr Peress's photographs in the Rossville flats car park
17 and at the south of the Rossville flats]. I believe
18 they were taken by the photographer I saw behind the
19 low wall in front of block 2 on Bloody Sunday."
20 The he identifies himself on one of the
21 photographs which has given rise to the annotated EP
22 photograph we saw a moment ago:
23 "Paddy Doherty in appendix 4 is circled in
24 blue. Appendices 8 to 11 are a series of photographs
25 showing Paddy Doherty lying on his back. The person
1 crawling out to him is Paddy Walsh, the third person
2 I saw go out to help him. I am not sure how Paddy
3 Doherty came to be turned over. When I saw him being
4 shot, he slumped on to his front. I originally
5 believed that these photographs had been taken by the
6 photographer I saw on Bloody Sunday."
7 Pausing there, on that account Mr Nicholas,
8 looking from the gap between block 2 and 3, sees
9 Patrick Doherty crawl past him. Two rescuers come out
10 and both are apparently shot in the leg -- I do not
11 know who either of those are -- and then Mr Walsh is
12 the third rescuer; after which Mr Nicholas himself goes
13 back into the car park and gets the photographer.
14 A process that one might think would last a bit more
15 than a minute, though not necessarily much.
16 If we go to AO55.2, we will find the
17 statement, or a part of the statement, of John Finbar
18 O'Laughlin, who gives an account of the sequence of
19 events before Patrick Doherty died. He was on the
20 gable wall on the east side of Chamberlain Street with
21 a group of other people. At paragraph 9, he says this:
22 "A man in our group, when he realised there
23 was a lull, said 'It is over'. He put his hands above
24 his head and walked south towards the gap between
25 blocks 2 and 3 of the Rossville flats. I cannot recall
1 any particular details about this man. I think that he
2 seemed older than me, perhaps in his mid thirties. He
3 walked with his hands up in the air and, as he got to
4 the gap between blocks 2 and 3, the shooting started
5 again. I could not see him at that time, but I think
6 that he had certainly reached the gap between blocks 2
7 and 3, and was almost through it, when the second burst
8 of shooting started.
9 "10. Then there was another lull in the
10 shooting and, almost instinctively, the rest of us all
11 walked in the same direction that the man had. We all
12 had our hands above our heads. As we reached the gap
13 between blocks 2 and 3, we then saw that the man I have
14 described above had been shot. He was lying down.
15 I knew he was dead -- there was no life about him.
16 I can only surmise that he was either shot from the
17 front (south) of the Rossville flats or from a ricochet
18 bullet from the soldiers on the wasteground at the
19 entrance to the Rossville flats car park, because
20 I think that he was out of view of the soldiers when he
21 was in the gap between blocks 2 and 3. I am unable to
22 say where the shots which I heard as he walked towards
23 the gap came from.
24 "11. I refer to the copy photograph at
25 appendix 2."
1 That is at AO55.5 and shows Patrick Doherty.
2 If we go back to where we were, paragraph 11:
3 " ... On the left of the photograph is the
4 man who walked out, and we later saw him lying on the
5 ground. I cannot say whether this photograph shows the
6 location where I saw him in the gap between blocks 2
7 and 3 of the Rossville flats, though. A few of us,
8 including Jim McFahan and I, walked south past him
9 towards the front of block 2 of the Rossville flats.
10 We then walked west down the front side of block 2. As
11 we did so, I saw a man lying beside a telephone box at
12 the south end of block 1 of the Rossville flats."
13 Then he goes on to give a description of a
14 man who seems almost certainly to be Bernard McGuigan.
15 That is somebody who is in the car park and who saw
16 Patrick Doherty going to the southeast of the car park,
17 though the description of him so doing refers to him
18 walking with his hands in the air; although the
19 photograph shows that, certainly at some stage, in the
20 southeast corner, he was crawling along the wall.
21 We saw yesterday the photographs taken by
22 Mr Peress of Patrick Doherty. In bundle P6 there are a
23 series of photographs, beginning at 708, of Patrick
24 Doherty on the day. This is a photograph at the
25 barrier and he is, I believe, the gentleman to whom
1 I am pointing. The photographs that follow in this
2 part of P6 -- which, for those who look at it in hard
3 copy, is to be found at tab 12 of that bundle -- are
4 the photographs of Mr Peress; firstly page 709, the
5 sequence that begins with that photograph. We will not
6 look through the sequence again.
7 Then at 714, the sequence that begins south
8 of the Rossville flats. Again, we will not look at
9 that sequence a second time.
10 But there are also, included in these
11 photographs, two photographs taken by Mr Grimaldi which
12 show the same scene. One is at 717. That is
13 photograph EP26.19, but is included in this section of
14 photographs because it is the section that relates to
15 Patrick Doherty.
16 719, which is EP26.17, is also taken by
17 Mr Grimaldi. There is a geographical feature that is
18 referred to in some of the evidence, namely that to the
19 west of Mr Doherty and Mr Walsh there is an area of
20 brickwork of brickwork in the middle of which there is
21 a tree. To the north of the brickwork the ground on
22 which the paving stones are laid falls, so that the
23 brickwork stands proud of the paving stones. That is a
24 feature to which reference is made in some of the
25 evidence to which we shall come in due course. If one
1 goes back to, for instance, photograph 715, it may be
2 clearest. We can see the beginning of the brickwork on
3 the right-hand side of the photograph.
4 If one looks at these photographs, in
5 particular a photograph such as 717, they might be
6 thought to indicate that Patrick Doherty was lying
7 approximately equidistant between the first two sets of
8 stanchions. If you look at 717, that impression seems
9 all the greater. But, as we can see from photograph
10 720 which we saw on an earlier occasion, it would
11 appear that he is in fact much closer to the second
12 stanchion to the east and very close to the alleyway
13 which is in the background behind.
14 Another witness, or a witness who is or may
15 be an eyewitness to the death of Patrick Doherty is
16 John Gallagher. At AG17.3 we will find his statement.
17 He describes, in paragraph 13, the canopy over the
18 pavement:
19 " ... which runs alongside the parade of
20 shops on the south facade of block 2 of the Rossville
21 flats. I hit the deck and started crawling on my
22 stomach, using my elbows, along the pavement below the
23 canopy towards the gap between blocks 2 and 3 of the
24 Rossville flats."
25 He is on that account crawling from the west
1 to the east along the south of block 2.
2 Then he says this:
3 "14. When I had reached about halfway along
4 block 2, nearly level with the alleyway which runs
5 along the eastern side of Joseph Place, one of the
6 group of four or six fellows who were behind me said
7 that he was going to cross over to that alleyway."
8 Pausing there, the alleyway which runs along
9 the eastern side of Joseph Place, by which I assume he
10 means the alleyway at the back of the Joseph Place
11 houses, is some way further than half away along block
12 2.
13 Never mind; take the statement in its own
14 terms. He says that:
15 "One of the group of four or six fellas who
16 were behind me said that he was going to cross over to
17 that alleyway. When the man said that he was going
18 across, I turned round to half face him and talk to
19 him. I did not know him then but I have since found
20 out his name was Patrick Doherty. I tried to persuade
21 him not to cross over, but to continue towards the
22 corner of block 2 and the gap between blocks 2 and 3,
23 but he did not agree. He started making his way over
24 to the alleyway. He was lying on his belly and pulling
25 himself along with his elbows. I heard two or three
1 sharp cracks of gunfire and I saw shots hitting a wall
2 ahead of me at the point I have marked E on the
3 attached map."
4 AG17.16 is the attached map. That shows
5 point E at the point that you would expect it to be,
6 namely the wall on the east side. Back to where we
7 were. Halfway through paragraph 14:
8 "I threw myself on my back close up against
9 the facade of block 2 and looked northwest towards
10 Glenfada Park North. I saw three soldiers kneeling out
11 in the open in the approximate position I have marked F
12 on the attached map [that is at the mouth of Glenfada
13 Park North]. I have also marked their approximate
14 positions on the attached photograph marked A. I saw
15 their uniforms and their helmets, but I did not
16 actually see them fire their weapons, although I was
17 sure at the time that the man who was hit had been shot
18 by the three soldiers. As soon as I saw the soldiers,
19 they lowered their rifles from the aim position (butts
20 of the rifles at their cheeks) and got up and moved
21 away. At about that time the man who had started
22 crawling towards Joseph Place cried out that he had
23 been shot and that he could not move. I tried to
24 persuade him to keep moving if he could.
25 "15. Just then one of the other men who was
1 crawling along behind me started to go out to the aid
2 of Patrick Doherty.
3 "16. I think this man was also shot at, but
4 I do not think he was injured. A further man, whom
5 I later was told was Alexander Nash, although I was not
6 able to identify him myself, went out to their aid.
7 The third man was shot in the hip or buttock. I did
8 not see who shot at him.
9 "17. I carried on heading towards the corner
10 of the southern gable end of block 2 and when I reached
11 there I took cover."
12 There are a number of problems in relation to
13 this account. Firstly, the description of Patrick
14 Doherty crawling behind this witness, going in an
15 easterly direction along the south of block 2, is
16 inconsistent with a substantial body of evidence, and
17 the photographs, which show him in the southeast corner
18 of the car park of the Rossville flats.
19 Secondly, nobody else suggests that
20 Alexander Nash went to the aid of Patrick Doherty and
21 the evidence of this witness is not that he identified
22 Alexander Nash as doing so, but that somebody told him
23 that the man he was talking about was Alexander Nash.
24 Thirdly, there is a reference to a third man
25 of those who started to go out to the aid of Patrick
1 Doherty being shot in the hip or buttock. I do not
2 know who that could be, in the sense that there is
3 nobody described as a rescuer of Patrick Doherty who
4 was so shot -- apart from, I think, in this
5 paragraph -- though it may in fact be referring to
6 Daniel McGowan.
7 If we go to AG17.9, we will see the
8 photograph upon which he identifies the approximate
9 position of the soldiers at Glenfada Park North by
10 three X's. It is, as we can see, at the mouth of the
11 Glenfada Park North car park.
12 Another witness to Patrick Doherty's death,
13 and who gave evidence to Lord Widgery, was the late
14 Derrik Tucker who lived in block 2 in 31 Garvan Place.
15 His bedroom lay towards Chamberlain Street and his
16 living room towards Joseph Place. His evidence to
17 Lord Widgery is that from his living room window he saw
18 two men in the alleyway behind the Joseph Place
19 maisonettes, who appeared to be wounded because they
20 were helped into the second house along that alleyway.
21 He then noticed a man directly beneath the window,
22 known to him when he came to give evidence to be
23 Paddy Doherty, crawl out towards that alleyway. A
24 further shot then rang out. The man gave a kick with
25 his right leg and lay still.
1 If we go to Widgery transcript, Day 7, page
2 10 at D, second half of the page:
3 "Answer: ... There is a small alleyway that
4 runs the whole length of those flats behind the
5 gardens. It was in this alleyway that these men were
6 lying."
7 He identified it in aerial photograph 6,
8 which is EP21.6. At E he was asked this:
9 "Question: Do you know who any of those men
10 were?
11 Answer: No, but two of them who appeared to
12 be shot were helped into the house, into those
13 maisonettes ...
14 Question: Did these men appear to be shot
15 dead or wounded?
16 Answer: No, wounded because they were able
17 too walk when they were arrested.
18 Question: Continue with what you were going
19 to say.
20 Answer: I then noticed a man directly
21 beneath the window start to crawl out towards the
22 alleyway itself when a further shot rang out. He gave
23 a kick with his right leg and then lay still.
24 Question: Did you ascertain subsequently who
25 that man was?
1 Answer: That man was Paddy Doherty.
2 Lord Widgery: Would you show me on the
3 photograph where Mr Doherty lay? [He did so] The
4 position that he describes is midway between the rear
5 edge of Rossville flats and the wall which runs from
6 Joseph Place back towards the car park. There is an
7 open area between Rossville flats and Joseph Place. He
8 puts Mr Doherty central in that area as between the
9 flats and Joseph Place, but one eighth of the way up
10 from the eastern end of that open area.
11 Mr Gibbens: My imagination is not
12 sufficiently vivid.
13 Lord Widgery: Let me mark your plan. I have
14 put a large blue dot in the place. You will find it is
15 exactly as I described."
16 The large blue dot in the place has not
17 survived. The photograph they were all looking at is
18 EP21.6. What I take the witness, as interpreted by
19 Lord Widgery, to be pointing to is midway between the
20 rear edge of the Rossville flats, which is where I am
21 pointing, and the wall which runs from Joseph Place
22 back towards the car park, which is again where I am
23 pointing. Lord Widgery says he puts Mr Doherty central
24 in that area as between the flats and Joseph Place, but
25 one eighth of the way up from the eastern end of that
1 open area, which I assume is approximately in line with
2 the alleyway that leads behind Joseph Place. That is
3 consistent with all the photographs we have seen, or
4 near enough thereto.
5 In addition to Derrik Tucker, two of his sons
6 were watching at this time, who did not give evidence
7 to Lord Widgery but who have made statements for the
8 assistance of this Tribunal. Martin, then aged 17, has
9 made a statement which takes the matter a little
10 further. It which appears at AT17.5. He was looking
11 out of a south-facing kitchen. At paragraph 32 he
12 describes matters as follows:
13 "I saw two men running close together along
14 the front of block 2 of the Rossville flats by the
15 shops (from northwest to southeast). I thought they
16 were running to the alleyway behind Joseph Place. I
17 did not see them carrying anything. They were shot
18 before they got there, at the point marked J on the
19 map. I thought they were only shot in the leg. It was
20 so strange, it was almost like watching a movie. They
21 managed to get to safety. I think they got into the
22 alleyway behind Joseph Place or into a house. (I think
23 a couple of people helped them). The men were in their
24 thirties maybe. They were not old men, but they were
25 not teenagers. I do not remember anything about what
1 they were wearing."
2 AT17.16 will show us where point J is. It is
3 just at the back wall of the gardens of Joseph Place.
4 Going back to 17.5, he says at paragraph 33:
5 "I could not see where the men were shot
6 from, however. I remember commenting at the time that,
7 from the sound of the shots, the soldiers must have
8 been well down south on Rossville Street, maybe as far
9 as Glenfada Park South. Soldiers had never come past
10 the rubble barricade before. Since that day, I have
11 heard talk about firing from the city walls. That did
12 not even occur to me at the time. I thought the
13 shooting was coming from the direction of
14 Rossville Street and Glenfada Park South.
15 "34. There was a lot of confusion, shouts
16 and squeals. I heard several shots in rapid succession
17 but it was not machine-gun. I did not hear any nail
18 bombs or big explosions then or at any time that day.
19 "35. I was moving between the kitchen and
20 the living room windows. I saw another man who I now
21 know to be Paddy Doherty creeping along the ground in
22 front of the fish shop, which was directly beneath our
23 kitchen and living room windows, trying to get to the
24 alleyway behind Joseph Place. The man was wearing a
25 jacket, I think it was checked, with a fur collar. He
1 had dark hair and a moustache. I do not remember him
2 wearing a scarf or gloves or having his face covered.
3 There was nothing in his hands. Although he was
4 crawling slowly, he seemed to be fine at that stage.
5 He was about halfway between the shops and the alleyway
6 at point K on the map, when his right leg jerked out.
7 It looked like a spasm. I assumed he was shot in his
8 right-hand side because it was his right leg that
9 jerked. I could not see any blood but I knew
10 immediately that he was dead. He lay face down on his
11 stomach with his arms out in front of him. I did not
12 hear him say anything.
13 "37. A couple of people in the alleyway
14 behind Joseph Place tried crawling out to help him.
15 I think they tried two or three times and called out to
16 him, but had to give up because the shooting
17 continued. They were obviously very distressed because
18 they had to give up and watch someone dying in front of
19 them.
20 "37. I thought he had been shot by someone
21 who must have been well up by Glenfada Park South. The
22 next day you could see bullet holes along the wall in
23 the area that ran parallel to Fahan Street East."
24 That is evidence of Patrick Doherty being
25 shot, apparently from the Rossville Street direction,
1 and a couple of people in the alleyway trying to crawl
2 towards him; and, prior thereto, of two thirty year
3 olds, or thereabouts, running from the shops to the
4 alley and being shot in the leg before they got there.
5 It may be that there is somebody who either
6 was, or appeared to be -- or possibly more than one
7 person who was -- shot, at any rate appeared to be, at
8 this alleyway, approaching it or near to it. If there
9 is such a person, as I say, he is not someone whom we
10 have yet identified or whom any witness has by name
11 identified to us.
12 The second Tucker son who was watching was
13 Derrik, who was the younger brother of Martin. His
14 statement -- he was 12 at the time -- appears at
15 AT15.10. He says this at paragraph 26:
16 "As the courtyard cleared of people, the
17 family moved to the other side of the flat to see what
18 was happening. Almost immediately my attention was
19 drawn to a man who was crawling from the direction of
20 the alleyway between blocks 2 and 3 of the flats
21 towards the northeast corner of the maisonettes at
22 Joseph Place. He had short dark hair and was wearing
23 dark trousers, but I cannot remember much else about
24 him. I could see another man who was standing just
25 behind the gable wall at the northeast end of Joseph
1 Place. He was a balding man wearing a handkerchief
2 around his neck. I now know him to be Paddy Walsh. He
3 is the same man who appears in the attached
4 photograph."
5 It says "reference EP35/16". I think that is
6 a misprint for "EP25/16", which is one of the
7 photographs showing Patrick Walsh:
8 "He appeared to be signalling to people in
9 the alleyway between blocks 2 and 3 to indicate when it
10 was safe to cross the open ground between the alleyway
11 and Joseph Place.
12 "27. The man who I saw crawling reached a
13 position approximately midway between the alleyway at
14 blocks 2 and 3 and the gable end wall of Joseph Place.
15 I heard three or four gunshots in quick succession.
16 I have mark the position of the crawling man at the
17 time that I heard the shots at D. I saw some dust or
18 smoke rising from the wall to his left-hand side, i.e.
19 the wall which was parallel to the gable end of block 2
20 and continues in a southwesterly direction behind the
21 maisonettes at Joseph Place. (The next day I went to
22 look at the wall at the same position and saw that
23 there were bullet marks on it. The approximate
24 position of the bullet holes is marked on the map at
25 E). It seemed to me that the shots came from the
1 direction of Glenfada Park or Rossville Street,
2 although I did not see a soldier in that general area
3 at the time the shots were fired."
4 The map is AT15.21. The shot man is at D and
5 the place where the bullet holes were seen is at E.
6 Going back to AT15.10, the bottom half of the page,
7 last paragraph:
8 "28. At the same time the shots were fired,
9 the man who I had seen crawling jerked as if he was
10 having a spasm. He then stopped crawling and lay flat
11 on his stomach. I believe that he is the other person
12 shown in the photograph attached to the statement which
13 also shows Paddy Walsh. (EP25/16). I have been told
14 that the man's name is Paddy Doherty, one of the men
15 who was killed on Bloody Sunday. I believe, from what
16 I have just said, that I witnessed the shot that killed
17 him. I do not recall hearing any gunfire following the
18 incident I have just referred to. However, at about
19 the same time I noticed a group of people taking cover
20 behind a wall about two feet high that ran parallel to
21 the rear of the maisonettes at Joseph Place. I have
22 marked the approximate position of these people at F.
23 These people were crouched behind the wall and seemed
24 to me to be taking cover. They were well protected by
25 the maisonettes from any gunfire which may have come
1 from the direction of Glenfada Park or
2 Rossville Street. I therefore assumed that they had
3 been shot at from a different direction. There was an
4 Army observation point situated on the city walls above
5 them and I assumed that they were being fired on from
6 there.
7 "29. On 1st February 1972 I made a statement
8 at St. Eugene's Girl's Primary School [he gives details
9 about all that]. The statement that I made contains a
10 number of details which I cannot now remember.
11 However, I believe that the statement, which was made
12 very shortly after Bloody Sunday, is an accurate
13 account of what I saw."
14 If we go to that statement, it will be,
15 I hope, at AT15.20. If we could have the bottom half
16 of the page, in the penultimate paragraph he says this:
17 "Meanwhile, as this was going on [that is the
18 events relating to Father Daly], the rest of the crowd
19 had run round to the shops on the ground floor of the
20 flats. Within seconds they had to flee as more
21 Paratroopers appeared from Glenfada Park. Most of the
22 youths ran behind the maisonettes through a small
23 alleyway. Again they were fired upon by the troops in
24 the observation post on the Derry walls. As the last
25 three youths entered the alleyway the first two fell
1 with shots in the legs but crawled on in. The last one
2 was crawling in and a shot rang out and he fell. He
3 lay still but there was no sign of a wound. A man of
4 between 40 or 50, slightly bald, crawled out and asked
5 for his hand. There was no response so he pulled him
6 in by the head, but he had to retreat into the alleyway
7 as more shots rang out. Some other men came out to try
8 and see where he was wounded, but they too had to
9 retreat. After the shooting ended the men carried him
10 down to the ambulance. He was dead."
11 That is an account of two youths falling with
12 shots in the leg, but managing to crawl on into the
13 alleyway; and the last one was crawling in and a shot
14 rang out and he fell, and he is the man who ends up
15 dead. So this account at the time also referred to two
16 youths falling with shots in their legs. It also
17 referred to fire by troops in the observation post,
18 contrary to what appears to be the content of his
19 statement to this Tribunal as to firing from the west.
20 If we go back to AT15.5, what he says about
21 that in paragraph 30, the third line:
22 "The points in my earlier statement which
23 I cannot remember are as follows: I do not remember
24 seeing two youths fall as mentioned in the second
25 paragraph of the statement, nor do I remember seeing
1 Paratroopers at Glenfada Park, or seeing two youths
2 being shot in the legs as mentioned in the fourth
3 paragraph of the statement. Further, I have no memory
4 of the matters referred to in the final paragraph of
5 the statement involving the ambulance and
6 Father Mulvey."
7 There are a number of other witnesses who saw
8 Patrick Doherty crawl along the ground below block 2.
9 One eyewitness to his death is Edward Dillon, whose
10 evidence is at AD45.2 and whose evidence we saw in
11 relation to Daniel McGowan. When we saw it there was a
12 paragraph that I said I would revert to and I now do so
13 because he referred in his evidence to running to the
14 alleyway behind Joseph Place where a man, whom he later
15 discovered to be Daniel McGowan, arrived behind him
16 and, as Mr Dillon was about to run off, said that he
17 had been shot. Then at paragraph 9 he said this:
18 "Just as we were about to move the wounded
19 man, I saw another man lying on the ground at about the
20 point market 5 on the attached map. He was lying on
21 his stomach with his feet towards the Fahan steps and
22 his head pointing towards Joseph Place. He called to
23 us 'Hold on -- I will assist you'. He was crawling
24 towards us. I could see his hands and he was not
25 holding anything. As he shouted he was shot. The
1 shooting had not really stopped but I heard specific
2 shots from the direction of the city walls. He pressed
3 himself up on his hands and I could see blood on his
4 shirt. I think it was on the left-hand side of his
5 chest. He then collapsed down. He was about 20 to 25
6 feet away from the steps leading from Joseph Place to
7 Fahan Street East and about 20 feet from the corner of
8 the wall at Joseph Place where I was standing. Years
9 later, I learned that this man was Paddy Doherty. He
10 was one to two years older than me. He was wearing a
11 shirt, no tie, when I saw him."
12 If we go to paragraph 15, which is at the
13 bottom of this page, he says:
14 "I am certain that both Daniel McGowan and
15 the man lying on the ground (who I now believe to be
16 Patrick Doherty) were shot from the city walls. When
17 I was standing in the alleyway behind Joseph Place,
18 I heard the sound of shots coming from the city walls.
19 From where Daniel McGowan was standing I cannot see how
20 he could have been shot from anywhere else. I cannot
21 remember looking up to the walls. I was conscious of
22 shooting from other directions including the Rossville
23 flats."
24 That evidence provides, if accurate, an
25 useful insight as to the timing of various shootings,
1 in this sense: Patrick Campbell appears to have been
2 shot first; I say that because Daniel McGowan saw that
3 happening. Then after Daniel McGowan, according to his
4 evidence, had tried to assist Patrick Campbell, he
5 himself was shot. Then, as this evidence shows, the
6 next person to be shot was Patrick Doherty, because
7 that is the sequence this witness, Edward Dillon,
8 describes. So that may enable us to fit the sequence
9 of events in this sector. Edward Dillon there
10 expresses the certainty that both Daniel McGowan and
11 Patrick Doherty were shot from the city walls.
12 An equally emphatic account places the shot
13 that killed Patrick Doherty as coming from the
14 Glenfada Park area. That is to be found in the
15 evidence of Donna Harkin at AH13.5. She lived in a
16 flat on the second and third floors of block 2. At
17 paragraph 33 of her statement, the bottom half of the
18 page, she says this:
19 "There was a man lying wounded below the
20 kitchen window at the approximate position marked 22 on
21 the map [that is midway between block 2 and the
22 alleyway to the east of Joseph Place]. I think he had
23 been shot. He was lying on his stomach with his head
24 facing south towards the alleyway, east of
25 Joseph Place, the entrance to which is at the point
1 marked 23. He was an elderly man, 30 to 40 -- my
2 parents' age. I did not see any blood but could see he
3 had nothing in his hands.
4 "34. As this man was making his way south,
5 across towards Joseph Place, I was also watching a
6 group of four or five men crawl in a line from behind
7 the eastern gable end of block 2 of the Rossville flats
8 towards the alleyway east of Joseph Place. Most of
9 them reached the alleyway to the rear of Joseph Place
10 before the elderly man and they helped to pull him
11 behind Joseph Place. One man was lying behind the
12 elderly man. That man was lying on his stomach in the
13 approximate position marked 22, with his feet facing
14 towards block 2 and his head facing the entrance to the
15 alleyway. He helped the elderly man to reach safety by
16 pushing his feet. I now know that this man was Paddy
17 Doherty.
18 "35. After the elderly man had reached
19 safety and had been pulled in by the other two to three
20 men to the alleyway to the east of the Rossville flats,
21 Mr Doherty remained lying on his stomach in roughly the
22 position which I have marked on the map. He did not
23 move. All the time, the shooting continued.
24 "36. Mrs McCallion and I could not
25 understand why Mr Doherty was not moving towards the
1 safe area to the east of Joseph Place. We shouted to
2 him from the kitchen window to move. He was only about
3 six to eight feet from Joseph Place. I could see the
4 men already sheltering in the alleyway to the east of
5 Joseph Place also shouting to him. I think that some
6 of them were shouting at him to come to them and others
7 were telling him to stay where he was. We could hear
8 screaming from the direction of Glenfada Park but
9 I kept concentrating on Paddy, despite the noise from
10 elsewhere.
11 "37. There was a tree, which was surrounded
12 by a bricked area, in the approximate position marked
13 24. I saw a bullet hit the northwest facing side of
14 the brick area. Because of the way the bricked area
15 was hit, I felt that the shooting was coming from the
16 Glenfada Park area."
17 This is, I think, a reference to the feature
18 that I was referring to a little earlier, of which a
19 different and perhaps more informative view appears at
20 photograph 323. That shows, looking from the west,
21 what I believe is the bricked area to which this
22 witness is referring. We can see the two sets of
23 stanchions and the alleyway, in this photograph there
24 is a man looking round from the corner of the
25 alleyway. We can see the tree in the middle of the
1 bricked area. One can also see how the brickwork
2 increases in height as the surrounding land slopes, so
3 that at its west face there are four bricks' worth in
4 height of the structure in which, in this photograph,
5 two young men are taking cover beneath, or at least
6 sitting beneath.
7 What I think this witness is saying is that
8 she saw a bullet hit the facing side of the brick area,
9 that is to say the side of four bricks in height which
10 is depicted on this photograph. Mr Doherty's body
11 ended up somewhere approximately where I am pointing,
12 almost in line with the alleyway to the south.
13 If we go back to where we were, which was
14 AH13.6, at paragraph 38 she says this:
15 "After a matter of minutes, to the best of my
16 recollection, Mr Doherty lifted his right knee, which
17 was nearest to me, as though he was going to move
18 towards the alleyway to the east of Joseph Place. At
19 that moment I saw a bullet enter the bottom of his
20 right buttock. I saw the entry wound. Mr Doherty
21 jolted. His body jerked off the ground. He landed on
22 his front in the same position that he had been lying
23 with his head towards the alleyway east of Joseph Place
24 and his feet towards block 2 of the Rossville flats.
25 There was no doubt in my mind, because of the angle at
1 which the bullet entered Mr Doherty, that he had been
2 shot from the Glenfada Park area. I did not see any
3 blood or any wound apart from the entry wound.
4 However, I could see the colour draining from his
5 face."
6 The Tribunal will recall that the medical
7 evidence shows Mr Doherty was shot in the right buttock
8 and that the bullet exited his left chest, which is
9 where one of the previous witnesses said that he saw
10 blood, and that he was probably in a kneeling position
11 at the time that he was shot -- rather he was bending
12 forward or on all fours at the time that he was shot.
13 Mrs Harkin says the following:
14 "I went hysterical. I had a rosary in my
15 hands and I tried to climb out of the kitchen window on
16 to the canopy to get down to the ground to help
17 Mr Doherty. I got my leg out of the window, but
18 Mrs McCallion pulled me back in. I could hear
19 Mr Doherty calling out saying that he did not want to
20 be alone and that he needed help. Mrs McCallion was
21 trying to calm me by saying he had only fainted.
22 "40. I could see a balding man who was
23 probably in his 40s trying to reach Mr Doherty. He was
24 crawling out on his stomach north from the opening of
25 the alleyway to the east of Joseph Place. Although for
1 five minutes he tried to reach Mr Doherty, he could not
2 make it because of the continuous shooting from the
3 Glenfada Park area. I now know that man was Mr Patrick
4 Walsh.
5 "41. After about five minutes the shooting
6 stopped. Mr Walsh eventually reached Mr Doherty and
7 turned him on to his back. I have been shown the
8 photograph, which is attached and numbered 3, which
9 shows the scene that I witnessed after Mr Walsh, who is
10 shown, turned Mr Doherty on his back."
11 That photograph is at AH13.11. That is the
12 photograph she is identifying, which is described in
13 the evidence as at a time after Mr Doherty had been
14 turned on his back by Mr Walsh. It is of course
15 obvious from the photograph that he was on his back,
16 but this photograph is a series of photographs, as we
17 have already seen this morning and yesterday, of
18 Mr Walsh approaching Mr Doherty. So unless, which is
19 not impossible, he went out twice, he cannot have,
20 I think, turned Mr Doherty over before this photograph.
21 We go back to AH13.7, at paragraph 42, she
22 says:
23 "It was obvious that Mr Doherty was dead.
24 I wanted to go home. I ran up the stairs of the flat,
25 walked out of the front door onto the balcony, turned
1 left and walked west along the balcony towards my
2 house. I looked north out across the courtyard, which
3 seemed to be deserted apart from the two Saracens still
4 parked at the end of Chamberlain Street with just the
5 two soldiers standing by them. As I walked along the
6 balcony I kept my hands on my head so that the soldiers
7 could see that I was not armed. I was very unsteady on
8 my feet. I was so scared my knees were buckling. The
9 soldiers were still in the courtyard and at the end of
10 Chamberlain Street and were still in full view, taking
11 no cover."
12 As we have seen, the man who went to the
13 assistance of Patrick Doherty, or one of the men who
14 went to the assistance of Patrick Doherty, and the one
15 who appears in the photographs, was Patrick Walsh. His
16 account does not say that he turned Patrick Doherty
17 over on to his back, or that he approached him twice.
18 We can find it at AW5.2, where there is to be found his
19 statement to this Tribunal, the bottom half of the
20 page, paragraph 12, where he says this:
21 "At some stage during the commotion when
22 I was getting away [this is in the car park of the
23 Rossville flats] a smaller fellow than me was also
24 trying to get away, but he was panicking. I pulled him
25 down to the ground and lay on top of him so that he
1 could not move. It could be that this is shown in
2 photographs A and B attached to my statement."
3 Photograph A is at AW5.5. It is a copy of
4 EP25.8, and not a very good one. Perhaps if we could
5 have EP25.8 it would be easier. The person who looks
6 to be Mr Walsh is there in EP25.8, the man second from
7 the right. If we go to EP25.7, he appears to be the
8 man on the right-hand corner. If we go back to where
9 we were at AW5.2, paragraph 12, the fourth line shall
10 he said:
11 "There was shooting going on at the time.
12 I can remember lying on top of this man, but cannot
13 remember where. I think someone then shouted 'They
14 have stopped', so I let the man go and he ran away.
15 Then the crowd behind me started running again so I got
16 up to run. I was running with the crowd, probably
17 through the alleyway of blocks 2 and 3 and towards a
18 wall to find shelter. I cannot remember passing anyone
19 who was crawling, but I only had one intention, to
20 reach cover. All of a sudden I remember hearing a
21 thud. It was like the sound of someone falling. I did
22 not know whether someone had fainted. I did not hear a
23 shot. I stopped and turned around to go and help the
24 man. Fellows were passing me shouting, 'They are
25 shooting at us, they are shooting at us, get out'.
1 I went to the body to try to do something for him.
2 I did not care what was going on around me. I have no
3 idea where I was, but I remember creeping out towards
4 the body. As I was crawling out a lady shouted to me,
5 probably from the Rossville flats, 'Paddy, get down'.
6 The lady must have known me. I stopped crawling and
7 put my head down for a moment. The photographs of me
8 crawling out to the body are shown in the sequence
9 attached to this statement as photographs C to F [they
10 are the Peress series of photographs]. I was the first
11 person to go out to him.
12 "13. I continued to crawl out towards the
13 body. I remember seeing his feet. His head was
14 pointed towards the direction of the telephone box in
15 front of the Rossville flats. I did not see the
16 telephone box that day, only his shoes. He was lying
17 on his back, face up. I think he was wearing a donkey
18 jacket. I did not know the man.
19 "14. I reached the body and began to search
20 him. I wanted to find if there was anything on him
21 that would tell me who he was. There was not
22 anything. I put my hand to his head and lifted him.
23 I could not tell whether he was dead when I lifted him,
24 but he did not move. He did not speak to me. I could
25 not see if his eyes were open. I thought that he was
1 dying. I remember thinking 'If he moves maybe he is
2 not dead' but he did not move. I would say that he was
3 dead by the time I reached him.
4 "15. I also searched him looking for weapons
5 because I thought that he must be armed or why else
6 would he have been shot. I did not find any. Indeed,
7 I do not remember finding anything on him, but a few
8 years later someone told me, perhaps his sister-in-law
9 or his wife, that he had his wage packet on him.
10 I also looked for a rosary on him but there was
11 nothing. I could not even see a wound or any blood.
12 I searched every pocket. I was thinking to myself 'Why
13 has he been shot? It could have been me.' I lifted his
14 head to say a prayer to him. I did not have my rosary
15 on me that day. It was in my works clothes and I
16 remember being angry about that. I said a prayer over
17 his body. As I was lying there with him I heard the
18 whoosh of bullets going over my head, but I did not
19 realise they were bullets at the time. I did not see
20 any other injured people whilst I was down. I was just
21 concentrating on the one man and I was oblivious to all
22 else.
23 "16 I did not hear him say 'Do not let me die
24 on my own.' I did not hear him say anything.
25 "17. After a while people started coming out
1 and I remember someone saying that the body I was with
2 was Paddy Doherty. That man was taken away crying.
3 That is when I knew who it was.
4 "18. I do not remember what I did after
5 that, but I think that I must have got up and walked
6 towards another body lying in front of block 2 ...
7 I later learnt that it was the body of Barney
8 McGuigan. I wonder now whether he was hit by one of
9 the bullets that I heard whoosh past my head whilst
10 I was on the ground. My memory of this is poor and my
11 memory of the body may be of having seen photographs
12 subsequently, though I do not think so.
13 "19. Some other men and me carried Paddy
14 Doherty's body to an ambulance which was not very far
15 away. I cannot remember seeing a wound on him even as
16 we carried him to the ambulance. After Bloody Sunday
17 I heard that Paddy Doherty was shot in the buttock, but
18 at the time I had no idea where he was shot. I think
19 I may have helped carry two other bodies to an
20 ambulance too. I have a vague memory of this."
21 As is apparent from that account, Mr Walsh
22 reckons that he was the first person to go out to him.
23 His account does not refer to anybody else going out to
24 him and also refers to the fact that when he went out
25 to him, as the photographs show, Patrick Doherty was
1 lying on his back. It is unclear how Patrick Doherty
2 came to be lying on his back, assuming, as for the
3 moment I do because a substantial body of evidence
4 indicates it, that he fell upon his face, as would be
5 consistent with somebody who was shot in the behind
6 when he had previously been crawling on all fours.
7 Nor does the statement indicate precisely
8 where the bullets which whooshed over his head were
9 thought to be coming from. There is a witness, John
10 Martin Campbell, whose evidence is at AC14 at page 4,
11 where he says this:
12 "18. We got to the gap between blocks 2 and
13 3 and hurried south through it. When we got through
14 the gap there were two men lying at an angle with each
15 other. Their heads were nearest together. I was at
16 point L and the two men were at point M. The position
17 where the bodies were lying is marked with arrows at
18 point M on the map. The arrows represent the heads of
19 the bodies. I have since learnt that the man marked N
20 was Paddy Walsh and the man marked P was Paddy
21 Doherty. Paddy Doherty was lying on his tummy and
22 I could only see his feet. He was not doing anything.
23 I did not think at the time he was dead but looking
24 back now I do not know whether he was dead or not.
25 Paddy Walsh was lying with his head facing towards us.
1 He was the older of the two men. He had a bald head
2 and was in his late fifties."
3 Then he identifies two photographs, the
4 second of which shows them in the position that he saw
5 them. That is one of the Peress photographs:
6 "Paddy Walsh shouted to us that there was
7 shooting coming from the city walls. He shouted to us
8 to get down so we all got down to the ground between
9 blocks 2 and 3. We lay there for possibly five or ten
10 minutes and I did not move because there was shooting
11 going over our heads. The shooting was definitely Army
12 fire. At the time I had no idea where the shooting was
13 coming from, but with hindsight I think the shooting
14 must have come from the city walls. I now think that
15 the shooting must have been coming from the city walls
16 because I knew it was Army fire and the Army were not
17 in the area where I was.
18 Pausing there, if, as the medical evidence
19 shows, Patrick Doherty was shot in the right buttock at
20 the spot which is indicated by the photograph, very
21 nearly in line with the alleyway at the back of
22 Joseph Place and between block 2 and the Joseph Place
23 gardens rear wall, it seems, one might think,
24 impossible for him to have been shot from the city
25 walls.
1 There is evidence that we saw yesterday, in
2 the statement of Peter McLaughlin, to a man who came
3 out to Paddy Doherty coming out and having to retreat,
4 having turned the body over on to its back the first
5 time when that person came out. There is not
6 dissimilar evidence from William Harley whose
7 statement, for these purposes, may be found at AH36.4.
8 He was looking through his living room window at the
9 top of block 2. At paragraph 20, he says:
10 "When I looked out of my living room window
11 I saw a second body lying between block 2 of the
12 Rossville flats and Joseph Place at point G on the
13 attached map. He was lying near a low wall which ran
14 along the backyards of the maisonettes in
15 Joseph Place.
16 "21. The body was face down with the head
17 pointing towards the steps and the feet pointing
18 towards the northwestern corner of block 2 of the
19 Rossville flats. The body had a car coat at about
20 thigh length which I think was grey coloured.
21 I watched as a man came out of the alleyway behind the
22 maisonettes in Joseph Place and shuffle towards the
23 body. My recollection is that the man went to the head
24 of the body on the side nearest the alleyway, almost in
25 line with the alleyway from which he had come. When he
1 reached point H he was fired on. I saw the bullets hit
2 the ground to the west of the body. I am certain they
3 came from the city walls, the top edge of which I could
4 see from the window. I had seen shots fired from the
5 walls on many occasions and was able to recognise when
6 they came from there by the direction in which the dust
7 flew when the bullets hit the ground. There is no
8 question that in the scene I have related the shots
9 came from the walls. I think there were four or five
10 shots. The man turned and flung himself back into the
11 alleyway behind Joseph Place from where he had come.
12 "22. I did not see the man turn the body
13 over to face upwards, but I know he turned it over
14 because my friend, Paddy McCrudden, who was watching
15 out of the same living room window, said to me 'Holy
16 Jesus it is the skelper'. 'Skelper' was a nickname
17 given to a part of the Doherty clan which comprised
18 about four or five families. The body was Paddy
19 Doherty who was a pipe fitter's mate at Dupont, which
20 is where Paddy McCrudden knew him from. From where
21 I was the body looked dead. It was the colour of dirty
22 wax though I cannot recall any blood around the body.
23 "23. From where I was standing in the living
24 room looking out I could see a group of people
25 sheltering in the alleyway behind Joseph Place and
1 I watched as the same man came out a second time toward
2 the body at point G. This time he was crawling. He
3 was at right angles to the body at point G and he tried
4 to give the body the kiss of life. I recognised the
5 man's face and think he is called Paddy. He had a
6 round face with a sallow, warthy complexion and was
7 going bald. He was doing the most unselfish action
8 I think I have ever seen. I had the greatest
9 admiration and respect for him and I was terrified that
10 he would be shot. I believe that the sequence of
11 photographs depicting the scene I have described, which
12 were shown to me at this interview and which are
13 attached to this statement, were taken the second time
14 the man came out from the alley, as the first time he
15 ventured out he was driven back by the gunfire.
16 "24. I stopped watching because one of the
17 children who was sheltering in my flat said 'I think
18 there are more dead over there.'"
19 It is possible in the light of that evidence
20 that Mr Walsh in fact went out twice -- on the first
21 occasion he turned Patrick Doherty round and then went
22 out on a second occasion -- for it seems highly likely
23 that the description in paragraph 23 is of Patrick
24 Walsh; both the Christian name and the description of
25 the facial features tally, and this witness says that
1 he is referring to the same man going out on both
2 occasions.
3 Another witness is called Frank McCarron. At
4 AM82.4, in his statement he refers in paragraph 23 to
5 stopping at the point marked D on the attached map:
6 "The point marked D on the attached map is
7 the gap between blocks 2 and 3 at the south side of the
8 entrance to the stairs in block 2. This stairway hid
9 us from the Rossville flats car park. I do not think
10 we were there for long, but there was no shooting while
11 we were there. While we were there I also saw a body
12 almost directly in front of us to the south. I do not
13 recall what gave me the impression, but I had the idea
14 that he had been shot from the direction of the steps
15 leading from Fahan Street East towards Joseph Place.
16 I also thought that he had been shot by a ricocheting
17 bullet because as we moved out towards the body (there
18 was no shooting at this time) I saw that there was no
19 blood anywhere. In fact the body was lying on his back
20 approximately at the point marked E on the attached
21 map. [E is at the very entrance to the Joseph Place
22 alleyway]. He had his hands in his trouser pockets.
23 His head was towards Joseph Place and his feet towards
24 block 2 of the Rossville flats. I do not recall seeing
25 any other bodies in that area at the time. I refer to
1 the copy photographs at appendices 6 to 10 inclusive
2 [those are the Patrick Walsh/Patrick Doherty
3 photographs]. The copy photograph at appendix 6 is,
4 I think, taken in the car park of the flats.
5 I can go to paragraph 24:
6 "24. I refer to the copy photographs at
7 appendices 5 to 8. I think that these show Patrick
8 Doherty in the approximate position in which we found
9 him ...
10 "25. My impression of Patrick Doherty was
11 that he was already dead. However, one of the people
12 I was with said that we could not be too sure. I think
13 that this person may have tried to give Patrick Doherty
14 some form of resuscitation. We then tried to pull him
15 into the alleyway at the back of Joseph Place where we
16 had intended to go. He was wearing a black coat which
17 came to his thighs. I think that we were trying to
18 pull him by at least one of the shoulders of his
19 jacket. We thought that we would get lifted by the
20 soldiers if we stayed in the Rossville flats area.
21 "26. As we were trying to pull him along the
22 shooting started again. The shooting was coming from
23 the Derry walls. We ran to a low wall which ran
24 between Joseph Place and the walls. I distinctly
25 remember going along on my hunkers to get away because
1 of the shooting from the Derry walls. There seemed to
2 be a lot of shooting and I did not lift my head the
3 whole way along the length of this wall, which ran
4 almost along the length of the two blocks of
5 Joseph Place. We moved along pretty steadily on our
6 hunkers and I would think that it took five or so
7 minutes to get to the south end of the wall. Our route
8 is shown by arrows on the attached map [which is at
9 AM82.8]."
10 His route generally is described by the
11 arrows. He is describing seeing what appears to be
12 Patrick Doherty at E and, having tried to pull him back
13 into the alleyway, running along that alleyway in the
14 direction shown by the arrows. There are in fact a
15 series of photographs that show the position after
16 Mr Walsh had gone to Patrick Doherty.
17 If we have P720, that is the photograph we
18 looked at before, which places Mr Doherty almost in
19 line with the alleyway. Next, 721, we can see a number
20 of people have gathered round Patrick Doherty. By 722
21 a Knight of Malta man is standing on the left. By 723
22 we can see the arrival at the scene of a man called
23 Francis Duddy, who is the young man with glasses in
24 this photograph; and at 724. At 725 we can see that
25 Mr Doherty was taken from the scene. One can see a
1 good picture behind of the wall which various witnesses
2 say shots were fired and bullet holes were subsequently
3 seen. Then Mr Doherty was subsequently, as appears
4 from 726, placed in an ambulance.
5 Francis Duddy in his statement to this
6 Tribunal, which we need not turn up, says that Patrick
7 Doherty's clothes were not dirty as though he had
8 dragged himself along the ground. He formed the view
9 that Patrick Doherty had been shot where he lay. This
10 may be doubtful in the sense that a number of witnesses
11 saw him crawling below block 2 and the pictures show
12 him crawling along the car park wall at the southeast
13 of the car park. Mr Duddy searched Patrick Doherty's
14 pockets and found, he said, some rubber bullets and a
15 card with Mr Doherty's name on it.
16 There is no evidence that Patrick Doherty had
17 any form of firearm or other weapon with or upon him,
18 and there is positive evidence that he did not in the
19 form of the photographs and the testimony of a number
20 of the witnesses.
21 There are some accounts which are difficult
22 to square with some of the photographic and other
23 evidence. One of those is the evidence of
24 Jean Marie McGeehan, who did not give evidence to
25 Widgery and was 12 years old at the time. Her evidence
1 appears at AM228.3. She also was in a flat in block 2
2 at the eastern end. At paragraph 14, as she looked out
3 of the living room, she saw down to the paved area in
4 between block 2 of the flats and Joseph Place:
5 "Because of the angle I was looking down at
6 I could only see clearly about five feet out from the
7 wall of block 2. I remember three men in particular.
8 "15. The first man I saw was heading from
9 block 2 of the Rossville flats towards the alleyway at
10 the back of Joseph Place. The route he took is shown
11 marked on the attached map. I saw him as I looked to
12 the right towards Rossville Street. I saw him fall.
13 I do not know whether he was shot or whether he just
14 stumbled but he got up quickly and was helped to the
15 alleyway by people who were taking cover there. This
16 was a few minutes after I had arrived at the front of
17 the flats. I cannot remember what he looked like at
18 all ...
19 "16. The second man I saw was running from
20 directly below the window I was looking out of towards
21 the alleyway at the back of Joseph Place. The route he
22 took is also shown marked on the attach map. He seemed
23 to crumple and fall down to the ground as though one of
24 his legs had gone from under him. He got up by
25 himself, there was no one around to help him. He
1 continued towards the alleyway as quickly as he could.
2 He was in a bent over position although he was not on
3 his hands and knees. I got the impression from the way
4 he was staggering that he was in pain. I assumed that
5 he had been shot in the leg, but I do not know which
6 leg it was. Just as he got to the alleyway someone
7 helped him to get behind Joseph Place. I cannot now
8 recall any detail about the appearance of the man. At
9 that time there was a lot going on in the flat. I was
10 being told to keep away from the window and keep my
11 head down. I kept looking out every now and again.
12 I think I stayed in the living room and did not go back
13 to the bedroom."
14 Pausing there, there is another account of
15 two men appearing to stumble or to be shot in the legs:
16 "17. I saw the third man just as the second
17 man got to the alleyway at Joseph Place. He was
18 crawling on his belly from the gap between blocks 2 and
19 3 of the Rossville flats towards the alleyway at the
20 back of Joseph Place. He was nearly flat on the ground
21 and was using his arms in front of him to drag himself
22 along. His arms were not straight out in front of him
23 but were bent. He was moving slowly towards the
24 alleyway. When I saw him I assumed that he was
25 dragging himself that way because he had seen what
1 happened to the second man. I cannot remember thinking
2 that he was hurt or injured.
3 "18. The man got to about the point marked G
4 on the attached map when he suddenly stopped. He was
5 about halfway between block 2 and the alleyway.
6 I thought that he had stopped because he was afraid of
7 the gunfire. The gunfire I had first heard when I was
8 in the bedroom overlooking the Rossville flats' car
9 park was still going on when I saw this third man.
10 I think by this time there was still a fair amount of
11 shooting but it seemed to be more single shots than
12 rapid continuous fire. I could not say which direction
13 the shooting came from because of the echo. I assumed
14 that it was from Rossville Street from where the Army
15 vehicles were.
16 "19. I carried on watching the man for a
17 short time because he was so still. I was worried that
18 he might get shot. I do not know how long I watched
19 him. As I watched him, the colour seemed to drain from
20 his face. He was lying diagonally with his feet
21 towards the gap between blocks 2 and 3 and his head
22 towards the alleyway at Joseph Place. He was lying on
23 his front with his legs behind him and his arms bent in
24 front of him in the position he had been when he was
25 dragging himself along. His face was turned towards
1 Rossville Street.
2 "20. I then saw another man appear from the
3 back of the alleyway behind Joseph Place and start
4 moving very slowly towards the man lying on the ground
5 at point E. This man was on his hands and knees
6 crawling very slowly. My uncle opened the window and
7 shouted out to him to be careful and watch himself
8 because there was shooting. As he crawled along he was
9 looking all around him but not really looking in any
10 one particular direction. He kept stopping and
11 starting and it took him quite a while to reach the man
12 lying at point B. By the time he reached him I think
13 the gunfire had stopped:
14 "21. He turned the man over. I do not know
15 whether he intended to turn him over or whether he went
16 to take his pulse and turned him over as he was
17 examining him, but he did end up lying face up. I do
18 not have any recollection of what either man looked
19 like apart from the fact that I think the one who had
20 been shot was an oldish man, but I was only 12 years
21 old at the time. I definitely think he was older than
22 the first two men I had seen.
23 "22. The next thing I remember is seeing a
24 man walk out from the gaps between blocks 2 and 3 of
25 the Rossville flats towards where the two men were.
1 This man had a camera around his neck which he held in
2 his left-hand. He held a white hanky in his other
3 hand. He faced toward Rossville Street, waving the
4 hanky and holding the camera up as though the Army
5 would know he was a photographer and not to shoot.
6 I did not hear him say anything. By that time the
7 shooting had stopped."
8 That sounds very much like Mr Peress:
9 "23. I also remember seeing a man in a grey
10 uniform come out from the alleyway behind Joseph Place
11 and go towards the man who had been shot. I assumed
12 that he was a Red Cross man as he was wearing a light
13 grey uniform. [that looks very like the man whose
14 photograph we have just seen in the group surrounding
15 Mr Doherty]."
16 So on that account somebody, who sounds like
17 Mr Walsh, comes out on one occasion and turns the body
18 round and then Mr Peress, or what sounds like
19 Mr Peress, and at any rate a photographer, appears.
20 Lastly in the civilian evidence on this
21 point, it is desirable to look at the statement of
22 Edmund Melaugh at 398.11. His account begins at
23 paragraph 19. I pick it up at a stage where he says:
24 "19. I stayed at the south gable end of
25 block 1 for shelter. I could see a hexagonal brick
1 built flowerbed just ahead of me. It was about two
2 feet high. I could see chunks of brick coming out of
3 it as it was hit by bullets. I thought that the shots
4 were being fired from behind me, from further north up
5 Rossville Street, because the bricks were being hit on
6 the side of the flowerbed which was facing north
7 towards Rossville Street.
8 "20. Then, from where I was standing at the
9 south end gable of block 1, I could see soldiers
10 advancing into the Glenfada Park North courtyard.
11 There were not many, maybe four or five. They all had
12 rifles and were shooting across the Glenfada Park North
13 courtyard in the direction of Glenfada Park South.
14 I then saw one soldier drop and kneel near to the
15 centre of the Glenfada Park North courtyard (at point
16 J) and start shooting towards the hexagonal flowerbed
17 and the south gable end of block 1, where we were
18 standing.
19 "21. When that happened, I took to my
20 heels. I ran to my left along the side of block 2 of
21 the Rossville flats in a southwest direction. I was
22 running right up against the side of the building. As
23 I ran along the back of block 2, I was running past the
24 shops which were on the ground level of block 2."
25 If he was doing that he cannot have been
1 running in a southwest direction. It must have been
2 east or at best southeast:
3 "I think I ran past a fruit and vegetable
4 shop, a sweet shop, and there was a Chinese restaurant
5 towards the southwest end of block 2 [it must be
6 southeast].
7 "22. When I got almost to the end of block 2
8 I ran south across to the back of Joseph Place. As
9 I was running I did not look behind me. There was
10 still shooting and I assumed it was coming from
11 Glenfada Park North.
12 "23. I entered the alleyway behind
13 Joseph Place. The outer wall forming the alleyway was
14 not level. The northwest end (where I entered the
15 alleyway) was only knee high. The wall increased in
16 height the further away it was from block 2 of the
17 Rossville flats. When I entered the alleyway I saw
18 people running ahead of me and there were people hiding
19 all along the alleyway. I could see that there were
20 lots of people in the gap between the two blocks of
21 Joseph Place.
22 "24. I went along the alleyway as far as
23 point L. I stopped briefly here. I remember hearing
24 someone say that there was shooting coming from the
25 city walls. I could still hear the crack of shots
1 being fired, but I could not tell from which direction
2 they were coming.
3 "25. I heard someone behind me call out
4 'I am shot'. I looked round and saw two people at the
5 entrance to the Joseph Place alleyway. They were both
6 wounded. At the time, I assumed that they had been
7 behind me, running towards the Joseph Place alleyway,
8 when they were shot. I thought that the shots would
9 have come from the soldiers in Glenfada Park North.
10 "26. I and another man -- I do not know who
11 he was -- went back to the entrance to the alleyway.
12 We were crouching down behind the low wall of the
13 alleyway and we leaned out and dragged the two wounded
14 men in, one at a time. I cannot remember what the two
15 men were wearing ... casual wear rather than suits.
16 I think that one was in his thirties and the other was
17 in his fifties. I remember that one was shot in the
18 ankle [I do not know who that is]. At the time,
19 I assumed that they had been shot by the soldiers
20 shooting across towards Joseph Place from Glenfada Park
21 North. I did not see either of the men actually being
22 shot.
23 "27. The other man and I dragged the two
24 wounded men about halfway down the alleyway before
25 other people took them from us. I do not know where
1 the two wounded men were taken by the other people in
2 the alleyway.
3 "28. As I was dragging one of the wounded
4 men to safety, I saw another man in his early 30s
5 crawling on the ground at point M. I now know that
6 this man was Paddy Doherty."
7 If we go to AM398.18, we will find the map.
8 He had entered the alleyway at its mouth, at K. He had
9 gone down to L. He had gone back to K and he then
10 sees, after seeing two wounded men, somebody at point
11 M. Going back to where we were, paragraph 29:
12 "The other man and I went back to the
13 entrance to the alleyway opposite block 2 of the
14 Rossville flats at point K. Paddy Doherty called out
15 that he had been shot. He was crawling and calling for
16 someone to come and help him. The other man and I were
17 crouched down in the shelter of the low wall at the
18 northwest end of the alleyway. We could not go out as
19 the shooting was continuing and we thought that we
20 would be shot if we left the cover of the wall. I and
21 the other man told Paddy Doherty to lie still and not
22 move. We thought that he would make himself a target
23 to be shot again if he kept crawling. I remember that
24 he was crawling facing towards the alleyway where we
25 were, with his feet nearest to block 2 of the Rossville
1 flats. He was much further away from the Joseph Place
2 alleyway than the other two wounded men had been. At
3 the time I assumed that he had been shot some time
4 while he was making his way through the gap between
5 block 2 and block 3 of the Rossville flats towards the
6 Joseph Place alleyway. I did not see Paddy Doherty
7 come out of the gap between block 2 and block 3.
8 I only saw him when he was crawling on the ground. I
9 did not see him actually being shot. When I first saw
10 him I gained the impression that he was crawling to
11 avoid the shooting.
12 "30. While I was crouched down in the
13 Joseph Place alleyway watching Paddy Doherty, I can
14 remember seeing a woman in a second or third floor
15 window on the southwest side of a flat in block 2. She
16 was shouting at the other man and me. I think that she
17 was warning us to keep down because of the shooting.
18 Some time after we first heard Paddy Doherty cry out
19 that he had been shot, the shooting started to die
20 down. The odd shots were still being fired. I do not
21 know which direction they were coming from. If there
22 was shooting from the city walls, then the woman in
23 block 2 may have been warning us about that.
24 "32. When the shooting finally died down,
25 the other man and I went out to help Paddy Doherty. He
1 did not appear to be dead at that stage. There was a
2 man wearing a grey uniform running around and looking
3 at people who had been wounded. I think that he was
4 either a Knight of Malta or a St John's Ambulance man.
5 He came over to check on Paddy Doherty. I remember
6 that Paddy Doherty was lying on his stomach. The first
7 aider rolled him over and pulled up his shirt.
8 I remember that there was a hole in his side and there
9 was blood all over that side of his body. I cannot
10 remember which side of his body had been shot. I do
11 remember that he was not a tall man and that when his
12 shirt was pulled up I could see that he was a little
13 hairy and very white. He was in his early 30s. Some
14 other people gathered around and helped carry him into
15 the first house at the northern-most end of
16 Joseph Place. I cannot remember if I helped to carry
17 him, although I do recall standing in the doorway of
18 the house he was carried into."
19 There are difficulties with this account.
20 The reference to Patrick Doherty being on his face and
21 then turned over to be on his back at a late stage of
22 the action is inconsistent with the photographs that we
23 have seen.
24 Secondly, Patrick Doherty was not taken into
25 a house in Joseph Place. He was taken to the ambulance
1 from the spot where he lay, as appears in the
2 photograph that we saw but a moment ago. The evidence
3 in question, including the reference to this witness
4 going out to help Paddy Doherty, unless he is the other
5 man referred to, does not allow for the presence of
6 Patrick Walsh who we can see in the photographs.
7 Though it may simply be that Mr Melaugh who, on any
8 view, went some way down the alleyway at the back of
9 Joseph Place, came back on the scene at a later stage
10 and was one of those who, at that stage, undoubtedly
11 did go to see if they could assist Patrick Doherty.
12 There is evidence, which we saw before in
13 another connection but could usefully see now in this,
14 of Soldier 227 who was looking from the Charlie
15 observation post on the walls and saw an apparently
16 wounded man propelling himself by his arms on his
17 front. If we look at Day 16, page 44, he was asked
18 this at E, the bottom half of the page:
19 "Question: Did you see a man who had
20 apparently been wounded moving along somewhere else?
21 Answer: Yes, sir, I ... in between
22 St Joseph's Place and the low wall on my side of the
23 block.
24 Question: Was he moving from St Joseph's
25 Place to the wall or the other way?
1 Answer: He was moving behind the wall behind
2 the Rossville flats ... He was propelling himself by
3 using his arms ... on his front.
4 Question: Could you see whether he was
5 wounded or not?
6 Answer: No, I could not actually see.
7 Question: Did you look at him through the
8 telescope sight?
9 Answer: Yes.
10 Question: Did you see on him at that time
11 any firearms?
12 Answer: No, I did not."
13 Then if you go to Day 16, page 50, he was
14 asked by Mr Preston, one of the counsel to the
15 Tribunal, this:
16 "Question: I just want to ask you about the
17 man that appeared into your line of sight crawling
18 along on his stomach. Did he appear from the dead
19 ground in front of you?
20 Answer: My line of sight went from Rossville
21 flats down to St Joseph's Place and I saw the man
22 behind the wall crawling towards the Rossville flats.
23 Question: Did he appear, so far as your view
24 of him took you, from behind the wall into your view?
25 Answer: He came from my left going to my
1 right, sir.
2 Question: Did you gain the impression that
3 he was wounded?
4 Answer: Yes, sir, I did."
5 That evidence might relate to Patrick
6 Doherty, but the evidence of somebody crawling towards
7 the Rossville flats is, if it refers to Doherty,
8 somebody crawling in the wrong direction. Also he was
9 asked to look at EP25.12. At the bottom at D, if we
10 can have the second half of what appears on the page,
11 he was asked this:
12 "Question: The man on the left in that
13 photograph, is he the man you saw crawl into your view?
14 Answer: No, sir ... I could not positively
15 identify him as the person that crawled into my view,
16 sir."
17 EP25.12 is the photograph that he was being
18 referred to. The man on the left is Patrick Doherty.
19 He was being asked if he could positively identify him,
20 and he said "no".
21 Soldier 227 has made to statement to this
22 Tribunal which appears at bundle B2204.006. Can
23 somebody note that that is missing. I can summarise
24 the significance of what he says in that. He repeats
25 the fact that he saw somebody going from left to right
1 towards the Rossville flats. In paragraph 28 he says:
2 "My attention was drawn to a man who seemed
3 to be dragging himself along by his arms on the east
4 side of Joseph Place. He was going from my left to my
5 right towards the Rossville flats ... I could see no
6 obvious wound or reason why he should be dragging
7 himself along rather than walking or crawling. I could
8 not see any weapons on him although I would not
9 necessarily have been able to see a handgun. However
10 I continued to follow his progress as I felt that if he
11 got to the north end of Joseph Place he would move out
12 of the line of vision into dead ground and would then
13 be in a position to shoot at the Paras I had seen in
14 Glenfada Park North."
15 I am afraid I do not follow that because, if
16 he was moving from left to right towards the Rossville
17 flats, his progress would not take him to the north end
18 of Joseph Place. He then goes on to say:
19 "Before the man made it to the northern end
20 of Joseph Place, a group of people appeared around him
21 and helped him to walk back the way he had come, away
22 from the Rossville flats, south towards Fahan Street
23 and Free Derry Corner."
24 Can I have the map Q8? What I think in fact
25 his evidence amounts to is that he is on the
1 observation post here and he is seeing somebody crawl
2 in this direction, on the east side of Joseph Place.
3 So that it is not crawling from the north side of
4 Joseph Place to block 2 -- as would be indicated by the
5 arrow that I am putting on the screen now -- but it is
6 crawling from the east of Joseph Place towards the
7 north of Joseph Place and then, before he gets to the
8 north, he is pulled back the way that he had come. So
9 whoever else this may be, it seems pretty clear that it
10 is not Patrick Doherty.
11 LORD SAVILLE: This witness also mentions
12 dead ground, by which I understand ground he could not
13 see because it was obscured by other ground. Do we
14 know -- looking from the city walls -- what, if any,
15 dead ground there was in the area where Patrick Doherty
16 appears to have been shot, or where at least
17 Mr Peress's photographs show him lying on the ground?
18 I do not want to take you out of your present
19 course, but it may just be from the virtual reality
20 photographs or from the virtual reality computer makeup
21 that one can get a view from at least part of the city
22 walls to see what, if anything, you can see in that
23 area.
24 MR CLARKE: We can certainly try.
25 LORD SAVILLE: I was not suggesting it now,
1 Mr Clarke, but it might be worth exploring that.
2 MR CLARKE: We will look at it later,
3 particularly when we have his statement so we can see
4 the entirety of it on the screen and not bits of it.
5 It looks pretty clearly as if he is not actually
6 referring to Patrick Doherty at all, though who he is
7 referring to is quite unclear.
8 Lastly I should refer back to the evidence of
9 Gunner 030, to which I have already referred in the
10 context of Sector 4. He was one of the people who was
11 on the platform. It will be recalled that he told
12 Lord Widgery that he saw a soldier in the middle of the
13 south end of Glenfada Park North turn and fire in his
14 direction, but below him. Then he saw a body lying by
15 what was described as the "first tree" in number 2 of
16 the Rossville flats; that looks as if it is one of the
17 trees below block 2 of the flats in approximately the
18 position where Patrick Doherty lay. But in his
19 evidence to this Inquiry he has given a very different
20 account, in which he says he did not see any soldiers
21 firing live rounds on Bloody Sunday at all. The
22 discrepancies between the two will have to be examined
23 in due course.
24 As I mentioned yesterday, it was the evidence
25 of F that he shot from Glenfada Park North at a man he
1 said with a pistol at the east wall, who fell. The
2 Tribunal will have noticed, quite apart from the fact
3 that the number of dead and wounded in this sector
4 appears to be four, that there are more shootings to be
5 accounted for than can be accounted for by two
6 bullets. Also, there is a sizable body of evidence to
7 the effect that there was more than two shots fired
8 from a westerly direction towards the area where
9 Patrick Doherty was.
10 That brings me next to the death of Bernard
11 McGuigan who was shot in the head at the south of
12 block 1 in a position we have already seen on some of
13 the photographs and we will see again in a moment. If
14 we turn to E2, page 46, we will see the
15 O'Callaghan/Shepherd report in relation to him:
16 "There was one entry and one exit wound.
17 "The entry was on the left side of the head,
18 8 centimetres behind the ear, and was a ragged, oval
19 injury, 0.8 by 0.4 centimetres with small lacerations
20 of 3 millimetres on the anterior margin:
21 "The exit was in the right lower eyelid ...
22 "The track of the bullet was from back to
23 front, left to right at approximately 45 degrees and
24 upwards at approximately 10 degrees."
25 The X-rays taken at the time of the
1 postmortem examination showed approximately 42 radio
2 opaque fragments within the cranial cavity which, in
3 Messrs Shepherd and O'Callaghan's opinion, are without
4 doubt bullet fragments. If we go to E2.47 at 7.9.3,
5 they say this:
6 "From the information available it is our
7 opinion that the injury was not caused by a stable and
8 intact L2A2 bullet.
9 "The four following possibilities exist:
10 "(i) The wound was caused by an L2A2 bullet
11 which had been weakened by an impact with an
12 intermediate target prior to striking the left side of
13 Bernard McGuigan's head. However, the entry wound is
14 typical of a 'clean' entry over the skull. There are
15 no surrounding or adjacent injuries that would indicate
16 that the bullet was unstable or fragmenting prior to
17 contact with Bernard McGuigan.
18 "(ii) A stable but substandard L2A2 bullet
19 which fragmented caused the wound.
20 "(iii) A stable L2A2 bullet, which had been
21 deliberately weakened to enhance the potential for
22 fragmentation, caused the wound.
23 "(iv) Some other type or calibre of
24 ammunition caused the wound.
25 "The failure to identify and recover the
1 metal fragments from the head has precluded any
2 realistic chance of determining the type of bullet
3 used.
4 "Conclusions:
5 "A single bullet struck the left side of
6 Bernard McGuigan's head. The bullet fragmented during
7 its passage through the skull and this is reflected in
8 the metal debris seen on the X-rays and the size of the
9 exit wound. The failure to recover these metal
10 fragments precludes identification of the bullet type.
11 "Assuming the Normal Anatomical Position the
12 track is from behind and forward, from left to right.
13 However, the greater mobility of the head means that
14 these angles must be treated with greater care than
15 normal as this mobility means that the head may not
16 have been facing the same direction as the other parts
17 of the body when he was shot. However, it is clear
18 that Bernard McGuigan could not have been facing the
19 rifle that fired the shot."
20 There are many witnesses who saw Bernard
21 McGuigan after he was shot, but only a limited number
22 who saw him at the moment of his death. The issues so
23 far as that death are concerned include:
24 (i) What was he doing immediately prior to
25 his death?
1 (ii) From where was he shot?
2 (iii) Is any significance to be attached to
3 the lead particles on the scarf that at one stage
4 covered his face, and to the lead particles detected on
5 swabs taken from him?
6 As to the first question -- what was Bernard
7 McGuigan doing? -- several witnesses say that he was
8 going out from the end of block 1 to try to attend to
9 the stricken Patrick Doherty. This evidence tallies
10 with the position in which he fell, which was to the
11 southeast of the gable end of block 1. Geraldine
12 Richmond, it will be recalled, came round the corner of
13 block 1 after Hugh Gilmore. She says that when she had
14 done so, and seen Hugh Gilmore die there, she was taken
15 away from Hugh Gilmore by Barney McGuigan and another
16 man, identified in her latest statement as Barney
17 McFadden, and was taken further to the east to where
18 the telephone box at the south of block 1 is. If we go
19 to Day 6, page 51 of the Widgery transcript, she says
20 this at C:
21 "Answer: Well, I will tell you, when I was
22 down helping Mr McGuigan the firing -- No, I was left
23 there when he was dead [this is Hugh Gilmore] and his
24 head was in my lap and this man and another man called
25 Barney McGuigan came down and took me away from Hugh
1 Gilmore up to where the telephone box was and the
2 shooting still went on and we were at this telephone
3 box and we heard this man squealing -- I could not tell
4 you who he was or where he was -- 'I do not want to die
5 myself, I do not want to die myself.' Mr McGuigan then
6 says 'I cannot stand this no longer. If I take a white
7 handkerchief and go out, they will not shoot me.' We
8 tried to dissuade him from going out, but that man was
9 determined to go and he took about four paces from the
10 telephone box waving a white handkerchief and he got
11 shot. I want to say that neither Mr Gilmore or
12 Mr McGuigan had any weapons and Mr McGuigan was only
13 going to help to see if he could find the man that was
14 crying. That is all I want to say."
15 If we go to AM45.3, we will find her
16 statement to this Tribunal, where at paragraph 25,
17 AM45.5, she says this:
18 "Barney McGuigan, one of the men huddled at
19 the wall with me, was a community man and was generally
20 looked up to. After a short time (although I do not
21 know how long) Mr McGuigan said that he could not stand
22 the sound of the man calling any longer and that if he
23 went out waving a white hanky they would not shoot at
24 him. We tried to dissuade him from going out. We told
25 him they would shoot him. However, he was brave and he
1 stepped away from us holding the white hanky in his
2 hand. Although I cannot be certain I think he held it
3 in his left-hand. He walked out slowly, sideways in an
4 arc, towards where we thought the sound was coming
5 from. He stepped out about 10 to 12 feet away from
6 us. All the time he was walking I could see the
7 left-hand side of his face. We were calling to him all
8 the time to come back. He kept looking back towards
9 us. I could see bullets going past us and Mr McGuigan
10 from all directions although I did not hear automatic
11 fire. The bullets sounded the same as those I had
12 heard when I had been running down Rossville Street
13 earlier.
14 "26. I remember hearing two distinct shots.
15 After the first one Mr McGuigan turned back towards us
16 and, although I cannot be certain, I think he turned
17 his whole body and not just his face. I did not see
18 the bullet hit anything, I just heard it. The second
19 shot hit him and blew his head up like a tomato
20 exploding. I saw his eye come out. I did not see the
21 back of his head."
22 Over the page, paragraph 28:
23 "At the time I thought Mr McGuigan had been
24 shot from the direction of the city walls towards
25 Rossville Street. I knew there was shooting from the
1 right, from the Glenfada Park area across
2 Rossville Street, because I heard and saw the bullets.
3 However, the bullets were bouncing and ricocheting all
4 over and some were coming from the opposite direction,
5 i.e. from the southeast towards Rossville Street.
6 I thought he had been shot from the direction of the
7 walls because of the direction his head was facing when
8 he was shot. However, I now think he was shot from the
9 direction of the Saracen parked on Rossville Street,
10 shown on the photograph at attachment 4."
11 May we have EP25.17. That shows the Saracen
12 as described -- the APC -- coming down at the south end
13 of Glenfada Park North.
14 If we could have a look at EP32.3, this is a
15 photograph we saw earlier in relation to Hugh Gilmore.
16 We have been able, by some computer wizardry, to make
17 it more easily viewable. It shows, taken from the
18 west, the group of people surrounding Hugh Gilmore at
19 the south of block 1. Hugh Gilmore is somewhere on the
20 ground. Bernard McGuigan, as was helpfully pointed out
21 the other day, is the man just behind the third bollard
22 from the left in the photograph. One can see that at
23 this stage a number of people have gathered round Hugh
24 Gilmore. This photograph enables us to establish in
25 the sequence of deaths that Hugh Gilmore died before
1 Bernard McGuigan.
2 Before we leave this photograph, I should say
3 that it is possible from the evidence given to this
4 Inquiry to identify a number of those who came round
5 the corner of block 1 with Hugh Gilmore, or who came
6 through the gap between blocks 1 and 2 and were at some
7 stage at the south end of block 1. For the sake of the
8 transcript and those who are interested in tracing
9 matters through, people who ended up there include:
10 Geraldine Richmond, whose evidence I have just been
11 referring to; Bernard McGuigan; Brian McCool, Barney
12 McFadden; Paul McLaughlin; Hugh Kelly; Edmund Melaugh;
13 Frank Carlin; Sean Canney; John Davis, Michael Rooney;
14 Bernard Gallagher; Thomas Harrigan; Patrick Kelly;
15 Desmond Kyle; Sheila Duffy, now Sheila Sherrin; Sean
16 McDaid; Frankie Mellan, Sean McDermott, JE Moore and
17 James Rowe.
18 I suspect many, or perhaps all of those who
19 are in that photograph are included in that list of
20 names.
21 MR MAGEE: Sir, I wonder if I could assist
22 Mr Clarke. In the photograph the person who is
23 kneeling down over the person who is prostrate on the
24 ground who has a white collar, if an arrow could be put
25 on it.
1 LORD SAVILLE: The one with --
2 MR MAGEE: The one on the right of the
3 person --
4 LORD SAVILLE: The person immediately to the
5 right of the person appearing to wear a waistcoat?
6 MR MAGEE: Yes, a white collar.
7 MR CLARKE: That one?
8 MR MAGEE: I understand that Daniel McGowan.
9 MR CLARKE: That is very helpful. Do we have
10 EP32.3.001? This is the annotated version. Indeed,
11 what my learned friend has just said has been
12 corroborated, I suspect by Mr McGowan himself. The man
13 with the waistcoat is Frankie Mellan. Bernard McGuigan
14 I have talked about. The man with the sideburns, to
15 the left of the lamppost, has been identified by
16 somebody as Hugh Kelly. Somebody has identified Brian
17 McCool on the left. Next door to him is Bernard
18 Gallagher.
19 LORD SAVILLE: Thank you.
20 Shall we stop now until 1 o'clock?
21 MR CLARKE: Thank you.
22 (12.05 pm)
23 (The luncheon adjournment)
24 (1.05 pm)
25 MR CLARKE: It is clear that after Hugh
1 Gilmore died, Geraldine Richmond, understandably,
2 became hysterical and screamed and, in order to shut
3 her up, she was punched, according to Brian McCool,
4 several times by him. After Bernard McGuigan had been
5 shot he, that is to say Brian McCool, and Bernard
6 Gallagher picked her up and carried her to a house in
7 Joseph Place in which house were also Michael Bradley
8 and Alana Burke and there is some difference in the
9 evidence as to whether that was the first, second,
10 third or fourth house down from the north in
11 Joseph Place.
12 There is a picture we will come to in due
13 course which shows Geraldine Richmond being carried
14 away from the south of block 1.
15 Bernard Gallagher was, according to his
16 evidence, another of those who had to strike Geraldine
17 Richmond. His evidence relevantly appears at AG3.4
18 where at paragraph 21 he says:
19 "Shortly after I heard someone suggest going
20 out with a white flag, I saw a big man in front of me
21 stand up and I had the impression he had heard what was
22 just said and was going out to wave something white to
23 try to stop the shooting. As he stepped out I remember
24 hearing someone near me wailing. I do not know who
25 that was. I think the big man was wearing an anorak
1 (most people were that day I recall). I do not
2 remember any more details about what the big man looked
3 like. I do not recall if he was wearing a scarf. He
4 had been crouched down on his hunkers (haunches)
5 a couple of yards in front of me (further south and
6 further away from the south gable wall) and he was
7 facing north towards the south gable wall where I was
8 crouched with the girl who had fainted on my knees. As
9 he stood up, I am certain that he was still facing us
10 as he took one or two steps backwards (southwards) away
11 from the south gable wall towards Joseph Place. I do
12 not remember if he was holding anything in his hands.
13 I remember that he was looking about him in all
14 directions as he stepped back. He had only taken one
15 or two steps backwards when I heard a 'bang' and he
16 fell backwards on to his back. I cannot be sure if he
17 was standing entirely upright when he was shot or
18 whether he was crouched down a little. He lay where he
19 had fallen with his head pointing south towards
20 Joseph Place and his feet pointing north towards the
21 south gable wall of block 1 ... at the point marked
22 with an F on the attached map. I found out later that
23 he was called Barney McGuigan."
24 Another one of those who was at the gable end
25 of block 1 is Joseph Moore. He says that he saw
1 Bernard McGuigan run out towards Joseph Place and that
2 he was facing in that direction when he was hit. His
3 statement appears at AM413.4, paragraph 20. He says
4 this:
5 "As we were all huddling against the wall,
6 one man ran out towards Joseph Place. I later
7 discovered this man was Barney McGuigan. He was
8 standing very close to me and he moved from behind or
9 beside me. I think he was to my left-hand side.
10 I felt the movement as he ran out from the wall towards
11 Joseph Place. I called out to him something to the
12 effect of 'Where do you think you are going?'. He was
13 running out and was probably about eight feet away from
14 me when he was hit. He was facing towards Joseph Place
15 and I could see the side of his face come off, although
16 I cannot remember which side. Part of his face
17 exploded in a whole mess of blood. He fell down on to
18 his back. He must have died immediately, before he hit
19 the ground. I watched the blood run out of him and
20 remember seeing his feet twitch as they were pointing
21 towards me.
22 "21. I do not know where he was shot from,
23 but at the time I got the impression that he was shot
24 from the Glenfada Park area because he had been hit in
25 the back of his head. I do not recall hearing one
1 particular shot before he was hit and fell to the
2 ground. I do not know whether he had a scarf on him or
3 not. He did not run out with a gun. He was not
4 carrying anything in his hands. After he had fallen,
5 no one tried to approach him until the shooting had
6 died down."
7 Another witness who says that Bernard
8 McGuigan was going out to Patrick Doherty is Paul James
9 McLaughlin. I will come to his evidence in more detail
10 in a moment.
11 There are, however, some witnesses who say,
12 or whose evidence suggests that Bernard McGuigan was
13 going out towards Rossville Street when he was shot.
14 One of those is Thomas Bernard McDaid, whose evidence
15 appears at AM176.1. He lived at 11 Joseph Place, the
16 second house down from the north of Joseph Place, and
17 he was playing the acoustic guitar with a friend of his
18 called George Devlin. At paragraph 4, he says this:
19 "George and I stood on a bed and looked out
20 of a small high window in the room, north, towards
21 block 2 of the Rossville flats. I saw a group of
22 approximately 10 people at the northwestern corner of
23 block 2 at point B on the attached map."
24 If you look at AM176.3, what he is referring
25 to as the northwestern corner of block 2 is where you
1 can see the B. He was at the house at A. If we go
2 back to 176.1:
3 "Some of the people in the group were lying
4 on the ground. My attention was immediately drawn to
5 Barney McGuigan, who was standing among the crowd at
6 B. He was a very tall man and stood out. I think his
7 right hand was raised; he seemed to be holding
8 something white in his hand and trying to get
9 attention. I assumed he was holding a handkerchief.
10 He was the only one from the group moving forward. He
11 took approximately 15 to 20 quick steps in a northwest
12 direction from point B towards Rossville Street. He
13 was bent forward and kept his head low. I had no idea
14 what he was doing. I could still hear the crackling
15 noise at this time. He did not get very far before he
16 suddenly fell forward, face down, at point C. He fell
17 forward in the direction he had been moving. People
18 started to scream. I assumed that Barney had been shot
19 because I had realised by that time that the crackling
20 sound was gunfire. I had heard live gunfire in the
21 Bogside before. At this time I could also see people
22 running into the Glenfada Park North car park.
23 "5. Very shortly after this I saw three
24 soldiers running south down Rossville Street. One
25 soldier was in front and there were two soldiers behind
1 him; they were in a V-shape formation. The most
2 distinctive thing I can recall about the three soldiers
3 is that they were all wearing red berets and camouflage
4 uniforms. They also all had blackened faces and were
5 carrying rifles. I could still hear shooting at this
6 stage which seemed to be fired from the direction of
7 Rossville Street. The soldier at the head of the group
8 seemed to run southwest down Rossville Street, while
9 the soldier to his right ran west in the direction of
10 Glenfada Park South. The soldier on the left of the
11 lead soldier ran south in the direction of
12 Joseph Place. They were not running too fast. Their
13 movements are shown by the arrows on the attached map.
14 The crackling sound of shooting then seemed to stop.
15 The soldier who ran towards Joseph Place was carrying
16 his rifle across his chest and was looking around. He
17 looked up and saw George and I looking out of the
18 window. He lifted his rifle up to his shoulder and
19 pointed it at us. We got down out of sight."
20 If one goes back to the map at AM176.3, the
21 description of the passage of the three soldiers is
22 given by the arrows that somebody has marked on the
23 map. As we have seen, the description of Bernard
24 McGuigan as falling down, face down in a northwesterly
25 direction in which he was moving, does not fit with the
1 photographs. Indeed, as we have seen, the photographs
2 show Bernard McGuigan to be below block 1 and not below
3 block 2. This witness is not the only person to talk
4 of Bernard McGuigan falling face down. It is possible,
5 of course, that he turned as he fell, perhaps affected
6 by the force of the bullet that struck him.
7 Another witness is Tony William Quigley,
8 whose evidence appears at AQ7.3. He describes having
9 reached a wall to the south of block 2 and parallel to
10 it. There is not a wall to the south of block 2 and
11 parallel to it, but he may have been referring to what
12 I have been calling the threepenny bits, because he
13 says at paragraph 16:
14 "From behind the wall, my view of
15 Rossville Street was restricted by the southern end of
16 block 1 of the Rossville flats although I could see the
17 rubble barricade. I could see a boy lying across the
18 middle of the rubble barricade at position J. The boy
19 appeared to have been shot. I remember that this boy
20 was young but I cannot remember what he was wearing or
21 how he was lying. I then noticed Barney McGuigan
22 emerge from the people sheltering at point I [which is
23 to the south of block 1] I knew Barney McGuigan as
24 I had worked with him for four to five years. When
25 I first saw him that day he was standing slightly south
1 of the people sheltering at I. He was walking in
2 a westerly direction as if heading towards the rubble
3 barricade with his hands up... I believe that Barney
4 knew that the boy at the barricade was shot and was
5 going to tend to him. He took three steps in the
6 direction of the barricade before he was shot at
7 position K on the attached map and I do not know where
8 the shot came from. I saw Barney fall but I cannot
9 remember how he fell or in which position he lay after
10 being shot. I believe that he fell with his head
11 pointing towards block 1 of the Rossville flats and his
12 feet pointing towards Free Derry Corner."
13 Go to the map at AQ7.5. We will see that
14 point I where Bernard McGuigan is said to have been is
15 at the south of block 1 and he is said to have fallen
16 at point K, which is further over to the west than the
17 photographs show. The wall that he is referring to is
18 marked by the line which has been marked on the map.
19 As is apparent from the fact that it has to be marked
20 on the map, it did not exist at the time, though there
21 was there the hexagonal flower beds which may be what
22 the witness is thinking of.
23 If we go back to 7.3, paragraph 17, the
24 bottom of the page, he says:
25 "I panicked the instant I saw Barney fall and
1 crawled on my hands and knees in a southwesterly
2 direction in front of the houses at Joseph Place.
3 I have marked the approximate route I took with a line
4 on the attached map. I continued to crawl on my hands
5 and knees until I reached the Bogside Inn on the
6 Lecky Road. I remember seeing other people crawling in
7 the same direction on my way to the Bogside Inn.
8 I also remember seeing a great many people at Free
9 Derry Corner. They appeared to be standing around,
10 dazed by what was going on. I felt safer when
11 I arrived at Free Derry Corner, but I continued to
12 crawl on my hands and knees down the Lecky Road in the
13 direction of the Bogside Inn.
14 "18. When I reached the Bogside Inn, I saw
15 about 300 people standing around. These people were
16 talking about what had just happened and were fearful
17 that the Army were going to come further into the
18 Bogside. I also remember seeing a man walking south
19 down Westland Street towards the Bogside Inn. This man
20 was carrying a rifle. I gained the impression that
21 that man had just driven down Westland Street and
22 parked his car a few yards to the north of the
23 Bogside Inn although I cannot remember him getting out
24 of the car. The man said that he was going to take on
25 the British Army. The man was tall, fairly muscular
1 with fair hair. He was aged between 25 to 30 and
2 dressed in ordinary clothes although I cannot remember
3 any details about what he was wearing. The people
4 standing near the Bogside Inn protested and told him to
5 go. I remember them telling the man with the rifle
6 that he would make matters worse if he fired at the
7 Army and that this was exactly what the Army wanted him
8 to do. Eventually the man melted away into the crowd
9 and I did not see him again."
10 Another of those sheltered at the gable wall
11 of block 1 was Frank Carlin, whose account appears at
12 AC33.2, where in paragraph 11, the second half of the
13 page, he says:
14 "I ran across the car park and through the
15 gap between blocks 1 and 2 of the Rossville flats.
16 I kept running until I reached the telephone box at the
17 southern gable end of block 1. I sheltered against the
18 gable end together with a group of other people.
19 I cannot remember how many others were there. I recall
20 one man in particular who said that there were two
21 chaps on the rubble barricade on Rossville Street. He
22 said he needed to do something. I now know that this
23 man was Barney McGuigan. He was very angry and upset
24 and said that the bastards were shooting and men were
25 badly injured on the rubble barricade. He said that he
1 was going to take a handkerchief and go out to them.
2 Those sheltering by the telephone box told him to stay
3 where he was.
4 "12. At this time the shooting was heavy,
5 with one shot after another. This was not the sound of
6 machine-guns, but single, loud cracks. It sounded as
7 though different guns were firing in close unison.
8 I would say that the shots were being fired from the
9 direction of William Street down towards Free Derry
10 Corner. I was standing with my back against the gable
11 wall and was therefore facing towards Joseph Place.
12 I looked towards my right and saw bullets bouncing on
13 the ground on Rossville Street.
14 "13. Barney McGuigan was sheltering at the
15 telephone box with me when he took a handkerchief in
16 his left-hand and stepped away from the telephone box
17 towards Rossville Street. He shouted at the soldiers
18 to stop shooting. He had only taken a couple of steps
19 out from the telephone box and was facing up
20 Rossville Street towards William Street when he fell to
21 the ground. He had been shot in the head. His head
22 was a terrible mess; it had been blown away. Although
23 I do not know where the shot came from, it seemed to me
24 it was obvious that it came from Rossville Street.
25 This is because Barney McGuigan was facing in that
1 direction when he was shot. I do not remember him
2 wearing a scarf."
3 Another of those who falls into the category
4 of the people whose evidence is that Bernard McGuigan
5 was going towards Rossville Street is Ivan Cooper,
6 whose evidence is in KC12.23. He had half crawled and
7 half run in a crouched position from Free Derry Corner
8 where the meeting was to be held towards the telephone
9 box at the bottom of block 1. At paragraph 55 he says
10 this:
11 "As I continued to crawl towards Barney, he
12 started to move in a standing but crouched posture.
13 However, it was not similar to the Father Daly exercise
14 in hanky waving in the well-known images of Bloody
15 Sunday. Barney's gesture was more like a half-hearted
16 wave. Barney started to walk west from point F [point
17 F is at the bottom of block 1] towards Rossville
18 Street, across my line of vision. He was about 30 feet
19 away from me. I think that Barney had a cloth in his
20 hand to signal that he was on an errand of mercy and
21 was unarmed. He waved the cloth in a half-hearted
22 manner, which did not seem to have any positive
23 meaning, in the general direction of the north end of
24 Rossville Street. I do not recollect him having
25 anything else in his hands. I believe that there were
1 soldiers around Kells Walk and in the area of the
2 wasteground to the east of Rossville Street, but cannot
3 recall whether I could actually see the soldiers at
4 this stage. My eyes were totally fixed on Barney.
5 "56. Barney had only taken a few steps and,
6 as he came out into the open, at about point G, I think
7 that I then heard the same cracking noise as I had
8 heard earlier of a shot being fired. The scene which
9 I saw seemed to be in slow motion, and the few seconds
10 which this scene lasted were telescoped. Barney just
11 folded up. He crumpled and fell down on his side,
12 I think it was his right side, like a bag rolling off
13 a lorry. He fell towards the wall at the south end of
14 block 1. I still could not accept that he had been
15 shot. Barney had never had any connection with any
16 subversive organisation and would never have been
17 throwing nail bombs.
18 "57. I will never forget the scene. I then
19 heard a woman who was really screaming in
20 a high-pitched tone that would not stop. I could also
21 hear wild sobbing. There was a melee. I continued to
22 crawl towards Barney's body. As I was crawling, and
23 even after I had reached Barney's body, I still could
24 not see and never did see the person who he had been
25 trying to reach. As soon as I reached Barney I knew
1 that he had been fatally wounded. I was absolutely
2 appalled. He was lying in a pool of blood which sticks
3 strongly in my memory. I cannot picture in my mind any
4 people around Barney's body. He was lying in a similar
5 way. Half on his back, and half on his side (I think
6 the right-hand side). The position of his feet was
7 curious. His feet were crossed and twisted around. It
8 was Barney's feet which I had reached first. I think
9 they were pointing southeastwards and his head was
10 pointing west towards Rossville Street. I think that
11 Barney had his shoes on. There was then something put
12 over Barney's body by a middle aged woman which covered
13 part of his head but left part of his head still
14 visible. I do not know where the cloth went which
15 I believe Barney had had in his hand.
16 "58. As I was by Barney's body I was not
17 conscious of the presence of Army as I was completely
18 enveloped by what had happened to Barney and the
19 shouting, sobbing and screeching around me.
20 "59. I was now aware that for the first time
21 in all the demonstrations in which I had taken part
22 a person had lost his life. Prior to reaching Barney's
23 body, I was still refusing to accept that any person
24 had been shot and killed or injured."
25 That description of Barney's body as pointing
1 southeastwards, his feet pointing southeastward and his
2 head pointing west is in fact the reverse of where
3 Barney McGuigan's body is shown in the photographs,
4 where his head is pointing southeastwards and his feet
5 are pointing west or northwest.
6 There are two further witnesses, whom it is
7 not necessary to read at this time: Anthony Harkin, at
8 AH11, and James Rowe at AR29, whose evidence appears to
9 be to a similar effect, suggesting that Barney McGuigan
10 was going in a westerly direction, out towards
11 Rossville Street.
12 There is one witness, Sean Canney, whose
13 evidence appears in this respect at AC24.7, who appears
14 to say that Bernard McGuigan was walking out in
15 a southwesterly direction to a youth lying a few feet
16 away at the southwest of block 1. What he says is
17 this, at paragraph 41:
18 "I saw a young man lying at the southwest
19 corner of block 1 of the Rossville flats near the point
20 marked K. He was not moving and appeared to be
21 seriously wounded. I did not see him fall. I did not
22 notice him until I reached the area of the telephone
23 box. The young man's feet were pointing into
24 Rossville Street (in a northwesterly direction).
25 I think that he was lying on his back, but I am not
1 absolutely sure. He was a young man, about 17 or 18
2 years old ...
3 "42. The people on the west side of the
4 telephone box would have had a good view of the young
5 man -- a better view than I had. I could not see any
6 other bodies."
7 I should have said that he was standing, as
8 appears from paragraph 40, on the southeast of the
9 telephone box. Paragraph 42, the second sentence:
10 "I could not see the rubble barricade ...
11 "43. On the west side of the telephone box
12 there was an older man. He was certainly in his
13 fifties and may have been in his early 60s. He was
14 wearing a short coat. I cannot remember what else he
15 was wearing or whether there was anything around his
16 neck. He said words to the effect of 'we cannot leave
17 that boy out there' referring to the youth lying on the
18 floor a few feet away. The older man brought a white
19 handkerchief out of his own pocket and started to wave
20 it. He then began to move away from the wall in
21 a direction perpendicular to the wall (a southwesterly
22 direction). He took a couple of steps before the side
23 of his head exploded. He fell on his back not far from
24 the wall with his head pointing west towards
25 Rossville Street. There was a large pool of blood
1 around his head. I have a vivid memory of seeing steam
2 rising from the blood.
3 "44. It seemed to me that the man was hit by
4 a single shot fired from across Rossville Street --
5 from the direction of Glenfada Park, although there had
6 been some intermittent shooting prior to him being
7 shot. I later learned that the man was called Bernard
8 McGuigan. I took two photographs of him. They were
9 the first photographs that I had taken since the ones
10 I took at the barricade on William Street. Attached to
11 this statement marked 'SC photo 1' is a copy of one of
12 the photographs which I have been shown by the
13 solicitors who interviewed me to take this statement."
14 That is at AC24.11. I am slightly puzzled by
15 this evidence because what we are looking at, described
16 as "SC photo 1", is identical to EP25.17, which is one
17 of Mr Peress's photographs. Anyway, that is what his
18 evidence is. If we go to the map, it is at AC24.12, he
19 is placing himself at J, which is the other side of the
20 telephone box, that is to say to the east side of the
21 telephone box. The boy who he thinks Mr McGuigan was
22 referring to is said to have been at K. K is the spot
23 where Hugh Gilmore was. It may simply be that in the
24 spot where he was, this witness saw Mr McGuigan come
25 out from behind, so far as he was concerned, the
1 telephone box and would not have seen Mr Doherty, who
2 was somewhere over in this direction, and assumed that
3 Mr McGuigan was making for Gilmore when in fact he was
4 making towards Patrick Doherty.
5 LORD GIFFORD: I think there are in fact two
6 different photographs showing almost precisely the same
7 scene.
8 LORD SAVILLE: Can you give us the
9 references, then?
10 LORD GIFFORD: I was looking at Mr Peress's
11 photograph which I looked at in 814 and I was looking
12 at Mr Carlin's photograph at 728.
13 MR CLARKE: If we put on the screen AC24.11;
14 that is the photograph that is attached to his
15 statement and which somebody has written "25.17". If
16 we look at 728, that appears to be, to my eye, allowing
17 for the difference in contrast, the identical
18 photograph. I do not know why my learned friend says
19 that 728 is Mr Carlin's photograph.
20 LORD GIFFORD: I say that 814, which appears
21 in the sequence of Mr Peress's photographs, first of
22 all, it is shot with the camera horizontal rather than
23 vertical and, although it shows almost the same scene
24 there are minute differences. Where I think there is
25 an error is that 728 is also Mr Carlin's photograph but
1 814 is Mr Peress's photograph. I do not know if we can
2 see 814 on the screen, that was the contrast I was
3 making between those two, which are clearly taken
4 within seconds of each other, but are in fact
5 different.
6 MR CLARKE: That is extremely helpful. That
7 sounds to me to be right. What is misleading,
8 therefore --
9 LORD SAVILLE: Yes, you can actually tell, if
10 you look at the background, the person in the
11 background to the left, below the handkerchief being
12 held, is looking straight at the camera in the one shot
13 and to his right in the second.
14 MR CLARKE: That is helpful. What is
15 therefore misleading is to have inscribed on AC24.11,
16 the reference in the top right-hand corner "EP25.17" is
17 erroneous and should be crossed out.
18 One witness, John Davis, whose evidence
19 appears at AD8.2, gives evidence which seems to suggest
20 that Bernard McGuigan was simply seeking to get out of
21 a dangerous situation. At paragraph 13 he says this:
22 "There was a man crouched down to the right
23 beside me. I think he panicked because, shortly after
24 I arrived at point B, although I cannot recall how long
25 after, he said 'I am getting out of here' or words to
1 that effect. I was looking directly at him as he got
2 up to go and I said to him 'Stay where you are'. I did
3 not know the man at this time but now know him to be
4 Barney McGuigan.
5 "14. I said to him to stay where he was but
6 he was already up. I recall that he was wearing
7 a patterned blue anorak. To me he seemed to be middle
8 aged but I cannot recall any other details about him.
9 I cannot remember if he was wearing a scarf or not. He
10 stood up to run and I thought that he was going to run
11 towards position C because this seemed to be the only
12 likely place to go as it was not safe to go on to
13 Rossville Street.
14 "15. He took one to two steps, but he did
15 not get very far and he then fell. As soon as he got
16 up, he was dead. There was shooting going on at this
17 stage, but I cannot recall the specific shot that hit
18 him. After he fell, I remember seeing his legs. They
19 were pointing towards block 1 of the Rossville flats
20 and his head was pointing towards Joseph Place or in
21 that approximate direction, I cannot be precise.
22 I remember that one leg was crossed over the other and
23 one of them was shaking."
24 The map is at AD8.9. The position C to which
25 he is referring is the northwest of Joseph Place. He
1 was at point B. One witness, Kathleen Brown, whose
2 evidence appears at AB94.2, gives evidence that Hugh
3 Gilmore was shot by a soldier positioned at the south
4 gable end of Glenfada Park North. She also says that
5 the same soldier shot Bernard McGuigan, but she says
6 that he was coming out from the threepenny bits
7 because, paragraph 10, she says this:
8 "From where I was looking out [she was
9 looking out from Joseph Place] I saw a body running
10 around the front of the Rossville flats, shouting
11 something. I heard after Bloody Sunday that it was
12 Hugh Gilmore and that he had been shouting 'I'm hit,
13 I'm hit'. When I saw him he was near to the
14 entranceway of block 1 of the Rossville flats at point
15 2 on the map running towards point 3. He was holding
16 his right arm up. It looked as if he was trying to run
17 for cover through the gap between blocks 1 and 2 of the
18 Rossville flats and then changed his mind. I saw him
19 stop at point 3 and turn round to face the direction
20 from which he had just run. He was shouting at the
21 same time, although I could not hear what. I cannot
22 remember what he was wearing, but they were possibly
23 dungarees.
24 "11. I then saw a soldier positioned by the
25 south gable end wall of Glenfada Park North at point 4
1 on the map shoot Hugh Gilmore. I remember seeing
2 smoke come from the gun. The soldier was standing
3 positioned half behind the gable wall and half outside
4 from it. His position is marked by X on photograph D
5 attached to this statement."
6 Unfortunately photograph D does not seem to
7 be attached to this statement, but he is described as
8 at position 4. AB94.5 shows what she is talking
9 about. She had seen Hugh Gilmore at two, running
10 towards 3 and the soldier she is talking about is at
11 4.
12 There is a curiosity that has been pointed
13 out to me, which only the keenest of eyes would see.
14 If we go back to AB94.2, there is a reference in
15 paragraph 11 to the position of the soldier being
16 marked by X on photograph D attached to this
17 statement. If we go to 94.4, we will find that the
18 statement was signed on 13th November 1998. If we go
19 to 94.14, we will find a statement signed on 29th July
20 1999. That statement is identical, save in one
21 respect. If we go to AB94.12, in paragraph 11, it
22 reads:
23 "I then saw a soldier positioned by the south
24 gable end wall of Glenfada Park North at point 4", and
25 the sentence referring to the attached photograph is no
1 longer there:
2 "I remember seeing smoke come from the gun.
3 The soldier was standing positioned half behind the
4 gable wall and half outside from it. He lifted his gun
5 with one arm and fired it from his waist. He never
6 took aim, simply stepped out from behind the wall,
7 lifted the gun and fired, shooting Hugh Gilmore. Hugh
8 was not facing the soldier when he was shot. I do not
9 even think he saw the soldier. I put my hands up to my
10 face and cried 'Jesus, he is dead'. I remember the
11 soldier was quite small and had a beret on his head.
12 I cannot recall the colour.
13 "12. Hugh Gilmore fell at the gable end of
14 block 1 of the Rossville flats. He went down on to his
15 front between points 2 and 3 on the map with his head
16 facing northwards towards Rossville Street at an angle
17 and his feet were facing towards Joseph Place. After
18 Hugh Gilmore was shot, I heard more firing.
19 "13. Within a matter of seconds I saw
20 another man at point 5 marked on the map, come out from
21 behind one of the threepenny bits and walk towards
22 where Hugh Gilmore lay. The man was wearing
23 a raincoat, in fawn colour, which was open. I do not
24 remember him having anything on his neck. I would say
25 he was in his thirties. He had hair, but not a lot at
1 the front. He got up and held a white hanky up in the
2 air, waving it, looking across at the soldier at point
3 4 at Glenfada Park, as if to say 'hold your fire'. He
4 walked towards the gable end of block 1 of the flats.
5 "14. I saw the same soldier who had shot
6 Hugh Gilmore shoot this man. Again, the soldier came
7 out from behind the south gable end wall of Glenfada
8 Park North, raised his rifle with a single arm and shot
9 the man. It was a single shot. I saw smoke come from
10 the gun. I saw the man fall frontways. The place
11 I saw him fall is marked at point 6 on the map. I did
12 not know who the man was at the time, but have learned
13 since Bloody Sunday that it was Barney McGuigan."
14 AB94.16, the map, point 6 to which she refers
15 is somewhat further south of block 1 than the
16 photograph appears to show, but one wonders whether the
17 size of the circle surrounding the "3" and the "6" may
18 have dictated the precise spot where that was placed.
19 It seems pretty clear that Bernard McGuigan did not
20 come out from behind the threepenny bits, but it may be
21 -- leaving aside the question as to where he came from
22 -- that this witness in fact saw the shot that killed
23 him.
24 I have been dealing with what Bernard
25 McGuigan was doing immediately before he was shot.
1 That evidence in part addresses the second question,
2 which is: from where did the shot that killed him
3 emanate? The witnesses give markedly different
4 accounts of the place from which the shot that killed
5 him was fired. Several speak of him being shot from
6 the west or give evidence that is consistent with his
7 being shot from that direction. We have already seen
8 that Geraldine Richmond in her statement to this
9 Tribunal says that she believes that he was shot from
10 the west, although she used to think that he was shot
11 from the walls.
12 If we go now to AM174.3, we will find the
13 evidence of Sean McDaid, who was another of those who
14 had reached the gable end of block 1, in his case by
15 trotting along the south of block 2, having come
16 through the gap between blocks 2 and 3. He says at
17 paragraph 15:
18 "I was in the area for about 10 minutes, near
19 to the outbuilding at block 1, at about the point
20 marked E before the shooting intensified. There was
21 then chaos and commotion. The sounds of the shooting
22 seemed to be all around me. A man, who I now know to
23 be Barney McGuigan, stood to my left no more than one
24 or two feet away from me at about the point marked F.
25 He suddenly fell to the ground beside me. He had been
1 shot. I think I was looking at him when he was shot,
2 but I cannot be entirely certain. He fell backwards
3 with his feet towards block 1. I could see blood
4 pouring from his head. I knew he was dead and I said
5 a prayer.
6 "16. At the same time Barney McGuigan was
7 shot, we were standing at about six feet away from the
8 incinerator wall and about twelve feet away from the
9 wall of block 1. I do not recall him moving
10 immediately before he was shot. It may have been that
11 he moved next to me just before that. I do not
12 remember seeing him holding a white handkerchief.
13 I remember that he was wearing a white shirt with
14 a dark jacket and probably dark flannel trousers. I do
15 not know if he was wearing a scarf.
16 "17. I did not hear the particular shot that
17 killed Barney McGuigan. There were lots of shots at
18 the time. I think the shot may have come from the
19 Glenfada Park area across Rossville Street as I had
20 seen soldiers at Glenfada Park prior to that.
21 I originally thought that the shot came from the walls
22 because I thought that he had been shot in the back of
23 the head. However, I cannot be certain where it came
24 from. At the time he was shot I think he was facing
25 towards Glenfada Park, looking across Rossville Street.
1 "18. After he was shot I was fearful that we
2 would all be shot. From where we were, I thought that
3 we were the most obvious target for the soldiers I had
4 seen on the balconies of Glenfada Park North.
5 I huddled with some of the crowd as close as possible
6 to the wall of block 1 near to the telephone box, at
7 about the point marked G. Before this I had not really
8 taken shelter. The shooting now intensified further
9 and was coming down Rossville Street towards Free Derry
10 Corner and from the Glenfada Park area across
11 Rossville Street. I could see dust and debris coming
12 off the wall of the Rossville flats -- bullets must
13 have hit near the end of block 1. After Barney
14 McGuigan was shot a girl called Richmond went
15 hysterical. I now know her full name to be Geraldine
16 Richmond but at the time I only knew her surname. She
17 was about six feet away from me in the direction of
18 Rossville Street. A man I now know to be Barney
19 McFadden punched her on the chin and knocked her out.
20 I think he was concerned that her screaming would
21 attract fire.
22 "19. I remember thinking that I might try
23 and get to Free Derry Corner but the shooting was heavy
24 so I decided it would be too dangerous to try. Two men
25 called to me by name and suggested making a dive for
1 Molly Barr's shop at block 2 of the Rossville flats.
2 I cannot remember who they were or what they looked
3 like. I had another quick look through the gap between
4 blocks 1 and 2 and could still see the soldier kneeling
5 at the same position at the corner of the back of
6 Chamberlain Street. I called back to the men and said
7 I was staying put. They ran out anyway across the gap
8 towards block 2. As they ran out a bullet hit the
9 lightening conductor about twelve inches or so above
10 their heads on the wall at the end of block 2, at about
11 point H on the attached map. I did not see the soldier
12 fire, but the shot came from the direction of the
13 Rossville flats car park. I believed that it came from
14 the soldier I had seen at the back of
15 Chamberlain Street. I only heard that one shot from
16 there."
17 That shot, if we look at AM174.10, is said to
18 have hit the point H which appears on the screen as we
19 look at it. If we go back to AM174.3, paragraph 20:
20 "The shooting I heard from Rossville Street
21 area continued for about 15 to 20 minutes after Barney
22 McGuigan was shot. There was still a crowd of about 25
23 to 30 people against the gable end of block 1. The
24 next thing I remember is a man waving a white hanky
25 which, I think, was in his right hand. He came from
1 the vicinity of the telephone box away from block 2
2 towards Rossville Street. I thought at the time that
3 the man was foreign. He was in his 40s. I heard
4 afterwards that it may have been Fulvio Grimaldi.
5 [I pause to say it may also have been Mr Peress]. He
6 was walking in the direction of an armoured car which
7 had stopped on Rossville Street at about the point
8 marked I. At attachment 5 is a copy photograph which
9 shows the man with the handkerchief."
10 Attachment 5 is at 174.9. There is indeed
11 a man with a handkerchief, but, unless I am very much
12 mistaken, that is neither Fulvio Grimaldi nor is it
13 Gilles Peress. If we go back to 174.5, he says this:
14 "There is also a Saracen at the left of the
15 photograph. I recall that the man was walking towards
16 a Saracen which was positioned nearer to Free Derry
17 Corner than the Saracen shown in that photograph. He
18 walked about 15 to 20 paces. As he was not attracting
19 fire I decided to scarper.
20 "21. I moved very quickly from the gable end
21 of block 1 of the Rossville flats to the back of
22 Joseph Place."
23 Another witness who was there who I said we
24 would come to in due course, and to which we now do, is
25 Paul James McLaughlin. At AM350.5, we will find his
1 statement. He was a Knight of Malta who crossed from
2 the gable end of Glenfada Park North to the gable end
3 of block 1 where he saw Hugh Gilmore. He says in
4 paragraph 30:
5 "As we huddled by the telephone box, I could
6 see what I would describe as a small brick plinth
7 directly in front of me and slightly southwest. It was
8 approximately 20 feet away at point J. I believe the
9 plinth was made of brick and had a flat face at the
10 side closest to me. It was probably two or three feet
11 high, about four or five rows of bricks."
12 I think this is a description of threepenny
13 bits:
14 "As I looked at the plinth, I could see puffs
15 of smoke flying off the face of it. I believe these
16 were caused by bullets hitting it. In my opinion those
17 bullets must have been fired from the side, either the
18 area of Glenfada Park North or the area of the city
19 walls. I am sure if the bullets had been fired
20 directly at it down Rossville Street, then large chunks
21 would have been coming out of the plinth rather than
22 small puffs of smoke.
23 "31. At this stage, I was absolutely
24 terrified by the intensity of the shooting. However,
25 I then remember two things and I am not entirely sure
1 of the order in which they happened. The first thing
2 was becoming aware of a man lying wounded somewhere to
3 the southeast, between the area of the shops at the
4 bottom of block 2 of the Rossville flats and the
5 maisonettes called Joseph Place, approximately point
6 K ... I do not know how I became aware of this man
7 because I am sure from my position by the telephone
8 box, he was out of my line of vision. I later found
9 out that this man was called Paddy Doherty, but I do
10 not remember going any closer to his body. I do not
11 remember treating him.
12 "32. The second thing which I remember was
13 seeing a man who I did not know but later found out was
14 called Bernard McGuigan walk out from our group as if
15 to go and assist the man. It may have been the case
16 that Bernard McGuigan was in a better position than me
17 and actually saw the man, but I am not sure.
18 "33. Bernard McGuigan took no more than five
19 steps out from our group towards the injured man.
20 I had a clear view of the back of him and believe he
21 was wearing a dark overcoat. I am sure he was not
22 wearing a hat, but am unable to say whether he was
23 wearing a scarf as this would have been covered by the
24 back of his coat. I do not remember what he was doing
25 as he walked out and although I do not specifically
1 recall seeing him wave, he may have done.
2 "34. The shooting at this time was still
3 intense and before he had gone more than five steps,
4 I saw him fall to the floor. I did not actually see
5 him shot, I just remember seeing him fall. My memory
6 is of him falling flat on his face, although I have
7 seen photographs of him lying on his back. I do not
8 know whether this was because he was turned over or
9 whether he rolled as he fell. I definitely did not see
10 him turn round and am sure that when he was shot and
11 fell, he was facing southeast towards the injured man
12 lying by Joseph Place. The position where Bernard
13 McGuigan fell is on the attached map marked with L."
14 That witness, Paul McLaughlin, appears in
15 photograph EP26.21. He is recognisable by the Knight
16 of Malta uniform that he is wearing. He appears in
17 other photographs as well, also distinguishable by the
18 uniform, that is one of them.
19 Another of those who was at block 1 ...
20 (Pause).
21 LORD SAVILLE: While you were doing that,
22 going back to Lord Gifford's point, because I think the
23 two photographs in question were actually both taken by
24 Mr Peress. If you look at the contact sheets, and
25 I was also looking at the photographs, about 815 and so
1 on.
2 MR CLARKE: If we look at 233.17, which is
3 the contact sheet to which you have just referred, what
4 we are looking for is the second contact sheet down
5 from the top. The second photograph from the left,
6 that is photograph 813. It is also page 728. That
7 shows the gentleman who is on his haunches looking
8 towards the photographer. It is also EP25/17, which
9 shows the same. You see the person on his haunches
10 looking towards the photographer. It is also AC24.11,
11 which is the attachment to Mr Carlin's statement upon
12 which, contrary to what I said earlier, somebody has
13 correctly written "25.17".
14 If we go back to 233.17, and go back to the
15 contact print, the next photograph in the sheet is
16 third from the left. That is photograph 814 in which
17 the gentleman on the left kneeling down is looking to
18 the west, but they are both photographs of Mr Peress
19 and in the Peress series and not, it would appear --
20 I do not think anything turns on this, but for the sake
21 of accuracy, they do not appear to be photographs of
22 Mr Carlin.
23 LORD GIFFORD: I agree with that. It would
24 seem Mr Carlin's photographs have not survived.
25 LORD SAVILLE: I think that is probably the
1 case, which is a pity. But at least we have cleared up
2 one point. Thank you very much.
3 MR CLARKE: If we could go to AR28.4.
4 Michael Rooney was another of those at the telephone
5 box, sheltering between it and the transformer to the
6 east. At paragraph 15, he says this:
7 "There was then a lull in the shooting for
8 a couple of minutes and I became aware of a group of
9 men standing at the point I have marked N on the map.
10 This small group of men was about three to four yards
11 away from the southern gable end wall of block 1. They
12 were discussing the fact that someone had been shot at
13 the south end of block 2. I could not see that body
14 because my field of vision was restricted (I was still
15 in the gap between the transformer and the telephone
16 box). I did not see where this group of men had come
17 from. Among them was Bernard McGuigan. I knew Bernard
18 McGuigan well because he was my mother's cousin. The
19 last time I saw him alive he was standing with the
20 small group of men I have referred to. His whole body
21 was turned towards the southeast facing the steps that
22 lead to Fahan Street East. His left shoulder was
23 pointing towards me. The other chaps who were with him
24 were closer to me than he was. There was not a lot of
25 room between the telephone box and the transformer.
1 I was sitting on the lap of a man who was on his
2 hunkers with his back to the gable end wall. Danny
3 Murray was next to me and Billy McVeigh was facing me.
4 I could see over his head to Free Derry Corner:
5 "16. The next thing I remember is hearing
6 another series of shots ring out. I cowered
7 instinctively. I looked up when the shooting was
8 over. Bernard McGuigan was lying where he had stood at
9 point N. He had been shot in the head. There was
10 a pool of blood already forming around his head. Billy
11 McVeigh, who was facing me, had his back to
12 Mr McGuigan's body. He said that he was going to make
13 a break for it towards Free Derry Corner. I said
14 'Jesus, look behind you'. We all said the rosary.
15 "17. I have been shown a photograph which is
16 attached. This shows a number of men around the
17 telephone box. Mr McGuigan's body is in the
18 foreground. There is a man crouching, who I have
19 marked with a red arrow. He was one of the chaps who
20 was in the group with Bernard McGuigan just before he
21 was shot. I do not know his name. I do not recognise
22 any of the other individuals in the photograph and I am
23 not in the photograph myself.
24 "18. I remember that at that time I had
25 a fear of crossing the gap between blocks 1 and 2 of
1 the Rossville flats at any time, not just on this day.
2 This was because the Army observation post from the
3 Embassy Ballroom had a clear line of fire through that
4 gap. Therefore initially I assumed that Bernard
5 McGuigan had been shot through that gap. However,
6 I was confused because my impression at the time he was
7 killed was that all of the shots I had heard had come
8 from the Rossville Street area. I realised after
9 a period of reflection that Bernard McGuigan could not
10 have been shot through the gap between blocks 1 and 2
11 of the Rossville flats because he was protected from
12 the line of fire through that gap by the southern gable
13 wall of block 1. Each of the volleys of shots which
14 I have described earlier in my statement sounded like
15 a whole magazine being emptied. They did not appear to
16 be deliberate, aimed shots. My impression was that
17 shots were being fired by more than one soldier. There
18 must have been more than 108 rounds fired during the
19 course of the afternoon as stated by the Army."
20 One of the witnesses to the shooting of
21 Bernard McGuigan was Joseph Doherty, who was looking
22 from the letter box in a house in Joseph Place. He
23 gave evidence to Lord Widgery. That evidence is at
24 Day 8, page 13, where at the top of the page he said
25 this:
1 "Question: Where was the soldier who
2 appeared to fire at him?
3 Answer: He was in the alleyway leading into
4 Glenfada Park, where previously the group of people
5 where the youth and the man who had walked out to the
6 barricade were shot. They had left this entry.
7 Question: Is that about opposite the
8 barricade, there?
9 Answer: That is correct.
10 Question: Did you see him after he had been
11 shot?
12 Answer: I saw him fall, and just exactly how
13 long he lay there before I went to him, I cannot say.
14 Question: Was there any more shooting at
15 this stage?
16 Answer: There was shooting, yes, but I could
17 not see. I heard the shooting, but I could not
18 identify it.
19 Question: Did you then see a soldier go into
20 Glenfada Park?
21 Answer: The soldier that I saw shoot the man
22 just opposite the telephone box never left
23 Glenfada Park. He stayed at that alleyway.
24 Question: Did you subsequently see soldiers
25 moving back towards William Street?
1 Answer: I did.
2 Question: Did you then open the door and
3 leave the house in which you had been?
4 Answer: Yes."
5 So on that evidence Bernard McGuigan was shot
6 by a soldier in the mouth of Glenfada Park North. If
7 you go to page 14, at the bottom of the page, he was
8 asked this by Mr Hill.
9 "Mr Hill: When you saw the soldier at
10 Glenfada Park shooting, you are satisfied that it was
11 as a result of that shot that Mr McGuigan fell dead?
12 Answer: Yes, I am satisfied in my own mind.
13 Question: That soldier was firing from the
14 alleyway near the gable of Glenfada Park?
15 Answer: That is correct.
16 Question: Did he stay there?
17 Answer: He did, yes, for a time.
18 Question: Did he subsequently fire another
19 two rounds roughly in the direction of Mr McGuigan?
20 Answer: Yes.
21 Question: Could you see what he was firing
22 at at that time?
23 Answer: No, I could not.
24 Question: Could you see whether those were
25 live shots?
1 Answer: They were.
2 Question: Could you hear any noise or see
3 anything which would have justified those other two
4 shots?
5 Answer: No, I could not see anything at
6 all ...
7 Question: Did any persons go near him?
8 Answer: No.
9 Question: Did you get to him rather quickly?
10 Answer: I did.
11 Question: Would you have been one of the
12 first persons to get to him?
13 Answer: I believe I was the first person to
14 get to him.
15 Question: Could any person have removed
16 a weapon from Mr McGuigan without your knowing about
17 it?
18 Answer: No.
19 Question: Are you satisfied that he had no
20 gun, firearm, weapon or explosive?
21 Answer: I am, yes.
22 Question: Then you saw the Saracens go past
23 the barricade and down to it and pick up some bodies?
24 Answer: That is correct.
25 Question: Did any civilians say anything to
1 the soldiers at the Saracens?
2 Answer: They did, yes. They called at the
3 soldiers to come over to the Rossville flats and to
4 lift and take away two bodies that were there.
5 Question: Was that the body of Gilmore and
6 the body of McGuigan?
7 Answer: That is correct.
8 Question: Did the soldiers respond to that?
9 Answer: No, they just went back down
10 Rossville Street."
11 As I say, on that evidence Bernard McGuigan
12 was shot by a soldier at the mouth of Glenfada Park
13 North. Mr Doherty has now given a statement to this
14 Tribunal to a different effect. If we look at AD76.4,
15 at paragraph 27, he says this:
16 "He [that is Bernard McGuigan] walked out
17 from the group of people possibly 10 feet or so.
18 I have a recollection that he was looking around and my
19 impression at the time was that possibly he was
20 appealing for help. I have a recollection that he was
21 holding a handkerchief but I cannot be sure. At the
22 same time I saw two soldiers. I cannot describe them
23 in detail, but I can clearly recall them appearing at
24 the corner of the gable wall of the eastern block of
25 Glenfada Park South. I am conscious that I saw the two
1 soldiers walk up to this point, but I cannot be clear
2 whether they came through the alleyway between the
3 southern and eastern blocks or had come through the
4 alleyway between the western and southern blocks and
5 had walked along and outside the southern block
6 parallel to Fahan Street West. I have read the
7 evidence that I gave to the Lord Widgery Inquiry on the
8 position of these soldiers where I did not make it
9 clear that this was the position of the two soldiers in
10 question. I am quite clear on this, and any contrary
11 information begin, for example, in paragraph 5 of
12 a statement made by me on 25th February 1972, is
13 incorrect.
14 "28. I can recall that one soldier moved
15 back -- I believe into Glenfada Park South itself,
16 although I cannot be sure. The other stayed and
17 dropped to his knee, took aim and fired one shot at
18 Bernard McGuigan, who fell to the ground. I have
19 a very clear recollection that it was this soldier that
20 shot Bernard McGuigan. This soldier fired at least two
21 other shots, possibly more, in the same direction.
22 "29. I can recall that the other soldier
23 came back up to him and called him back. Both turned
24 around and went out of my sight."
25 What he is saying is that they appeared, the
1 soldiers, at the corner of the gable wall of the
2 eastern block at G17. If you go to AD76.6, he has not
3 actually marked where they appeared on the map but the
4 corner of the gable wall at reference G17 is in the
5 square that I am pointing out and highlighting on the
6 plan now. So he appears to be saying in this statement
7 that they appeared at that spot and one of them shot
8 from there, as opposed to somewhere at the mouth of
9 Glenfada Park North.
10 That is what he says in his statement to the
11 Tribunal which is difficult to reconcile with his
12 statement, for instance, to the Widgery Inquiry, but
13 also if we look at AD76.9, we will find his statement
14 to the Widgery Tribunal. At paragraph 4 he said:
15 "I saw soldiers beyond the barricade and they
16 were in what looked like firing positions. I saw
17 a group of people in the opening by the barricade
18 leading into Glenfada Park. I saw a youth leave the
19 group and come out to the barricade. He walked out and
20 at the barricade he leaned down as if to pick something
21 up. As he straightened up I could see nothing of any
22 size in his hands .... He had just got into a standing
23 position when he was shot.
24 "5. Immediately after the lad fell I saw
25 a man come out of the same opening. He walked out
1 towards the lad. He had nothing in his hands.
2 I cannot be certain in what position his hands were.
3 He went to lift the lad. He was shot."
4 Three lines down:
5 "The people remaining in the opening turned
6 and ran. Shortly afterwards I saw two soldiers in this
7 opening. One moved out of sight, the other stayed by
8 the gable wall at the opening. Then I looked towards
9 the telephone box and saw about ten people huddled
10 against the wall. One lad at the very edge by
11 Rossville Street was lying on the ground. I saw a man
12 walk from between Joseph Place and the flats. He was
13 holding nothing I could see. He was just walking
14 normally. When he was about six feet away from the
15 telephone box I saw the soldier in the opening take aim
16 and fire at him. The man fell. He lay still."
17 Somebody has written in manuscript
18 "McGuigan". So the oral evidence he gave was
19 consistent with the written statement that he had given
20 before, but his evidence to this Tribunal is that the
21 soldiers were outside Glenfada Park South.
22 In his NICRA statement, AD76.7, the matter
23 appears as follows, made on 31st January 1972. He said
24 this:
25 "I looked down Rossville Street as far as
1 I could see from the letter box and I saw soldiers at
2 the first row of maisonettes in Rossville Street taking
3 firing positions at the low wall in front of the
4 maisonettes [Kells Walk]. In the passageway which
5 leads to the courtyard of maisonettes in
6 Rossville Street about four men were sheltering. One
7 young man came out to the rubble which used to be
8 a barricade and bent down to pick up a stone. The
9 soldiers I had watched shot him. He fell. A man ran
10 out to drag him in and he also was shot and fell on top
11 of the youth. The passageway cleared. I then saw two
12 soldiers at the passageway. This brought them into
13 sight of the people huddling at the high flats. I saw
14 one soldier taking aim at Barney McGuigan who was
15 walking over the shelter of the flat gable and firing.
16 Barney fell."
17 There again he is talking about the
18 passageway which leads to the courtyard of maisonettes
19 in Rossville Street, from which one young man comes out
20 to the rubble barricade which, again, would appear to
21 be the entrance to Glenfada Park North.
22 It will be remembered that Soldier 227 also
23 saw a soldier kneeling on the corner of Glenfada Park
24 by the lamppost, by the rear of the first block is how
25 he described it, fire two aimed shots from the shoulder
1 in a line of fire parallel with block 2 at a man by the
2 bottom end of block 1 near the kiosk in the position
3 where Bernard McGuigan is shown. One gets that from
4 Day 16 at page 43. At the bottom of the page, after he
5 had seen the individuals being arrested at the gable
6 end of Glenfada Park North, he is asked the question:
7 "Question: Did you observe any weapons among
8 those people?
9 Answer: Yes."
10 As we saw earlier, the matter is not then
11 taken any further. He was then asked this:
12 "Question: Did you hear any sound of firing
13 from the Glenfada Park courtyard at that time or any
14 time?
15 Answer: At that particular time, no.
16 Question: Or any time later?
17 Answer: Just the rounds that had been fired
18 by the troops in the area.
19 Question: When you heard the pistol shots
20 from the Rossville flats, did you see any counteraction
21 taken?
22 Answer: Yes, I did.
23 Question: What was that?
24 Answer: A soldier kneeling on the corner at
25 Glenfada Park fired two definite shots.
1 Question: Whereabouts was the soldier
2 kneeling, so far as you observed?
3 Answer: He was kneeling by the lamppost by
4 the rear of the first block ...
5 Question: In which direction did he fire?
6 Answer: Down to my low and right.
7 Question: Parallel with the coloured block
8 of the Rossville flats?
9 Answer: Yes.
10 Question: Did you see what he was firing at?
11 Answer: No, sir, I did not.
12 Question: How many shots did he fire?
13 Answer: Two, sir ... they were deliberate
14 shots."
15 Top of the next page.
16 Question: Where had he got his gun?
17 Answer: In the shoulder."
18 Then he said he fired two shots.
19 "Question: When he fired those two shots did
20 you see any man who may have been his target?
21 Answer: Yes, I did, by the bottom end of
22 block 1.
23 Question: Was that near the telephone kiosk?
24 Answer: Yes.
25 Question: What did you see?
1 Answer: I saw a man fall, sir.
2 Question: Did a small group of people
3 gather?
4 Answer: They stood away there as soon as he
5 was hit."
6 He was asked to look at Mr Peress's
7 photographs. He was asked:
8 "Question: Do you see a man lying there?
9 Answer: Yes.
10 Question: And the other one, a man lying
11 some distance from the corner?
12 Answer: Yes.
13 Question: Is that the position in which
14 those two men were lying that you saw?
15 Answer: The man in the forecourt?
16 Question: The man in the forecourt.
17 Answer: Yes.
18 Question: That was the forecourt of the last
19 photographs, 11 and 13?
20 Answer: Yes."
21 Then he goes on to his evidence about a man
22 moving along apparently wounded. If we go to page 48,
23 at B he was asked this:
24 "Question: What was the next 7.62 firing or
25 SLR firing you heard?
1 Answer: From the corner of Glenfada Park.
2 Question: Where was that directed towards?
3 Answer: From what I could see, at the man
4 with the rifle to my low and to the right."
5 He indicated where that was. Then he said
6 that he saw somebody actually firing, "a soldier on one
7 knee firing deliberate shots":
8 "Question: In your position, with the line
9 of view you had there, could you see the telephone
10 kiosk?
11 Answer: Yes, just the corner of it.
12 Question: Presumably you could see the
13 people sheltering round the corner?
14 Answer: I saw a group here.
15 Question: Would it be the group of people
16 such as we see in photograph 13 of EP25? That is the
17 body you identified at a period later?
18 Answer: Yes.
19 Question: That was the kind of crowd you saw
20 there?
21 Answer: Yes, there was a few more there."
22 The top of the next pain page:
23 "Question: Yes, probably you are right.
24 When this body appeared here, that was after the
25 soldier had appeared from this position?
1 Answer: Yes.
2 Question: Your deduction is that it was the
3 soldier shot this man who was here?
4 Answer: Yes, sir.
5 Question: The man who was shot was quite
6 obviously in the vicinity of the telephone box or in
7 the projection lying out from the corner of the
8 telephone box?
9 Answer: In the area of the telephone box.
10 Question: You got the impression that the
11 soldier was firing at him?
12 Answer: Yes.
13 Question: Did you see that man come out
14 before he fell to the ground?
15 Answer: I was observing the general group,
16 sir, and I was not identifying any individual ... when
17 I saw him fall he was about two or three yards from the
18 group, sir."
19 He said he had obviously come from the
20 group.
21 So the gist of what he is saying is that he
22 attributes the death of the man in the position of
23 Bernard McGuigan to the soldier firing from
24 Glenfada Park.
25 There are three more civilian witnesses who
1 it is appropriate to look at under this heading. If we
2 go to AD105, we will find the evidence of Susan
3 Doherty, who was in Joseph Place at about the third
4 house down. In paragraph 21 of her statement at
5 AD105.3, she says this:
6 "I also witnessed what I now believe to be
7 the shooting of Bernard/Barney McGuigan. I did not
8 know it was Barney McGuigan at the time. I saw a man
9 with his hands in the air waving a white hanky. He was
10 standing at the southern end of block 1 of the
11 Rossville flats. I think there was a lift in the flats
12 and he was somewhere around there. As I looked out of
13 Joseph Place, block 2 of the Rossville flats blocked my
14 view of him slightly. I was only able to see his hand
15 up to his elbows. I saw that he was waving a white
16 hanky in the air. I could not see the man's face.
17 "22. I saw the soldier who shot Barney
18 McGuigan. He was walking up Rossville Street away from
19 Free Derry Corner at the northern end of
20 Glenfada Park South in the area of grid reference H16.
21 At about point 10 on the attached map the soldier
22 stopped, turned towards the man I now know to be Barney
23 McGuigan (who was at about point 9), dropped on to one
24 knee and fired across Rossville Street at him."
25 105.6 is the map. Point 10 is just to the
1 side of the Glenfada Park South pram ramp and point 9,
2 where Barney McGuigan is, is at the south of block 1.
3 So she places the soldier who shot him as nearly, but
4 not quite, in the mouth of Glenfada Park North. If we
5 go back to 105.4:
6 "The soldier had a clear view of Barney
7 McGuigan. He then calmly stood up and continued
8 walking as if nothing had happened. I do not recall
9 hearing the shot. There were hysterical people in
10 Joseph Place. I do remember seeing the recoil of the
11 rifle as he fired. This shooting sticks out in my head
12 because of the way that the soldier did it, it seemed
13 so cold blooded. I remember it clearly because it
14 bothered me that he had done that.
15 "23. I think that the soldier was wearing
16 a beret. For some reason that is in my mind but
17 I cannot be totally sure. He had no other protection
18 on his head. He was wearing normal gear, green khakis
19 like the others. He was a stockily built soldier with
20 a round face. I cannot remember whether his face was
21 blackened. I did not see colours that day, only black
22 and white. After the shooting, the soldier just got up
23 and walked away."
24 Another witness is Desmond Patrick Kyle who,
25 at AK42.6, gives evidence of the death of Bernard
1 McGuigan. He too was one of those at the south of
2 block 1. He said that after the death of Hugh Gilmore
3 he started to crawl to the east along the shops of
4 block 2 and as he did so, he saw a Paratrooper at the
5 entrance to Glenfada Park North. I pick it up at
6 paragraph 28, where he says:
7 "We edged slowly along the shops of block 2,
8 moving in a southeasterly direction. We had got about
9 a quarter of the way along the block at point L when
10 I turned around and saw a Paratrooper on the opposite
11 side of Rossville Street at the entrance to Glenfada
12 Park North at point M."
13 Point M is at AK42.17. It is close to where
14 the previous witness places the soldier in question.
15 If we go back to AK42.6, he says this, four lines down
16 in paragraph 28:
17 "I think he had come south down
18 Rossville Street [that is the opposite of what the
19 previous witness thought] because at the time I had
20 a clear view of the entranceway to Glenfada Park North,
21 and my impression was that he had not come from there.
22 The soldier continued to walk slowly southwards down
23 Rossville Street; he was quite brazen about the way he
24 was walking and was not up against a wall. The
25 soldier, who seemed to be right handed, was holding his
1 gun by his midriff and turning his head from side to
2 side, looking around. He was tall and looked
3 confident. He had a red beret on so I could tell he
4 was a Para. He had a white face with no camouflage
5 on. I do not think the sleeves of his jacket were
6 rolled up. As I saw him at point M there were no
7 people standing behind him at the gable end of the
8 eastern block of Glenfada Park North.
9 "29. The soldier saw and looked at us. He
10 lowered his gun to his hip and casually fired two shots
11 in our general direction. The shots appeared to go
12 high and I do not think they would have hit anyone. It
13 was as if the soldier was saying 'here I am', merely
14 making his presence known. After he had fired the two
15 shots, the soldier walked backwards, north up
16 Rossville Street, out of my line of sight. I was very
17 frightened when I saw him as he had the opportunity to
18 shoot us. Until then I did not think that the Army
19 knew there were people to the south of blocks 1 and 2
20 of the Rossville flats and now they knew people were
21 there they might come after us. We therefore started
22 moving quicker in a southeasterly direction along block
23 2. As we walked along by the shops we tried to get
24 into them for cover. I remember banging on the door of
25 Barr's but it was locked. As we walked along there we
1 tried to stay as close to the shops as possible.
2 I looked across to the flats at Joseph Place and the
3 people there were shouting at us words like 'don't
4 move, don't run across here, they are still
5 shooting.'".
6 That is a reference to shots fired,
7 apparently high in the air, which he does not think
8 would have hit anyone. They are certainly not shots
9 that would tally with any evidence of the soldiers. .
10 Lastly amongst the civilians under this
11 heading, a witness named William MacDermott, who was
12 looking from the middle of Joseph Place at the relevant
13 time, says at AM189.5 that he was in the passageway
14 along Joseph Place. At paragraph 21 he refers to
15 standing between the two blocks of Joseph Place and
16 looking north up Rossville Street. In paragraph 22 he
17 says:
18 "As I was peeping out of the alleyway I heard
19 a bullet pass close to my head which hit the wall
20 overhead. I heard a thud above my head. The shot
21 seemed to be fired from the area of Glenfada Park,
22 although I did not see any soldiers there. Whoever
23 fired the shot must have seen me before I saw him."
24 That is of course evidence of firing towards
25 Joseph Place, but it identifies the shot as apparently
1 coming from the area of Glenfada Park.
2 It will be recalled that Simon Winchester
3 told Lord Widgery that after he had come through the
4 alleyway between blocks 2 and 3, from the car park of
5 the Rossville flats, he went up the steps to Fahan
6 Street and saw a soldier fire between four and six
7 shots in the direction of Joseph Place from just in
8 front of Glenfada Park South and saw two people fall to
9 the ground, but they were not shot by the soldier whom
10 he had seen firing since that soldier was firing
11 towards the gap between the two Joseph Place houses,
12 which is evidence that ties in with that of William
13 McDermott we have just been looking at.
14 But he then said that he saw two more people
15 fall, an 18 year old wearing a blue denim top and
16 jacket, who was the one nearest to him, and what might
17 have been an older man with a brown overcoat. That
18 older man could have been Bernard McGuigan, although he
19 had -- I do not say Simon Winchester said that, I am
20 simply saying it is logically possible that the older
21 man could be Bernard McGuigan, although he had in fact
22 a blue anorak and not a brown overcoat.
23 There are a number of witnesses who speak in
24 general terms of a volley or volleys of shots coming
25 from the west. Thus, could we have AK30.2. AK30.2 is
1 a portion of the evidence of Edward Keogh, who says at
2 paragraph 10 that:
3 "From the living room window" -- this is
4 a flat in block 2 "I could see over towards
5 Glenfada Park, Free Derry Corner and Joseph Place.
6 I could see approximately 15 soldiers positioned near
7 Glenfada Park, aiming and firing across the front of
8 block 2 of the Rossville flats towards the Fahan Street
9 steps. There were a couple of Pigs there too."
10 Brian Doherty was one of the people who took
11 Michael Bradley through the gap between blocks 2 and 3
12 into, he said, one of the shops on the south side.
13 There came a time when he decided to leave the shop and
14 make for Free Derry Corner and as he did so a volley of
15 shots rang out, appearing to come from the west. They
16 all dropped to the ground and began crawling back to
17 block 2. One gets that at AD57.5 at paragraph 35, when
18 he said:
19 "When we had got the man through the gap
20 between block 2 and 3 we headed towards a line of
21 shops."
22 He describes how one was open and that they
23 went into the shop for about four or five minutes.
24 Paragraph 37:
25 "I decided to leave the shop and run to Free
1 Derry Corner. I seem to remember that a group of other
2 people had the same idea, and when there was a lull in
3 the firing we all ran together towards Free Derry
4 Corner ...
5 "38. We had not got very far when another
6 volley of shots rang out. By the sound of them these
7 shots seemed to be coming from our west, perhaps from
8 the area around Glenfada Park.
9 "39. We all realised that we were exposed
10 where we were and dropped to the ground at the position
11 marked F. We began crawling back towards block 2, but
12 had only got a few yards when another volley of shots
13 rang out. The position where we were when this volley
14 of shots occurred is marked with a G.
15 "40. I think I saw some of these shots
16 striking the ground as I was down on the ground at
17 position G. I saw two or three sparks fly up from the
18 concrete in front of me. These sparks cannot have been
19 the muzzle of flashes of guns being fired since they
20 were so close to me and I could not see any soldiers.
21 I could not tell from the sparks themselves where the
22 guns had been fired from, but the second volley of
23 shots seemed to come from the same direction as the
24 first, i.e. Glenfada Park."
25 The map is at AD57.11 and the place where the
1 shots are alleged to have landed is G. At AD5.4, we
2 will find the evidence of Thomas Ralph Dawes, who was
3 at the south of block 2, where he saw four or five men
4 running past him and carrying the body of a wounded
5 person into what may have been the second house in
6 Joseph Place. Picking it up at paragraph 20:
7 "I remember seeing the body of a man lying at
8 the position I have marked H on the attached plan. He
9 was lying on the ground with his head facing south and
10 his legs nearer to the Rossville flats. He was lying
11 on his stomach. His face turned away from me. I did
12 not recognise the man at all, and cannot specifically
13 remember anything about him. He may have been wearing
14 a dark jacket."
15 H is at AD5.10 and is at a spot not normally
16 associated with a body. H is on its side, it is where
17 I am pointing to. If we go back to AD5.4, he says
18 this, paragraph 21:
19 "I walked towards this body, but as I did so
20 I was shot at. Bullets hit the pavement in front of
21 me, the chips of the paving slabs flew towards me so
22 I knew that the shots must have come from the direction
23 of Rossville Street and Glenfada Park.
24 "22. As soon as these shots rang out I fell
25 to the ground for cover. I then crawled back in
1 a southerly direction towards Joseph Place."
2 Similarly Noel Doherty, whose evidence
3 appears at AD91.6, came round the south of block 2 from
4 the alleyway between block 2 and 3. He says this,
5 paragraph 32:
6 "When I reached the southern part of block 2
7 of the Rossville flats, there were people making their
8 way out of the area by crawling south along the east of
9 Joseph Place. Usually, I would have walked home past
10 the threepenny bits and across the open ground, heading
11 for home in Cable Street. Although there seemed to be
12 a lull in the shooting at this point, I did not feel
13 I could go across to the open ground.
14 "33. However, before I could think further
15 about how I would escape the shooting I noticed someone
16 lying on the ground near the western gable end of block
17 2 ... I started walking down towards him. The man was
18 lying on his back in the approximate position numbered
19 11, with his head pointing towards Joseph Place and his
20 feet towards Rossville Street. Blood was flooding out
21 of his head. He wore nothing on his head and his face
22 was uncovered. To the best of my recollection he was
23 not wearing a scarf. Upon seeing him, I became
24 terribly frightened. I was within six to ten feet or
25 so of him when people sheltering by the telephone kiosk
1 in the approximate position marked 12 shouted at me to
2 take cover. At about the same time, shooting
3 recommenced. The shooting was very intense. I could
4 not tell where the shooting was coming from, although
5 at the time I thought the shooting was coming from the
6 direction of Glenfada Park North. I turned and ran
7 east back towards the alleyway at the rear of Joseph's
8 Place."
9 If you look at the map at 91.8, he refers to
10 the body being in the spot marked 11, which is not
11 where Bernard McGuigan's body was, it is a bit further
12 to the southeast, but the description of the body is
13 very similar.
14 Lastly, at AK22, you will find the evidence
15 of Patrick James Kelly. He is one of those who was at
16 the south of block 1. AK22.5, he says this:
17 "... I saw that Barney McGuigan had been
18 shot. He was lying about two or three yards away from
19 me and I have marked his position as K on the plan ...
20 Some people have suggested that shots may have been
21 fired from the city walls and I am of the opinion that
22 this is correct and that Mr McGuigan was hit by one of
23 these shots."
24 He says at paragraph 27:
25 "There was heavy shooting all the time that
1 I was sheltering by the telephone box. The level of
2 shooting had intensified from when I had just come out
3 of the Rossville flats car park. The shooting must
4 have lasted about 10 minutes. Again, I am not sure how
5 many shots were fired, but there were only very slight
6 gaps in the gunfire. There may also have been single
7 shots fired as well as the volleys of gunfire. I am
8 not entirely sure from where the shots were fired.
9 However, their direction seemed to have changed and
10 I think that the firing was coming from the region of
11 Kells Walk which is on the west side of
12 Rossville Street, north of the rubble barricade."
13 He then describes, paragraph 29, "a lull in
14 the shooting" and he:
15 "Crept a little way to the south, close to
16 Mr McGuigan's body" and "peered east around the west
17 gable end of block 2. I could see another body lying
18 at the point marked L [approximately where Mr Doherty's
19 body was]."
20 He says:
21 "As I turned to face northwest I could see
22 a group of two or three soldiers crouching behind a low
23 wall at the point that I have marked M. I also attach
24 as appendix 3 a copy of a photograph where I have
25 marked the position of the soldiers with an X."
1 That photograph is at AK22.8. This is not
2 the wall to the south of Kells Walk, but it is the
3 little wall to the south of Glenfada Park North. So he
4 saw soldiers there when he turned round. Go back to
5 AK22.5, the bottom half of the page he says this, fifth
6 line, paragraph 30:
7 "I could only see the heads and shoulders of
8 these solders. I only got a fleeting glance at the
9 soldiers and was too far to get a clear view. I can
10 therefore not properly describe the soldiers but
11 I could see that they were wearing helmets. I am not
12 sure but I think they were wearing visors which partly
13 concealed their faces, which I think were blackened.
14 They were wearing the usual Army camouflage uniforms.
15 Their rifles were pointing over the wall towards me.
16 The soldiers made no movement towards me, but I went
17 back to the safety of the telephone kiosk."
18 So he opines that Barney McGuigan was shot
19 from the walls, but he refers to firing coming from the
20 region of Kells Walk and seeing two or three soldiers
21 behind a low wall in a firing position at the south of
22 Glenfada Park North.
23 I wonder whether that might be a convenient
24 moment?
25 LORD SAVILLE: Yes, 9.30 tomorrow morning,
1 please.
2 (3.03 pm)
3 (Proceedings adjourned until
4 Thursday, 22nd June 2000 at 9.30 am)