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Page 1


1 Wednesday, 21st June 2000

2 (9.33 am)

3 MR CLARKE: We had been looking yesterday at

4 the photographs that Mr Peress took, firstly of

5 Jack Duddy in the car park of the Rossville flats; and

6 then, as he came to the bottom of the car park, at the

7 people crawling along the wall at the southeast; then

8 the photographs that he took as he came round the gap

9 between blocks 2 and 3 to the south of the Rossville

10 flats.

11 Could we have on the screen M65.21 so that we

12 can see the sequence that he describes, paragraph 14

13 and onwards, in his own words. He says there:

14 "I saw the men [those who were crawling along

15 the wall at the southeast of the car park] make their

16 way through the alleyway which existed between blocks 2

17 and 3 and disappear from view. I thought that if they

18 managed to get through then I should follow them. Less

19 than one minute after the men had disappeared from my

20 view, I ran in a crouched position from point G2 to

21 point I. When I got there I immediately saw Patrick

22 Doherty lying on the ground at point J."

23 If we look at M65.23, we can find where he is

24 talking about. He ran from the crouched position at

25 G2, which is closer to the wall than G1 and he got to


Page 2


1 the position marked I from which he took the

2 photographs of Patrick Doherty who was lying at point

3 J, at the entrance to the alleyway at the back of

4 Joseph Place. He says that he ran from point G to

5 point I less than a minute after the men had

6 disappeared from his view through the gap between

7 blocks 2 and 3. If we go back to M65.21, he then says

8 this, having said he saw Patrick Doherty lying on the

9 ground at point G with his feet towards him:

10 "He was clearly extremely badly wounded if

11 not dead. There was a man behind Doherty crawling on

12 his belly towards Doherty shouting something with an

13 expression of shock on his face. I took photographs 9A

14 to 11 on contact sheet B [we saw those yesterday]

15 turned to my right and took photographs 11 A/12

16 (contact sheet B) [that was the photograph to the west]

17 and then turned back to focus on Doherty and took

18 photographs 12A to 14."

19 Then there is the passage I read yesterday:

20 "15. From what I saw that day, I cannot see

21 how Doherty could have been shot whilst he was crawling

22 along the wall that runs parallel to block 3. In my

23 opinion he must have been shot after he had rounded the

24 southeastern corner of block 2 ...

25 "16. Whilst I was photographing Doherty,


Page 3


1 shooting was still going on. I thought at the time

2 that it was coming from my right (i.e. from the

3 west/northwest). I then made my way from point I to

4 point K on the attached map. There I photographed a

5 man I later found out was called Bernard McGuigan lying

6 dead in a pool of blood. Shortly before photographing

7 McGuigan, the gunfire stopped. At this point

8 I remember photographing a man amongst the civilians

9 waving a white handkerchief. Nearby McGuigan

10 sheltering by a telephone box were a number of

11 civilians. There was also the body of a young man at

12 the southwestern corner of block 1 about 30 yards from

13 McGuigan. Photographs 9 to 10A on contact sheet D

14 shows though scene. I should point out that the grid

15 referenced map attached to this statement does not in

16 my opinion accurately represent the telephone box

17 area. In particular I think that the gap between

18 blocks 1 and 2 is too big and the angle between them is

19 wrong."

20 I will come to those photographs in a moment,

21 I mention them there simply to have them in sequence.

22 As we have seen, Mr Peress said that he made

23 his move less than a minute after the men had

24 disappeared from his view through the gap. There is,

25 however, some evidence that may cast doubt upon that


Page 4


1 timing. At AN17.2 we will find the evidence of Joseph

2 Alphonsus Nicholas, who was one of those who was

3 crawling through the alleyway between blocks 2 and 3.

4 If we go to EP25.8.1, he identifies himself as being

5 the young man who appears on the annotated version of

6 photograph EP25.8 that is now on the screen. So he was

7 one of those who Mr Peress was taking a photograph of.

8 If we go then back to AN17.4, he says at paragraph 17:

9 "I then headed off south across the Rossville

10 flats car park. I walked along by the high concrete

11 wall which was on the eastern side of the car park.

12 I walked upright at a reasonably quick pace. People on

13 either side of me were crawling along. There was a low

14 wall which ran parallel with the high wall and people

15 were getting cover from that as well. People were

16 heading, as I was, toward the gap between blocks 2 and

17 3. When I got to the end of the low wall there was a

18 set of steps which led down to the lower part of the

19 car park in the southeast corner. At this time I was

20 aware of shots hitting the high concrete wall above my

21 head. They were quite close and I instinctively threw

22 myself towards the steps. I seem to remember landing

23 on someone, although I do not know who and could not

24 describe them. Just as I came down the steps I became

25 aware of a photographer who was lying on his belly in


Page 5


1 the lower area of the car park, to the north of block 2

2 at point H. He was tight up against a low wall there

3 and was taking photographs. I have since seen the

4 photographs which he was taking [that is obviously

5 Mr Peress].

6 "18. I could still hear shooting so

7 I started to crawl through the gap between blocks 2 and

8 3. I made my way as far as the southeast corner of

9 block 2 where I stood up again. As I looked around the

10 corner towards Glenfada Park South I saw two soldiers

11 standing at the northeastern corner of

12 Glenfada Park South at about point I. I remember that

13 one of them was black. They were both in a firing

14 position facing towards me. They appeared to be

15 squatting down. I did not see them fire any shots."

16 May we have AN17.18, where we will find the

17 map. The photographer of whom he spoke was close down

18 by a wall at point H, which is approximately where

19 Mr Peress was initially; and the soldiers of whom he

20 speaks, at the northeast corner of Glenfada Park South,

21 are at point I on the map at which we are now looking.

22 We need to have in mind J and K to which we will be

23 coming in a moment.

24 Back to AN17.5. At paragraph 19, he says:

25 "Some people were crossing from my position


Page 6


1 to an alleyway which ran behind the north block of

2 Joseph Place. The entrance to the alleyway is at point

3 J. I would estimate that about half a dozen people

4 came through the gap between blocks 2 and 3 and headed

5 off towards the alleyway. I think they were all men.

6 Because I had seen the soldiers aiming towards me from

7 the Glenfada Park South, I decided to stay where

8 I was.

9 "20. I then saw a man, who I now know to be

10 Paddy Doherty, crawling past me close to the wall which

11 ran parallel with the city walls between block 3 and

12 Joseph Place. I recognised him as one of the people

13 I had passed earlier in the Rossville flats car park

14 although I did not know who he was at the time. He had

15 been crawling along in front of the high concrete walls

16 as I had been walking. He was wearing a blazer jacket

17 and a white hanky over his face.

18 "21. He started to crawl towards the

19 alleyway behind Joseph Place. He was lying on his

20 stomach and crawling along using his elbows. He had

21 got about two-thirds of the way across the gap towards

22 the alleyway behind Joseph Place, to approximately the

23 point marked K, when he was shot. I knew he had been

24 shot because I saw the right-hand side of the back of

25 his coat lift up. He then collapsed onto his face and


Page 7


1 lay still. I could see that he was lying with his head

2 pointing west, towards the alleyway behind Joseph Place

3 and his feet pointing towards me. Because I had seen

4 the two soldiers at Glenfada Park South, I assumed they

5 had shot him.

6 "22. There was a group of people at the

7 entrance of the alleyway to which Paddy Doherty had

8 been heading. They had already got across the open

9 space and were urging him on before he was hit. One of

10 that group came out to try and rescue Paddy Doherty

11 after he had been shot. I believe that the rescuer was

12 then shot in the leg and he was dragged back into the

13 group in the alleyway. A second person then came out

14 and again appeared to be shot around the legs and

15 dragged back. I believe both of these men were

16 standing up, although they may have been crouching over

17 as they came out. Finally, a third person crawled

18 out. I now know that this man was Paddy Walsh. He got

19 to Paddy Doherty and I believe he whispered something

20 in his ear.

21 "23. I then went back through the gap

22 between blocks 2 and 3, to where I had seen the

23 photographer in the Rossville flats car park. I spoke

24 to him. It was obvious that he was foreign.

25 I conveyed to him that he should come with me to take a


Page 8


1 photograph of Paddy Doherty. He then followed me back

2 to my position at the southeast corner of block 2 and

3 began to take photographs of Paddy Doherty and Paddy

4 Walsh. I shall refer to the photographs in paragraph

5 28 below.

6 "24. About five or ten minutes elapsed and

7 then the shooting stopped. People started to come out

8 from where they had been taking cover. First aiders

9 came (they may have been Knights of Malta) and tended

10 to Paddy Doherty. I went and looked at Paddy Doherty's

11 body. I did not touch him."

12 If we go to 17.6, we will find paragraph 28

13 where he says this:

14 "I have seen a series of photographs, copies

15 of which are attached to this statement [they are

16 Mr Peress's photographs in the Rossville flats car park

17 and at the south of the Rossville flats]. I believe

18 they were taken by the photographer I saw behind the

19 low wall in front of block 2 on Bloody Sunday."

20 The he identifies himself on one of the

21 photographs which has given rise to the annotated EP

22 photograph we saw a moment ago:

23 "Paddy Doherty in appendix 4 is circled in

24 blue. Appendices 8 to 11 are a series of photographs

25 showing Paddy Doherty lying on his back. The person


Page 9


1 crawling out to him is Paddy Walsh, the third person

2 I saw go out to help him. I am not sure how Paddy

3 Doherty came to be turned over. When I saw him being

4 shot, he slumped on to his front. I originally

5 believed that these photographs had been taken by the

6 photographer I saw on Bloody Sunday."

7 Pausing there, on that account Mr Nicholas,

8 looking from the gap between block 2 and 3, sees

9 Patrick Doherty crawl past him. Two rescuers come out

10 and both are apparently shot in the leg -- I do not

11 know who either of those are -- and then Mr Walsh is

12 the third rescuer; after which Mr Nicholas himself goes

13 back into the car park and gets the photographer.

14 A process that one might think would last a bit more

15 than a minute, though not necessarily much.

16 If we go to AO55.2, we will find the

17 statement, or a part of the statement, of John Finbar

18 O'Laughlin, who gives an account of the sequence of

19 events before Patrick Doherty died. He was on the

20 gable wall on the east side of Chamberlain Street with

21 a group of other people. At paragraph 9, he says this:

22 "A man in our group, when he realised there

23 was a lull, said 'It is over'. He put his hands above

24 his head and walked south towards the gap between

25 blocks 2 and 3 of the Rossville flats. I cannot recall


Page 10


1 any particular details about this man. I think that he

2 seemed older than me, perhaps in his mid thirties. He

3 walked with his hands up in the air and, as he got to

4 the gap between blocks 2 and 3, the shooting started

5 again. I could not see him at that time, but I think

6 that he had certainly reached the gap between blocks 2

7 and 3, and was almost through it, when the second burst

8 of shooting started.

9 "10. Then there was another lull in the

10 shooting and, almost instinctively, the rest of us all

11 walked in the same direction that the man had. We all

12 had our hands above our heads. As we reached the gap

13 between blocks 2 and 3, we then saw that the man I have

14 described above had been shot. He was lying down.

15 I knew he was dead -- there was no life about him.

16 I can only surmise that he was either shot from the

17 front (south) of the Rossville flats or from a ricochet

18 bullet from the soldiers on the wasteground at the

19 entrance to the Rossville flats car park, because

20 I think that he was out of view of the soldiers when he

21 was in the gap between blocks 2 and 3. I am unable to

22 say where the shots which I heard as he walked towards

23 the gap came from.

24 "11. I refer to the copy photograph at

25 appendix 2."


Page 11


1 That is at AO55.5 and shows Patrick Doherty.

2 If we go back to where we were, paragraph 11:

3 " ... On the left of the photograph is the

4 man who walked out, and we later saw him lying on the

5 ground. I cannot say whether this photograph shows the

6 location where I saw him in the gap between blocks 2

7 and 3 of the Rossville flats, though. A few of us,

8 including Jim McFahan and I, walked south past him

9 towards the front of block 2 of the Rossville flats.

10 We then walked west down the front side of block 2. As

11 we did so, I saw a man lying beside a telephone box at

12 the south end of block 1 of the Rossville flats."

13 Then he goes on to give a description of a

14 man who seems almost certainly to be Bernard McGuigan.

15 That is somebody who is in the car park and who saw

16 Patrick Doherty going to the southeast of the car park,

17 though the description of him so doing refers to him

18 walking with his hands in the air; although the

19 photograph shows that, certainly at some stage, in the

20 southeast corner, he was crawling along the wall.

21 We saw yesterday the photographs taken by

22 Mr Peress of Patrick Doherty. In bundle P6 there are a

23 series of photographs, beginning at 708, of Patrick

24 Doherty on the day. This is a photograph at the

25 barrier and he is, I believe, the gentleman to whom


Page 12


1 I am pointing. The photographs that follow in this

2 part of P6 -- which, for those who look at it in hard

3 copy, is to be found at tab 12 of that bundle -- are

4 the photographs of Mr Peress; firstly page 709, the

5 sequence that begins with that photograph. We will not

6 look through the sequence again.

7 Then at 714, the sequence that begins south

8 of the Rossville flats. Again, we will not look at

9 that sequence a second time.

10 But there are also, included in these

11 photographs, two photographs taken by Mr Grimaldi which

12 show the same scene. One is at 717. That is

13 photograph EP26.19, but is included in this section of

14 photographs because it is the section that relates to

15 Patrick Doherty.

16 719, which is EP26.17, is also taken by

17 Mr Grimaldi. There is a geographical feature that is

18 referred to in some of the evidence, namely that to the

19 west of Mr Doherty and Mr Walsh there is an area of

20 brickwork of brickwork in the middle of which there is

21 a tree. To the north of the brickwork the ground on

22 which the paving stones are laid falls, so that the

23 brickwork stands proud of the paving stones. That is a

24 feature to which reference is made in some of the

25 evidence to which we shall come in due course. If one


Page 13


1 goes back to, for instance, photograph 715, it may be

2 clearest. We can see the beginning of the brickwork on

3 the right-hand side of the photograph.

4 If one looks at these photographs, in

5 particular a photograph such as 717, they might be

6 thought to indicate that Patrick Doherty was lying

7 approximately equidistant between the first two sets of

8 stanchions. If you look at 717, that impression seems

9 all the greater. But, as we can see from photograph

10 720 which we saw on an earlier occasion, it would

11 appear that he is in fact much closer to the second

12 stanchion to the east and very close to the alleyway

13 which is in the background behind.

14 Another witness, or a witness who is or may

15 be an eyewitness to the death of Patrick Doherty is

16 John Gallagher. At AG17.3 we will find his statement.

17 He describes, in paragraph 13, the canopy over the

18 pavement:

19 " ... which runs alongside the parade of

20 shops on the south facade of block 2 of the Rossville

21 flats. I hit the deck and started crawling on my

22 stomach, using my elbows, along the pavement below the

23 canopy towards the gap between blocks 2 and 3 of the

24 Rossville flats."

25 He is on that account crawling from the west


Page 14


1 to the east along the south of block 2.

2 Then he says this:

3 "14. When I had reached about halfway along

4 block 2, nearly level with the alleyway which runs

5 along the eastern side of Joseph Place, one of the

6 group of four or six fellows who were behind me said

7 that he was going to cross over to that alleyway."

8 Pausing there, the alleyway which runs along

9 the eastern side of Joseph Place, by which I assume he

10 means the alleyway at the back of the Joseph Place

11 houses, is some way further than half away along block

12 2.

13 Never mind; take the statement in its own

14 terms. He says that:

15 "One of the group of four or six fellas who

16 were behind me said that he was going to cross over to

17 that alleyway. When the man said that he was going

18 across, I turned round to half face him and talk to

19 him. I did not know him then but I have since found

20 out his name was Patrick Doherty. I tried to persuade

21 him not to cross over, but to continue towards the

22 corner of block 2 and the gap between blocks 2 and 3,

23 but he did not agree. He started making his way over

24 to the alleyway. He was lying on his belly and pulling

25 himself along with his elbows. I heard two or three


Page 15


1 sharp cracks of gunfire and I saw shots hitting a wall

2 ahead of me at the point I have marked E on the

3 attached map."

4 AG17.16 is the attached map. That shows

5 point E at the point that you would expect it to be,

6 namely the wall on the east side. Back to where we

7 were. Halfway through paragraph 14:

8 "I threw myself on my back close up against

9 the facade of block 2 and looked northwest towards

10 Glenfada Park North. I saw three soldiers kneeling out

11 in the open in the approximate position I have marked F

12 on the attached map [that is at the mouth of Glenfada

13 Park North]. I have also marked their approximate

14 positions on the attached photograph marked A. I saw

15 their uniforms and their helmets, but I did not

16 actually see them fire their weapons, although I was

17 sure at the time that the man who was hit had been shot

18 by the three soldiers. As soon as I saw the soldiers,

19 they lowered their rifles from the aim position (butts

20 of the rifles at their cheeks) and got up and moved

21 away. At about that time the man who had started

22 crawling towards Joseph Place cried out that he had

23 been shot and that he could not move. I tried to

24 persuade him to keep moving if he could.

25 "15. Just then one of the other men who was


Page 16


1 crawling along behind me started to go out to the aid

2 of Patrick Doherty.

3 "16. I think this man was also shot at, but

4 I do not think he was injured. A further man, whom

5 I later was told was Alexander Nash, although I was not

6 able to identify him myself, went out to their aid.

7 The third man was shot in the hip or buttock. I did

8 not see who shot at him.

9 "17. I carried on heading towards the corner

10 of the southern gable end of block 2 and when I reached

11 there I took cover."

12 There are a number of problems in relation to

13 this account. Firstly, the description of Patrick

14 Doherty crawling behind this witness, going in an

15 easterly direction along the south of block 2, is

16 inconsistent with a substantial body of evidence, and

17 the photographs, which show him in the southeast corner

18 of the car park of the Rossville flats.

19 Secondly, nobody else suggests that

20 Alexander Nash went to the aid of Patrick Doherty and

21 the evidence of this witness is not that he identified

22 Alexander Nash as doing so, but that somebody told him

23 that the man he was talking about was Alexander Nash.

24 Thirdly, there is a reference to a third man

25 of those who started to go out to the aid of Patrick


Page 17


1 Doherty being shot in the hip or buttock. I do not

2 know who that could be, in the sense that there is

3 nobody described as a rescuer of Patrick Doherty who

4 was so shot -- apart from, I think, in this

5 paragraph -- though it may in fact be referring to

6 Daniel McGowan.

7 If we go to AG17.9, we will see the

8 photograph upon which he identifies the approximate

9 position of the soldiers at Glenfada Park North by

10 three X's. It is, as we can see, at the mouth of the

11 Glenfada Park North car park.

12 Another witness to Patrick Doherty's death,

13 and who gave evidence to Lord Widgery, was the late

14 Derrik Tucker who lived in block 2 in 31 Garvan Place.

15 His bedroom lay towards Chamberlain Street and his

16 living room towards Joseph Place. His evidence to

17 Lord Widgery is that from his living room window he saw

18 two men in the alleyway behind the Joseph Place

19 maisonettes, who appeared to be wounded because they

20 were helped into the second house along that alleyway.

21 He then noticed a man directly beneath the window,

22 known to him when he came to give evidence to be

23 Paddy Doherty, crawl out towards that alleyway. A

24 further shot then rang out. The man gave a kick with

25 his right leg and lay still.


Page 18


1 If we go to Widgery transcript, Day 7, page

2 10 at D, second half of the page:

3 "Answer: ... There is a small alleyway that

4 runs the whole length of those flats behind the

5 gardens. It was in this alleyway that these men were

6 lying."

7 He identified it in aerial photograph 6,

8 which is EP21.6. At E he was asked this:

9 "Question: Do you know who any of those men

10 were?

11 Answer: No, but two of them who appeared to

12 be shot were helped into the house, into those

13 maisonettes ...

14 Question: Did these men appear to be shot

15 dead or wounded?

16 Answer: No, wounded because they were able

17 too walk when they were arrested.

18 Question: Continue with what you were going

19 to say.

20 Answer: I then noticed a man directly

21 beneath the window start to crawl out towards the

22 alleyway itself when a further shot rang out. He gave

23 a kick with his right leg and then lay still.

24 Question: Did you ascertain subsequently who

25 that man was?


Page 19


1 Answer: That man was Paddy Doherty.

2 Lord Widgery: Would you show me on the

3 photograph where Mr Doherty lay? [He did so] The

4 position that he describes is midway between the rear

5 edge of Rossville flats and the wall which runs from

6 Joseph Place back towards the car park. There is an

7 open area between Rossville flats and Joseph Place. He

8 puts Mr Doherty central in that area as between the

9 flats and Joseph Place, but one eighth of the way up

10 from the eastern end of that open area.

11 Mr Gibbens: My imagination is not

12 sufficiently vivid.

13 Lord Widgery: Let me mark your plan. I have

14 put a large blue dot in the place. You will find it is

15 exactly as I described."

16 The large blue dot in the place has not

17 survived. The photograph they were all looking at is

18 EP21.6. What I take the witness, as interpreted by

19 Lord Widgery, to be pointing to is midway between the

20 rear edge of the Rossville flats, which is where I am

21 pointing, and the wall which runs from Joseph Place

22 back towards the car park, which is again where I am

23 pointing. Lord Widgery says he puts Mr Doherty central

24 in that area as between the flats and Joseph Place, but

25 one eighth of the way up from the eastern end of that


Page 20


1 open area, which I assume is approximately in line with

2 the alleyway that leads behind Joseph Place. That is

3 consistent with all the photographs we have seen, or

4 near enough thereto.

5 In addition to Derrik Tucker, two of his sons

6 were watching at this time, who did not give evidence

7 to Lord Widgery but who have made statements for the

8 assistance of this Tribunal. Martin, then aged 17, has

9 made a statement which takes the matter a little

10 further. It which appears at AT17.5. He was looking

11 out of a south-facing kitchen. At paragraph 32 he

12 describes matters as follows:

13 "I saw two men running close together along

14 the front of block 2 of the Rossville flats by the

15 shops (from northwest to southeast). I thought they

16 were running to the alleyway behind Joseph Place. I

17 did not see them carrying anything. They were shot

18 before they got there, at the point marked J on the

19 map. I thought they were only shot in the leg. It was

20 so strange, it was almost like watching a movie. They

21 managed to get to safety. I think they got into the

22 alleyway behind Joseph Place or into a house. (I think

23 a couple of people helped them). The men were in their

24 thirties maybe. They were not old men, but they were

25 not teenagers. I do not remember anything about what


Page 21


1 they were wearing."

2 AT17.16 will show us where point J is. It is

3 just at the back wall of the gardens of Joseph Place.

4 Going back to 17.5, he says at paragraph 33:

5 "I could not see where the men were shot

6 from, however. I remember commenting at the time that,

7 from the sound of the shots, the soldiers must have

8 been well down south on Rossville Street, maybe as far

9 as Glenfada Park South. Soldiers had never come past

10 the rubble barricade before. Since that day, I have

11 heard talk about firing from the city walls. That did

12 not even occur to me at the time. I thought the

13 shooting was coming from the direction of

14 Rossville Street and Glenfada Park South.

15 "34. There was a lot of confusion, shouts

16 and squeals. I heard several shots in rapid succession

17 but it was not machine-gun. I did not hear any nail

18 bombs or big explosions then or at any time that day.

19 "35. I was moving between the kitchen and

20 the living room windows. I saw another man who I now

21 know to be Paddy Doherty creeping along the ground in

22 front of the fish shop, which was directly beneath our

23 kitchen and living room windows, trying to get to the

24 alleyway behind Joseph Place. The man was wearing a

25 jacket, I think it was checked, with a fur collar. He


Page 22


1 had dark hair and a moustache. I do not remember him

2 wearing a scarf or gloves or having his face covered.

3 There was nothing in his hands. Although he was

4 crawling slowly, he seemed to be fine at that stage.

5 He was about halfway between the shops and the alleyway

6 at point K on the map, when his right leg jerked out.

7 It looked like a spasm. I assumed he was shot in his

8 right-hand side because it was his right leg that

9 jerked. I could not see any blood but I knew

10 immediately that he was dead. He lay face down on his

11 stomach with his arms out in front of him. I did not

12 hear him say anything.

13 "37. A couple of people in the alleyway

14 behind Joseph Place tried crawling out to help him.

15 I think they tried two or three times and called out to

16 him, but had to give up because the shooting

17 continued. They were obviously very distressed because

18 they had to give up and watch someone dying in front of

19 them.

20 "37. I thought he had been shot by someone

21 who must have been well up by Glenfada Park South. The

22 next day you could see bullet holes along the wall in

23 the area that ran parallel to Fahan Street East."

24 That is evidence of Patrick Doherty being

25 shot, apparently from the Rossville Street direction,


Page 23


1 and a couple of people in the alleyway trying to crawl

2 towards him; and, prior thereto, of two thirty year

3 olds, or thereabouts, running from the shops to the

4 alley and being shot in the leg before they got there.

5 It may be that there is somebody who either

6 was, or appeared to be -- or possibly more than one

7 person who was -- shot, at any rate appeared to be, at

8 this alleyway, approaching it or near to it. If there

9 is such a person, as I say, he is not someone whom we

10 have yet identified or whom any witness has by name

11 identified to us.

12 The second Tucker son who was watching was

13 Derrik, who was the younger brother of Martin. His

14 statement -- he was 12 at the time -- appears at

15 AT15.10. He says this at paragraph 26:

16 "As the courtyard cleared of people, the

17 family moved to the other side of the flat to see what

18 was happening. Almost immediately my attention was

19 drawn to a man who was crawling from the direction of

20 the alleyway between blocks 2 and 3 of the flats

21 towards the northeast corner of the maisonettes at

22 Joseph Place. He had short dark hair and was wearing

23 dark trousers, but I cannot remember much else about

24 him. I could see another man who was standing just

25 behind the gable wall at the northeast end of Joseph


Page 24


1 Place. He was a balding man wearing a handkerchief

2 around his neck. I now know him to be Paddy Walsh. He

3 is the same man who appears in the attached

4 photograph."

5 It says "reference EP35/16". I think that is

6 a misprint for "EP25/16", which is one of the

7 photographs showing Patrick Walsh:

8 "He appeared to be signalling to people in

9 the alleyway between blocks 2 and 3 to indicate when it

10 was safe to cross the open ground between the alleyway

11 and Joseph Place.

12 "27. The man who I saw crawling reached a

13 position approximately midway between the alleyway at

14 blocks 2 and 3 and the gable end wall of Joseph Place.

15 I heard three or four gunshots in quick succession.

16 I have mark the position of the crawling man at the

17 time that I heard the shots at D. I saw some dust or

18 smoke rising from the wall to his left-hand side, i.e.

19 the wall which was parallel to the gable end of block 2

20 and continues in a southwesterly direction behind the

21 maisonettes at Joseph Place. (The next day I went to

22 look at the wall at the same position and saw that

23 there were bullet marks on it. The approximate

24 position of the bullet holes is marked on the map at

25 E). It seemed to me that the shots came from the


Page 25


1 direction of Glenfada Park or Rossville Street,

2 although I did not see a soldier in that general area

3 at the time the shots were fired."

4 The map is AT15.21. The shot man is at D and

5 the place where the bullet holes were seen is at E.

6 Going back to AT15.10, the bottom half of the page,

7 last paragraph:

8 "28. At the same time the shots were fired,

9 the man who I had seen crawling jerked as if he was

10 having a spasm. He then stopped crawling and lay flat

11 on his stomach. I believe that he is the other person

12 shown in the photograph attached to the statement which

13 also shows Paddy Walsh. (EP25/16). I have been told

14 that the man's name is Paddy Doherty, one of the men

15 who was killed on Bloody Sunday. I believe, from what

16 I have just said, that I witnessed the shot that killed

17 him. I do not recall hearing any gunfire following the

18 incident I have just referred to. However, at about

19 the same time I noticed a group of people taking cover

20 behind a wall about two feet high that ran parallel to

21 the rear of the maisonettes at Joseph Place. I have

22 marked the approximate position of these people at F.

23 These people were crouched behind the wall and seemed

24 to me to be taking cover. They were well protected by

25 the maisonettes from any gunfire which may have come


Page 26


1 from the direction of Glenfada Park or

2 Rossville Street. I therefore assumed that they had

3 been shot at from a different direction. There was an

4 Army observation point situated on the city walls above

5 them and I assumed that they were being fired on from

6 there.

7 "29. On 1st February 1972 I made a statement

8 at St. Eugene's Girl's Primary School [he gives details

9 about all that]. The statement that I made contains a

10 number of details which I cannot now remember.

11 However, I believe that the statement, which was made

12 very shortly after Bloody Sunday, is an accurate

13 account of what I saw."

14 If we go to that statement, it will be,

15 I hope, at AT15.20. If we could have the bottom half

16 of the page, in the penultimate paragraph he says this:

17 "Meanwhile, as this was going on [that is the

18 events relating to Father Daly], the rest of the crowd

19 had run round to the shops on the ground floor of the

20 flats. Within seconds they had to flee as more

21 Paratroopers appeared from Glenfada Park. Most of the

22 youths ran behind the maisonettes through a small

23 alleyway. Again they were fired upon by the troops in

24 the observation post on the Derry walls. As the last

25 three youths entered the alleyway the first two fell


Page 27


1 with shots in the legs but crawled on in. The last one

2 was crawling in and a shot rang out and he fell. He

3 lay still but there was no sign of a wound. A man of

4 between 40 or 50, slightly bald, crawled out and asked

5 for his hand. There was no response so he pulled him

6 in by the head, but he had to retreat into the alleyway

7 as more shots rang out. Some other men came out to try

8 and see where he was wounded, but they too had to

9 retreat. After the shooting ended the men carried him

10 down to the ambulance. He was dead."

11 That is an account of two youths falling with

12 shots in the leg, but managing to crawl on into the

13 alleyway; and the last one was crawling in and a shot

14 rang out and he fell, and he is the man who ends up

15 dead. So this account at the time also referred to two

16 youths falling with shots in their legs. It also

17 referred to fire by troops in the observation post,

18 contrary to what appears to be the content of his

19 statement to this Tribunal as to firing from the west.

20 If we go back to AT15.5, what he says about

21 that in paragraph 30, the third line:

22 "The points in my earlier statement which

23 I cannot remember are as follows: I do not remember

24 seeing two youths fall as mentioned in the second

25 paragraph of the statement, nor do I remember seeing


Page 28


1 Paratroopers at Glenfada Park, or seeing two youths

2 being shot in the legs as mentioned in the fourth

3 paragraph of the statement. Further, I have no memory

4 of the matters referred to in the final paragraph of

5 the statement involving the ambulance and

6 Father Mulvey."

7 There are a number of other witnesses who saw

8 Patrick Doherty crawl along the ground below block 2.

9 One eyewitness to his death is Edward Dillon, whose

10 evidence is at AD45.2 and whose evidence we saw in

11 relation to Daniel McGowan. When we saw it there was a

12 paragraph that I said I would revert to and I now do so

13 because he referred in his evidence to running to the

14 alleyway behind Joseph Place where a man, whom he later

15 discovered to be Daniel McGowan, arrived behind him

16 and, as Mr Dillon was about to run off, said that he

17 had been shot. Then at paragraph 9 he said this:

18 "Just as we were about to move the wounded

19 man, I saw another man lying on the ground at about the

20 point market 5 on the attached map. He was lying on

21 his stomach with his feet towards the Fahan steps and

22 his head pointing towards Joseph Place. He called to

23 us 'Hold on -- I will assist you'. He was crawling

24 towards us. I could see his hands and he was not

25 holding anything. As he shouted he was shot. The


Page 29


1 shooting had not really stopped but I heard specific

2 shots from the direction of the city walls. He pressed

3 himself up on his hands and I could see blood on his

4 shirt. I think it was on the left-hand side of his

5 chest. He then collapsed down. He was about 20 to 25

6 feet away from the steps leading from Joseph Place to

7 Fahan Street East and about 20 feet from the corner of

8 the wall at Joseph Place where I was standing. Years

9 later, I learned that this man was Paddy Doherty. He

10 was one to two years older than me. He was wearing a

11 shirt, no tie, when I saw him."

12 If we go to paragraph 15, which is at the

13 bottom of this page, he says:

14 "I am certain that both Daniel McGowan and

15 the man lying on the ground (who I now believe to be

16 Patrick Doherty) were shot from the city walls. When

17 I was standing in the alleyway behind Joseph Place,

18 I heard the sound of shots coming from the city walls.

19 From where Daniel McGowan was standing I cannot see how

20 he could have been shot from anywhere else. I cannot

21 remember looking up to the walls. I was conscious of

22 shooting from other directions including the Rossville

23 flats."

24 That evidence provides, if accurate, an

25 useful insight as to the timing of various shootings,


Page 30


1 in this sense: Patrick Campbell appears to have been

2 shot first; I say that because Daniel McGowan saw that

3 happening. Then after Daniel McGowan, according to his

4 evidence, had tried to assist Patrick Campbell, he

5 himself was shot. Then, as this evidence shows, the

6 next person to be shot was Patrick Doherty, because

7 that is the sequence this witness, Edward Dillon,

8 describes. So that may enable us to fit the sequence

9 of events in this sector. Edward Dillon there

10 expresses the certainty that both Daniel McGowan and

11 Patrick Doherty were shot from the city walls.

12 An equally emphatic account places the shot

13 that killed Patrick Doherty as coming from the

14 Glenfada Park area. That is to be found in the

15 evidence of Donna Harkin at AH13.5. She lived in a

16 flat on the second and third floors of block 2. At

17 paragraph 33 of her statement, the bottom half of the

18 page, she says this:

19 "There was a man lying wounded below the

20 kitchen window at the approximate position marked 22 on

21 the map [that is midway between block 2 and the

22 alleyway to the east of Joseph Place]. I think he had

23 been shot. He was lying on his stomach with his head

24 facing south towards the alleyway, east of

25 Joseph Place, the entrance to which is at the point


Page 31


1 marked 23. He was an elderly man, 30 to 40 -- my

2 parents' age. I did not see any blood but could see he

3 had nothing in his hands.

4 "34. As this man was making his way south,

5 across towards Joseph Place, I was also watching a

6 group of four or five men crawl in a line from behind

7 the eastern gable end of block 2 of the Rossville flats

8 towards the alleyway east of Joseph Place. Most of

9 them reached the alleyway to the rear of Joseph Place

10 before the elderly man and they helped to pull him

11 behind Joseph Place. One man was lying behind the

12 elderly man. That man was lying on his stomach in the

13 approximate position marked 22, with his feet facing

14 towards block 2 and his head facing the entrance to the

15 alleyway. He helped the elderly man to reach safety by

16 pushing his feet. I now know that this man was Paddy

17 Doherty.

18 "35. After the elderly man had reached

19 safety and had been pulled in by the other two to three

20 men to the alleyway to the east of the Rossville flats,

21 Mr Doherty remained lying on his stomach in roughly the

22 position which I have marked on the map. He did not

23 move. All the time, the shooting continued.

24 "36. Mrs McCallion and I could not

25 understand why Mr Doherty was not moving towards the


Page 32


1 safe area to the east of Joseph Place. We shouted to

2 him from the kitchen window to move. He was only about

3 six to eight feet from Joseph Place. I could see the

4 men already sheltering in the alleyway to the east of

5 Joseph Place also shouting to him. I think that some

6 of them were shouting at him to come to them and others

7 were telling him to stay where he was. We could hear

8 screaming from the direction of Glenfada Park but

9 I kept concentrating on Paddy, despite the noise from

10 elsewhere.

11 "37. There was a tree, which was surrounded

12 by a bricked area, in the approximate position marked

13 24. I saw a bullet hit the northwest facing side of

14 the brick area. Because of the way the bricked area

15 was hit, I felt that the shooting was coming from the

16 Glenfada Park area."

17 This is, I think, a reference to the feature

18 that I was referring to a little earlier, of which a

19 different and perhaps more informative view appears at

20 photograph 323. That shows, looking from the west,

21 what I believe is the bricked area to which this

22 witness is referring. We can see the two sets of

23 stanchions and the alleyway, in this photograph there

24 is a man looking round from the corner of the

25 alleyway. We can see the tree in the middle of the


Page 33


1 bricked area. One can also see how the brickwork

2 increases in height as the surrounding land slopes, so

3 that at its west face there are four bricks' worth in

4 height of the structure in which, in this photograph,

5 two young men are taking cover beneath, or at least

6 sitting beneath.

7 What I think this witness is saying is that

8 she saw a bullet hit the facing side of the brick area,

9 that is to say the side of four bricks in height which

10 is depicted on this photograph. Mr Doherty's body

11 ended up somewhere approximately where I am pointing,

12 almost in line with the alleyway to the south.

13 If we go back to where we were, which was

14 AH13.6, at paragraph 38 she says this:

15 "After a matter of minutes, to the best of my

16 recollection, Mr Doherty lifted his right knee, which

17 was nearest to me, as though he was going to move

18 towards the alleyway to the east of Joseph Place. At

19 that moment I saw a bullet enter the bottom of his

20 right buttock. I saw the entry wound. Mr Doherty

21 jolted. His body jerked off the ground. He landed on

22 his front in the same position that he had been lying

23 with his head towards the alleyway east of Joseph Place

24 and his feet towards block 2 of the Rossville flats.

25 There was no doubt in my mind, because of the angle at


Page 34


1 which the bullet entered Mr Doherty, that he had been

2 shot from the Glenfada Park area. I did not see any

3 blood or any wound apart from the entry wound.

4 However, I could see the colour draining from his

5 face."

6 The Tribunal will recall that the medical

7 evidence shows Mr Doherty was shot in the right buttock

8 and that the bullet exited his left chest, which is

9 where one of the previous witnesses said that he saw

10 blood, and that he was probably in a kneeling position

11 at the time that he was shot -- rather he was bending

12 forward or on all fours at the time that he was shot.

13 Mrs Harkin says the following:

14 "I went hysterical. I had a rosary in my

15 hands and I tried to climb out of the kitchen window on

16 to the canopy to get down to the ground to help

17 Mr Doherty. I got my leg out of the window, but

18 Mrs McCallion pulled me back in. I could hear

19 Mr Doherty calling out saying that he did not want to

20 be alone and that he needed help. Mrs McCallion was

21 trying to calm me by saying he had only fainted.

22 "40. I could see a balding man who was

23 probably in his 40s trying to reach Mr Doherty. He was

24 crawling out on his stomach north from the opening of

25 the alleyway to the east of Joseph Place. Although for


Page 35


1 five minutes he tried to reach Mr Doherty, he could not

2 make it because of the continuous shooting from the

3 Glenfada Park area. I now know that man was Mr Patrick

4 Walsh.

5 "41. After about five minutes the shooting

6 stopped. Mr Walsh eventually reached Mr Doherty and

7 turned him on to his back. I have been shown the

8 photograph, which is attached and numbered 3, which

9 shows the scene that I witnessed after Mr Walsh, who is

10 shown, turned Mr Doherty on his back."

11 That photograph is at AH13.11. That is the

12 photograph she is identifying, which is described in

13 the evidence as at a time after Mr Doherty had been

14 turned on his back by Mr Walsh. It is of course

15 obvious from the photograph that he was on his back,

16 but this photograph is a series of photographs, as we

17 have already seen this morning and yesterday, of

18 Mr Walsh approaching Mr Doherty. So unless, which is

19 not impossible, he went out twice, he cannot have,

20 I think, turned Mr Doherty over before this photograph.

21 We go back to AH13.7, at paragraph 42, she

22 says:

23 "It was obvious that Mr Doherty was dead.

24 I wanted to go home. I ran up the stairs of the flat,

25 walked out of the front door onto the balcony, turned


Page 36


1 left and walked west along the balcony towards my

2 house. I looked north out across the courtyard, which

3 seemed to be deserted apart from the two Saracens still

4 parked at the end of Chamberlain Street with just the

5 two soldiers standing by them. As I walked along the

6 balcony I kept my hands on my head so that the soldiers

7 could see that I was not armed. I was very unsteady on

8 my feet. I was so scared my knees were buckling. The

9 soldiers were still in the courtyard and at the end of

10 Chamberlain Street and were still in full view, taking

11 no cover."

12 As we have seen, the man who went to the

13 assistance of Patrick Doherty, or one of the men who

14 went to the assistance of Patrick Doherty, and the one

15 who appears in the photographs, was Patrick Walsh. His

16 account does not say that he turned Patrick Doherty

17 over on to his back, or that he approached him twice.

18 We can find it at AW5.2, where there is to be found his

19 statement to this Tribunal, the bottom half of the

20 page, paragraph 12, where he says this:

21 "At some stage during the commotion when

22 I was getting away [this is in the car park of the

23 Rossville flats] a smaller fellow than me was also

24 trying to get away, but he was panicking. I pulled him

25 down to the ground and lay on top of him so that he


Page 37


1 could not move. It could be that this is shown in

2 photographs A and B attached to my statement."

3 Photograph A is at AW5.5. It is a copy of

4 EP25.8, and not a very good one. Perhaps if we could

5 have EP25.8 it would be easier. The person who looks

6 to be Mr Walsh is there in EP25.8, the man second from

7 the right. If we go to EP25.7, he appears to be the

8 man on the right-hand corner. If we go back to where

9 we were at AW5.2, paragraph 12, the fourth line shall

10 he said:

11 "There was shooting going on at the time.

12 I can remember lying on top of this man, but cannot

13 remember where. I think someone then shouted 'They

14 have stopped', so I let the man go and he ran away.

15 Then the crowd behind me started running again so I got

16 up to run. I was running with the crowd, probably

17 through the alleyway of blocks 2 and 3 and towards a

18 wall to find shelter. I cannot remember passing anyone

19 who was crawling, but I only had one intention, to

20 reach cover. All of a sudden I remember hearing a

21 thud. It was like the sound of someone falling. I did

22 not know whether someone had fainted. I did not hear a

23 shot. I stopped and turned around to go and help the

24 man. Fellows were passing me shouting, 'They are

25 shooting at us, they are shooting at us, get out'.


Page 38


1 I went to the body to try to do something for him.

2 I did not care what was going on around me. I have no

3 idea where I was, but I remember creeping out towards

4 the body. As I was crawling out a lady shouted to me,

5 probably from the Rossville flats, 'Paddy, get down'.

6 The lady must have known me. I stopped crawling and

7 put my head down for a moment. The photographs of me

8 crawling out to the body are shown in the sequence

9 attached to this statement as photographs C to F [they

10 are the Peress series of photographs]. I was the first

11 person to go out to him.

12 "13. I continued to crawl out towards the

13 body. I remember seeing his feet. His head was

14 pointed towards the direction of the telephone box in

15 front of the Rossville flats. I did not see the

16 telephone box that day, only his shoes. He was lying

17 on his back, face up. I think he was wearing a donkey

18 jacket. I did not know the man.

19 "14. I reached the body and began to search

20 him. I wanted to find if there was anything on him

21 that would tell me who he was. There was not

22 anything. I put my hand to his head and lifted him.

23 I could not tell whether he was dead when I lifted him,

24 but he did not move. He did not speak to me. I could

25 not see if his eyes were open. I thought that he was


Page 39


1 dying. I remember thinking 'If he moves maybe he is

2 not dead' but he did not move. I would say that he was

3 dead by the time I reached him.

4 "15. I also searched him looking for weapons

5 because I thought that he must be armed or why else

6 would he have been shot. I did not find any. Indeed,

7 I do not remember finding anything on him, but a few

8 years later someone told me, perhaps his sister-in-law

9 or his wife, that he had his wage packet on him.

10 I also looked for a rosary on him but there was

11 nothing. I could not even see a wound or any blood.

12 I searched every pocket. I was thinking to myself 'Why

13 has he been shot? It could have been me.' I lifted his

14 head to say a prayer to him. I did not have my rosary

15 on me that day. It was in my works clothes and I

16 remember being angry about that. I said a prayer over

17 his body. As I was lying there with him I heard the

18 whoosh of bullets going over my head, but I did not

19 realise they were bullets at the time. I did not see

20 any other injured people whilst I was down. I was just

21 concentrating on the one man and I was oblivious to all

22 else.

23 "16 I did not hear him say 'Do not let me die

24 on my own.' I did not hear him say anything.

25 "17. After a while people started coming out


Page 40


1 and I remember someone saying that the body I was with

2 was Paddy Doherty. That man was taken away crying.

3 That is when I knew who it was.

4 "18. I do not remember what I did after

5 that, but I think that I must have got up and walked

6 towards another body lying in front of block 2 ...

7 I later learnt that it was the body of Barney

8 McGuigan. I wonder now whether he was hit by one of

9 the bullets that I heard whoosh past my head whilst

10 I was on the ground. My memory of this is poor and my

11 memory of the body may be of having seen photographs

12 subsequently, though I do not think so.

13 "19. Some other men and me carried Paddy

14 Doherty's body to an ambulance which was not very far

15 away. I cannot remember seeing a wound on him even as

16 we carried him to the ambulance. After Bloody Sunday

17 I heard that Paddy Doherty was shot in the buttock, but

18 at the time I had no idea where he was shot. I think

19 I may have helped carry two other bodies to an

20 ambulance too. I have a vague memory of this."

21 As is apparent from that account, Mr Walsh

22 reckons that he was the first person to go out to him.

23 His account does not refer to anybody else going out to

24 him and also refers to the fact that when he went out

25 to him, as the photographs show, Patrick Doherty was


Page 41


1 lying on his back. It is unclear how Patrick Doherty

2 came to be lying on his back, assuming, as for the

3 moment I do because a substantial body of evidence

4 indicates it, that he fell upon his face, as would be

5 consistent with somebody who was shot in the behind

6 when he had previously been crawling on all fours.

7 Nor does the statement indicate precisely

8 where the bullets which whooshed over his head were

9 thought to be coming from. There is a witness, John

10 Martin Campbell, whose evidence is at AC14 at page 4,

11 where he says this:

12 "18. We got to the gap between blocks 2 and

13 3 and hurried south through it. When we got through

14 the gap there were two men lying at an angle with each

15 other. Their heads were nearest together. I was at

16 point L and the two men were at point M. The position

17 where the bodies were lying is marked with arrows at

18 point M on the map. The arrows represent the heads of

19 the bodies. I have since learnt that the man marked N

20 was Paddy Walsh and the man marked P was Paddy

21 Doherty. Paddy Doherty was lying on his tummy and

22 I could only see his feet. He was not doing anything.

23 I did not think at the time he was dead but looking

24 back now I do not know whether he was dead or not.

25 Paddy Walsh was lying with his head facing towards us.


Page 42


1 He was the older of the two men. He had a bald head

2 and was in his late fifties."

3 Then he identifies two photographs, the

4 second of which shows them in the position that he saw

5 them. That is one of the Peress photographs:

6 "Paddy Walsh shouted to us that there was

7 shooting coming from the city walls. He shouted to us

8 to get down so we all got down to the ground between

9 blocks 2 and 3. We lay there for possibly five or ten

10 minutes and I did not move because there was shooting

11 going over our heads. The shooting was definitely Army

12 fire. At the time I had no idea where the shooting was

13 coming from, but with hindsight I think the shooting

14 must have come from the city walls. I now think that

15 the shooting must have been coming from the city walls

16 because I knew it was Army fire and the Army were not

17 in the area where I was.

18 Pausing there, if, as the medical evidence

19 shows, Patrick Doherty was shot in the right buttock at

20 the spot which is indicated by the photograph, very

21 nearly in line with the alleyway at the back of

22 Joseph Place and between block 2 and the Joseph Place

23 gardens rear wall, it seems, one might think,

24 impossible for him to have been shot from the city

25 walls.


Page 43


1 There is evidence that we saw yesterday, in

2 the statement of Peter McLaughlin, to a man who came

3 out to Paddy Doherty coming out and having to retreat,

4 having turned the body over on to its back the first

5 time when that person came out. There is not

6 dissimilar evidence from William Harley whose

7 statement, for these purposes, may be found at AH36.4.

8 He was looking through his living room window at the

9 top of block 2. At paragraph 20, he says:

10 "When I looked out of my living room window

11 I saw a second body lying between block 2 of the

12 Rossville flats and Joseph Place at point G on the

13 attached map. He was lying near a low wall which ran

14 along the backyards of the maisonettes in

15 Joseph Place.

16 "21. The body was face down with the head

17 pointing towards the steps and the feet pointing

18 towards the northwestern corner of block 2 of the

19 Rossville flats. The body had a car coat at about

20 thigh length which I think was grey coloured.

21 I watched as a man came out of the alleyway behind the

22 maisonettes in Joseph Place and shuffle towards the

23 body. My recollection is that the man went to the head

24 of the body on the side nearest the alleyway, almost in

25 line with the alleyway from which he had come. When he


Page 44


1 reached point H he was fired on. I saw the bullets hit

2 the ground to the west of the body. I am certain they

3 came from the city walls, the top edge of which I could

4 see from the window. I had seen shots fired from the

5 walls on many occasions and was able to recognise when

6 they came from there by the direction in which the dust

7 flew when the bullets hit the ground. There is no

8 question that in the scene I have related the shots

9 came from the walls. I think there were four or five

10 shots. The man turned and flung himself back into the

11 alleyway behind Joseph Place from where he had come.

12 "22. I did not see the man turn the body

13 over to face upwards, but I know he turned it over

14 because my friend, Paddy McCrudden, who was watching

15 out of the same living room window, said to me 'Holy

16 Jesus it is the skelper'. 'Skelper' was a nickname

17 given to a part of the Doherty clan which comprised

18 about four or five families. The body was Paddy

19 Doherty who was a pipe fitter's mate at Dupont, which

20 is where Paddy McCrudden knew him from. From where

21 I was the body looked dead. It was the colour of dirty

22 wax though I cannot recall any blood around the body.

23 "23. From where I was standing in the living

24 room looking out I could see a group of people

25 sheltering in the alleyway behind Joseph Place and


Page 45


1 I watched as the same man came out a second time toward

2 the body at point G. This time he was crawling. He

3 was at right angles to the body at point G and he tried

4 to give the body the kiss of life. I recognised the

5 man's face and think he is called Paddy. He had a

6 round face with a sallow, warthy complexion and was

7 going bald. He was doing the most unselfish action

8 I think I have ever seen. I had the greatest

9 admiration and respect for him and I was terrified that

10 he would be shot. I believe that the sequence of

11 photographs depicting the scene I have described, which

12 were shown to me at this interview and which are

13 attached to this statement, were taken the second time

14 the man came out from the alley, as the first time he

15 ventured out he was driven back by the gunfire.

16 "24. I stopped watching because one of the

17 children who was sheltering in my flat said 'I think

18 there are more dead over there.'"

19 It is possible in the light of that evidence

20 that Mr Walsh in fact went out twice -- on the first

21 occasion he turned Patrick Doherty round and then went

22 out on a second occasion -- for it seems highly likely

23 that the description in paragraph 23 is of Patrick

24 Walsh; both the Christian name and the description of

25 the facial features tally, and this witness says that


Page 46


1 he is referring to the same man going out on both

2 occasions.

3 Another witness is called Frank McCarron. At

4 AM82.4, in his statement he refers in paragraph 23 to

5 stopping at the point marked D on the attached map:

6 "The point marked D on the attached map is

7 the gap between blocks 2 and 3 at the south side of the

8 entrance to the stairs in block 2. This stairway hid

9 us from the Rossville flats car park. I do not think

10 we were there for long, but there was no shooting while

11 we were there. While we were there I also saw a body

12 almost directly in front of us to the south. I do not

13 recall what gave me the impression, but I had the idea

14 that he had been shot from the direction of the steps

15 leading from Fahan Street East towards Joseph Place.

16 I also thought that he had been shot by a ricocheting

17 bullet because as we moved out towards the body (there

18 was no shooting at this time) I saw that there was no

19 blood anywhere. In fact the body was lying on his back

20 approximately at the point marked E on the attached

21 map. [E is at the very entrance to the Joseph Place

22 alleyway]. He had his hands in his trouser pockets.

23 His head was towards Joseph Place and his feet towards

24 block 2 of the Rossville flats. I do not recall seeing

25 any other bodies in that area at the time. I refer to


Page 47


1 the copy photographs at appendices 6 to 10 inclusive

2 [those are the Patrick Walsh/Patrick Doherty

3 photographs]. The copy photograph at appendix 6 is,

4 I think, taken in the car park of the flats.

5 I can go to paragraph 24:

6 "24. I refer to the copy photographs at

7 appendices 5 to 8. I think that these show Patrick

8 Doherty in the approximate position in which we found

9 him ...

10 "25. My impression of Patrick Doherty was

11 that he was already dead. However, one of the people

12 I was with said that we could not be too sure. I think

13 that this person may have tried to give Patrick Doherty

14 some form of resuscitation. We then tried to pull him

15 into the alleyway at the back of Joseph Place where we

16 had intended to go. He was wearing a black coat which

17 came to his thighs. I think that we were trying to

18 pull him by at least one of the shoulders of his

19 jacket. We thought that we would get lifted by the

20 soldiers if we stayed in the Rossville flats area.

21 "26. As we were trying to pull him along the

22 shooting started again. The shooting was coming from

23 the Derry walls. We ran to a low wall which ran

24 between Joseph Place and the walls. I distinctly

25 remember going along on my hunkers to get away because


Page 48


1 of the shooting from the Derry walls. There seemed to

2 be a lot of shooting and I did not lift my head the

3 whole way along the length of this wall, which ran

4 almost along the length of the two blocks of

5 Joseph Place. We moved along pretty steadily on our

6 hunkers and I would think that it took five or so

7 minutes to get to the south end of the wall. Our route

8 is shown by arrows on the attached map [which is at

9 AM82.8]."

10 His route generally is described by the

11 arrows. He is describing seeing what appears to be

12 Patrick Doherty at E and, having tried to pull him back

13 into the alleyway, running along that alleyway in the

14 direction shown by the arrows. There are in fact a

15 series of photographs that show the position after

16 Mr Walsh had gone to Patrick Doherty.

17 If we have P720, that is the photograph we

18 looked at before, which places Mr Doherty almost in

19 line with the alleyway. Next, 721, we can see a number

20 of people have gathered round Patrick Doherty. By 722

21 a Knight of Malta man is standing on the left. By 723

22 we can see the arrival at the scene of a man called

23 Francis Duddy, who is the young man with glasses in

24 this photograph; and at 724. At 725 we can see that

25 Mr Doherty was taken from the scene. One can see a


Page 49


1 good picture behind of the wall which various witnesses

2 say shots were fired and bullet holes were subsequently

3 seen. Then Mr Doherty was subsequently, as appears

4 from 726, placed in an ambulance.

5 Francis Duddy in his statement to this

6 Tribunal, which we need not turn up, says that Patrick

7 Doherty's clothes were not dirty as though he had

8 dragged himself along the ground. He formed the view

9 that Patrick Doherty had been shot where he lay. This

10 may be doubtful in the sense that a number of witnesses

11 saw him crawling below block 2 and the pictures show

12 him crawling along the car park wall at the southeast

13 of the car park. Mr Duddy searched Patrick Doherty's

14 pockets and found, he said, some rubber bullets and a

15 card with Mr Doherty's name on it.

16 There is no evidence that Patrick Doherty had

17 any form of firearm or other weapon with or upon him,

18 and there is positive evidence that he did not in the

19 form of the photographs and the testimony of a number

20 of the witnesses.

21 There are some accounts which are difficult

22 to square with some of the photographic and other

23 evidence. One of those is the evidence of

24 Jean Marie McGeehan, who did not give evidence to

25 Widgery and was 12 years old at the time. Her evidence


Page 50


1 appears at AM228.3. She also was in a flat in block 2

2 at the eastern end. At paragraph 14, as she looked out

3 of the living room, she saw down to the paved area in

4 between block 2 of the flats and Joseph Place:

5 "Because of the angle I was looking down at

6 I could only see clearly about five feet out from the

7 wall of block 2. I remember three men in particular.

8 "15. The first man I saw was heading from

9 block 2 of the Rossville flats towards the alleyway at

10 the back of Joseph Place. The route he took is shown

11 marked on the attached map. I saw him as I looked to

12 the right towards Rossville Street. I saw him fall.

13 I do not know whether he was shot or whether he just

14 stumbled but he got up quickly and was helped to the

15 alleyway by people who were taking cover there. This

16 was a few minutes after I had arrived at the front of

17 the flats. I cannot remember what he looked like at

18 all ...

19 "16. The second man I saw was running from

20 directly below the window I was looking out of towards

21 the alleyway at the back of Joseph Place. The route he

22 took is also shown marked on the attach map. He seemed

23 to crumple and fall down to the ground as though one of

24 his legs had gone from under him. He got up by

25 himself, there was no one around to help him. He


Page 51


1 continued towards the alleyway as quickly as he could.

2 He was in a bent over position although he was not on

3 his hands and knees. I got the impression from the way

4 he was staggering that he was in pain. I assumed that

5 he had been shot in the leg, but I do not know which

6 leg it was. Just as he got to the alleyway someone

7 helped him to get behind Joseph Place. I cannot now

8 recall any detail about the appearance of the man. At

9 that time there was a lot going on in the flat. I was

10 being told to keep away from the window and keep my

11 head down. I kept looking out every now and again.

12 I think I stayed in the living room and did not go back

13 to the bedroom."

14 Pausing there, there is another account of

15 two men appearing to stumble or to be shot in the legs:

16 "17. I saw the third man just as the second

17 man got to the alleyway at Joseph Place. He was

18 crawling on his belly from the gap between blocks 2 and

19 3 of the Rossville flats towards the alleyway at the

20 back of Joseph Place. He was nearly flat on the ground

21 and was using his arms in front of him to drag himself

22 along. His arms were not straight out in front of him

23 but were bent. He was moving slowly towards the

24 alleyway. When I saw him I assumed that he was

25 dragging himself that way because he had seen what


Page 52


1 happened to the second man. I cannot remember thinking

2 that he was hurt or injured.

3 "18. The man got to about the point marked G

4 on the attached map when he suddenly stopped. He was

5 about halfway between block 2 and the alleyway.

6 I thought that he had stopped because he was afraid of

7 the gunfire. The gunfire I had first heard when I was

8 in the bedroom overlooking the Rossville flats' car

9 park was still going on when I saw this third man.

10 I think by this time there was still a fair amount of

11 shooting but it seemed to be more single shots than

12 rapid continuous fire. I could not say which direction

13 the shooting came from because of the echo. I assumed

14 that it was from Rossville Street from where the Army

15 vehicles were.

16 "19. I carried on watching the man for a

17 short time because he was so still. I was worried that

18 he might get shot. I do not know how long I watched

19 him. As I watched him, the colour seemed to drain from

20 his face. He was lying diagonally with his feet

21 towards the gap between blocks 2 and 3 and his head

22 towards the alleyway at Joseph Place. He was lying on

23 his front with his legs behind him and his arms bent in

24 front of him in the position he had been when he was

25 dragging himself along. His face was turned towards


Page 53


1 Rossville Street.

2 "20. I then saw another man appear from the

3 back of the alleyway behind Joseph Place and start

4 moving very slowly towards the man lying on the ground

5 at point E. This man was on his hands and knees

6 crawling very slowly. My uncle opened the window and

7 shouted out to him to be careful and watch himself

8 because there was shooting. As he crawled along he was

9 looking all around him but not really looking in any

10 one particular direction. He kept stopping and

11 starting and it took him quite a while to reach the man

12 lying at point B. By the time he reached him I think

13 the gunfire had stopped:

14 "21. He turned the man over. I do not know

15 whether he intended to turn him over or whether he went

16 to take his pulse and turned him over as he was

17 examining him, but he did end up lying face up. I do

18 not have any recollection of what either man looked

19 like apart from the fact that I think the one who had

20 been shot was an oldish man, but I was only 12 years

21 old at the time. I definitely think he was older than

22 the first two men I had seen.

23 "22. The next thing I remember is seeing a

24 man walk out from the gaps between blocks 2 and 3 of

25 the Rossville flats towards where the two men were.


Page 54


1 This man had a camera around his neck which he held in

2 his left-hand. He held a white hanky in his other

3 hand. He faced toward Rossville Street, waving the

4 hanky and holding the camera up as though the Army

5 would know he was a photographer and not to shoot.

6 I did not hear him say anything. By that time the

7 shooting had stopped."

8 That sounds very much like Mr Peress:

9 "23. I also remember seeing a man in a grey

10 uniform come out from the alleyway behind Joseph Place

11 and go towards the man who had been shot. I assumed

12 that he was a Red Cross man as he was wearing a light

13 grey uniform. [that looks very like the man whose

14 photograph we have just seen in the group surrounding

15 Mr Doherty]."

16 So on that account somebody, who sounds like

17 Mr Walsh, comes out on one occasion and turns the body

18 round and then Mr Peress, or what sounds like

19 Mr Peress, and at any rate a photographer, appears.

20 Lastly in the civilian evidence on this

21 point, it is desirable to look at the statement of

22 Edmund Melaugh at 398.11. His account begins at

23 paragraph 19. I pick it up at a stage where he says:

24 "19. I stayed at the south gable end of

25 block 1 for shelter. I could see a hexagonal brick


Page 55


1 built flowerbed just ahead of me. It was about two

2 feet high. I could see chunks of brick coming out of

3 it as it was hit by bullets. I thought that the shots

4 were being fired from behind me, from further north up

5 Rossville Street, because the bricks were being hit on

6 the side of the flowerbed which was facing north

7 towards Rossville Street.

8 "20. Then, from where I was standing at the

9 south end gable of block 1, I could see soldiers

10 advancing into the Glenfada Park North courtyard.

11 There were not many, maybe four or five. They all had

12 rifles and were shooting across the Glenfada Park North

13 courtyard in the direction of Glenfada Park South.

14 I then saw one soldier drop and kneel near to the

15 centre of the Glenfada Park North courtyard (at point

16 J) and start shooting towards the hexagonal flowerbed

17 and the south gable end of block 1, where we were

18 standing.

19 "21. When that happened, I took to my

20 heels. I ran to my left along the side of block 2 of

21 the Rossville flats in a southwest direction. I was

22 running right up against the side of the building. As

23 I ran along the back of block 2, I was running past the

24 shops which were on the ground level of block 2."

25 If he was doing that he cannot have been


Page 56


1 running in a southwest direction. It must have been

2 east or at best southeast:

3 "I think I ran past a fruit and vegetable

4 shop, a sweet shop, and there was a Chinese restaurant

5 towards the southwest end of block 2 [it must be

6 southeast].

7 "22. When I got almost to the end of block 2

8 I ran south across to the back of Joseph Place. As

9 I was running I did not look behind me. There was

10 still shooting and I assumed it was coming from

11 Glenfada Park North.

12 "23. I entered the alleyway behind

13 Joseph Place. The outer wall forming the alleyway was

14 not level. The northwest end (where I entered the

15 alleyway) was only knee high. The wall increased in

16 height the further away it was from block 2 of the

17 Rossville flats. When I entered the alleyway I saw

18 people running ahead of me and there were people hiding

19 all along the alleyway. I could see that there were

20 lots of people in the gap between the two blocks of

21 Joseph Place.

22 "24. I went along the alleyway as far as

23 point L. I stopped briefly here. I remember hearing

24 someone say that there was shooting coming from the

25 city walls. I could still hear the crack of shots


Page 57


1 being fired, but I could not tell from which direction

2 they were coming.

3 "25. I heard someone behind me call out

4 'I am shot'. I looked round and saw two people at the

5 entrance to the Joseph Place alleyway. They were both

6 wounded. At the time, I assumed that they had been

7 behind me, running towards the Joseph Place alleyway,

8 when they were shot. I thought that the shots would

9 have come from the soldiers in Glenfada Park North.

10 "26. I and another man -- I do not know who

11 he was -- went back to the entrance to the alleyway.

12 We were crouching down behind the low wall of the

13 alleyway and we leaned out and dragged the two wounded

14 men in, one at a time. I cannot remember what the two

15 men were wearing ... casual wear rather than suits.

16 I think that one was in his thirties and the other was

17 in his fifties. I remember that one was shot in the

18 ankle [I do not know who that is]. At the time,

19 I assumed that they had been shot by the soldiers

20 shooting across towards Joseph Place from Glenfada Park

21 North. I did not see either of the men actually being

22 shot.

23 "27. The other man and I dragged the two

24 wounded men about halfway down the alleyway before

25 other people took them from us. I do not know where


Page 58


1 the two wounded men were taken by the other people in

2 the alleyway.

3 "28. As I was dragging one of the wounded

4 men to safety, I saw another man in his early 30s

5 crawling on the ground at point M. I now know that

6 this man was Paddy Doherty."

7 If we go to AM398.18, we will find the map.

8 He had entered the alleyway at its mouth, at K. He had

9 gone down to L. He had gone back to K and he then

10 sees, after seeing two wounded men, somebody at point

11 M. Going back to where we were, paragraph 29:

12 "The other man and I went back to the

13 entrance to the alleyway opposite block 2 of the

14 Rossville flats at point K. Paddy Doherty called out

15 that he had been shot. He was crawling and calling for

16 someone to come and help him. The other man and I were

17 crouched down in the shelter of the low wall at the

18 northwest end of the alleyway. We could not go out as

19 the shooting was continuing and we thought that we

20 would be shot if we left the cover of the wall. I and

21 the other man told Paddy Doherty to lie still and not

22 move. We thought that he would make himself a target

23 to be shot again if he kept crawling. I remember that

24 he was crawling facing towards the alleyway where we

25 were, with his feet nearest to block 2 of the Rossville


Page 59


1 flats. He was much further away from the Joseph Place

2 alleyway than the other two wounded men had been. At

3 the time I assumed that he had been shot some time

4 while he was making his way through the gap between

5 block 2 and block 3 of the Rossville flats towards the

6 Joseph Place alleyway. I did not see Paddy Doherty

7 come out of the gap between block 2 and block 3.

8 I only saw him when he was crawling on the ground. I

9 did not see him actually being shot. When I first saw

10 him I gained the impression that he was crawling to

11 avoid the shooting.

12 "30. While I was crouched down in the

13 Joseph Place alleyway watching Paddy Doherty, I can

14 remember seeing a woman in a second or third floor

15 window on the southwest side of a flat in block 2. She

16 was shouting at the other man and me. I think that she

17 was warning us to keep down because of the shooting.

18 Some time after we first heard Paddy Doherty cry out

19 that he had been shot, the shooting started to die

20 down. The odd shots were still being fired. I do not

21 know which direction they were coming from. If there

22 was shooting from the city walls, then the woman in

23 block 2 may have been warning us about that.

24 "32. When the shooting finally died down,

25 the other man and I went out to help Paddy Doherty. He


Page 60


1 did not appear to be dead at that stage. There was a

2 man wearing a grey uniform running around and looking

3 at people who had been wounded. I think that he was

4 either a Knight of Malta or a St John's Ambulance man.

5 He came over to check on Paddy Doherty. I remember

6 that Paddy Doherty was lying on his stomach. The first

7 aider rolled him over and pulled up his shirt.

8 I remember that there was a hole in his side and there

9 was blood all over that side of his body. I cannot

10 remember which side of his body had been shot. I do

11 remember that he was not a tall man and that when his

12 shirt was pulled up I could see that he was a little

13 hairy and very white. He was in his early 30s. Some

14 other people gathered around and helped carry him into

15 the first house at the northern-most end of

16 Joseph Place. I cannot remember if I helped to carry

17 him, although I do recall standing in the doorway of

18 the house he was carried into."

19 There are difficulties with this account.

20 The reference to Patrick Doherty being on his face and

21 then turned over to be on his back at a late stage of

22 the action is inconsistent with the photographs that we

23 have seen.

24 Secondly, Patrick Doherty was not taken into

25 a house in Joseph Place. He was taken to the ambulance


Page 61


1 from the spot where he lay, as appears in the

2 photograph that we saw but a moment ago. The evidence

3 in question, including the reference to this witness

4 going out to help Paddy Doherty, unless he is the other

5 man referred to, does not allow for the presence of

6 Patrick Walsh who we can see in the photographs.

7 Though it may simply be that Mr Melaugh who, on any

8 view, went some way down the alleyway at the back of

9 Joseph Place, came back on the scene at a later stage

10 and was one of those who, at that stage, undoubtedly

11 did go to see if they could assist Patrick Doherty.

12 There is evidence, which we saw before in

13 another connection but could usefully see now in this,

14 of Soldier 227 who was looking from the Charlie

15 observation post on the walls and saw an apparently

16 wounded man propelling himself by his arms on his

17 front. If we look at Day 16, page 44, he was asked

18 this at E, the bottom half of the page:

19 "Question: Did you see a man who had

20 apparently been wounded moving along somewhere else?

21 Answer: Yes, sir, I ... in between

22 St Joseph's Place and the low wall on my side of the

23 block.

24 Question: Was he moving from St Joseph's

25 Place to the wall or the other way?


Page 62


1 Answer: He was moving behind the wall behind

2 the Rossville flats ... He was propelling himself by

3 using his arms ... on his front.

4 Question: Could you see whether he was

5 wounded or not?

6 Answer: No, I could not actually see.

7 Question: Did you look at him through the

8 telescope sight?

9 Answer: Yes.

10 Question: Did you see on him at that time

11 any firearms?

12 Answer: No, I did not."

13 Then if you go to Day 16, page 50, he was

14 asked by Mr Preston, one of the counsel to the

15 Tribunal, this:

16 "Question: I just want to ask you about the

17 man that appeared into your line of sight crawling

18 along on his stomach. Did he appear from the dead

19 ground in front of you?

20 Answer: My line of sight went from Rossville

21 flats down to St Joseph's Place and I saw the man

22 behind the wall crawling towards the Rossville flats.

23 Question: Did he appear, so far as your view

24 of him took you, from behind the wall into your view?

25 Answer: He came from my left going to my


Page 63


1 right, sir.

2 Question: Did you gain the impression that

3 he was wounded?

4 Answer: Yes, sir, I did."

5 That evidence might relate to Patrick

6 Doherty, but the evidence of somebody crawling towards

7 the Rossville flats is, if it refers to Doherty,

8 somebody crawling in the wrong direction. Also he was

9 asked to look at EP25.12. At the bottom at D, if we

10 can have the second half of what appears on the page,

11 he was asked this:

12 "Question: The man on the left in that

13 photograph, is he the man you saw crawl into your view?

14 Answer: No, sir ... I could not positively

15 identify him as the person that crawled into my view,

16 sir."

17 EP25.12 is the photograph that he was being

18 referred to. The man on the left is Patrick Doherty.

19 He was being asked if he could positively identify him,

20 and he said "no".

21 Soldier 227 has made to statement to this

22 Tribunal which appears at bundle B2204.006. Can

23 somebody note that that is missing. I can summarise

24 the significance of what he says in that. He repeats

25 the fact that he saw somebody going from left to right


Page 64


1 towards the Rossville flats. In paragraph 28 he says:

2 "My attention was drawn to a man who seemed

3 to be dragging himself along by his arms on the east

4 side of Joseph Place. He was going from my left to my

5 right towards the Rossville flats ... I could see no

6 obvious wound or reason why he should be dragging

7 himself along rather than walking or crawling. I could

8 not see any weapons on him although I would not

9 necessarily have been able to see a handgun. However

10 I continued to follow his progress as I felt that if he

11 got to the north end of Joseph Place he would move out

12 of the line of vision into dead ground and would then

13 be in a position to shoot at the Paras I had seen in

14 Glenfada Park North."

15 I am afraid I do not follow that because, if

16 he was moving from left to right towards the Rossville

17 flats, his progress would not take him to the north end

18 of Joseph Place. He then goes on to say:

19 "Before the man made it to the northern end

20 of Joseph Place, a group of people appeared around him

21 and helped him to walk back the way he had come, away

22 from the Rossville flats, south towards Fahan Street

23 and Free Derry Corner."

24 Can I have the map Q8? What I think in fact

25 his evidence amounts to is that he is on the


Page 65


1 observation post here and he is seeing somebody crawl

2 in this direction, on the east side of Joseph Place.

3 So that it is not crawling from the north side of

4 Joseph Place to block 2 -- as would be indicated by the

5 arrow that I am putting on the screen now -- but it is

6 crawling from the east of Joseph Place towards the

7 north of Joseph Place and then, before he gets to the

8 north, he is pulled back the way that he had come. So

9 whoever else this may be, it seems pretty clear that it

10 is not Patrick Doherty.

11 LORD SAVILLE: This witness also mentions

12 dead ground, by which I understand ground he could not

13 see because it was obscured by other ground. Do we

14 know -- looking from the city walls -- what, if any,

15 dead ground there was in the area where Patrick Doherty

16 appears to have been shot, or where at least

17 Mr Peress's photographs show him lying on the ground?

18 I do not want to take you out of your present

19 course, but it may just be from the virtual reality

20 photographs or from the virtual reality computer makeup

21 that one can get a view from at least part of the city

22 walls to see what, if anything, you can see in that

23 area.

24 MR CLARKE: We can certainly try.

25 LORD SAVILLE: I was not suggesting it now,


Page 66


1 Mr Clarke, but it might be worth exploring that.

2 MR CLARKE: We will look at it later,

3 particularly when we have his statement so we can see

4 the entirety of it on the screen and not bits of it.

5 It looks pretty clearly as if he is not actually

6 referring to Patrick Doherty at all, though who he is

7 referring to is quite unclear.

8 Lastly I should refer back to the evidence of

9 Gunner 030, to which I have already referred in the

10 context of Sector 4. He was one of the people who was

11 on the platform. It will be recalled that he told

12 Lord Widgery that he saw a soldier in the middle of the

13 south end of Glenfada Park North turn and fire in his

14 direction, but below him. Then he saw a body lying by

15 what was described as the "first tree" in number 2 of

16 the Rossville flats; that looks as if it is one of the

17 trees below block 2 of the flats in approximately the

18 position where Patrick Doherty lay. But in his

19 evidence to this Inquiry he has given a very different

20 account, in which he says he did not see any soldiers

21 firing live rounds on Bloody Sunday at all. The

22 discrepancies between the two will have to be examined

23 in due course.

24 As I mentioned yesterday, it was the evidence

25 of F that he shot from Glenfada Park North at a man he


Page 67


1 said with a pistol at the east wall, who fell. The

2 Tribunal will have noticed, quite apart from the fact

3 that the number of dead and wounded in this sector

4 appears to be four, that there are more shootings to be

5 accounted for than can be accounted for by two

6 bullets. Also, there is a sizable body of evidence to

7 the effect that there was more than two shots fired

8 from a westerly direction towards the area where

9 Patrick Doherty was.

10 That brings me next to the death of Bernard

11 McGuigan who was shot in the head at the south of

12 block 1 in a position we have already seen on some of

13 the photographs and we will see again in a moment. If

14 we turn to E2, page 46, we will see the

15 O'Callaghan/Shepherd report in relation to him:

16 "There was one entry and one exit wound.

17 "The entry was on the left side of the head,

18 8 centimetres behind the ear, and was a ragged, oval

19 injury, 0.8 by 0.4 centimetres with small lacerations

20 of 3 millimetres on the anterior margin:

21 "The exit was in the right lower eyelid ...

22 "The track of the bullet was from back to

23 front, left to right at approximately 45 degrees and

24 upwards at approximately 10 degrees."

25 The X-rays taken at the time of the


Page 68


1 postmortem examination showed approximately 42 radio

2 opaque fragments within the cranial cavity which, in

3 Messrs Shepherd and O'Callaghan's opinion, are without

4 doubt bullet fragments. If we go to E2.47 at 7.9.3,

5 they say this:

6 "From the information available it is our

7 opinion that the injury was not caused by a stable and

8 intact L2A2 bullet.

9 "The four following possibilities exist:

10 "(i) The wound was caused by an L2A2 bullet

11 which had been weakened by an impact with an

12 intermediate target prior to striking the left side of

13 Bernard McGuigan's head. However, the entry wound is

14 typical of a 'clean' entry over the skull. There are

15 no surrounding or adjacent injuries that would indicate

16 that the bullet was unstable or fragmenting prior to

17 contact with Bernard McGuigan.

18 "(ii) A stable but substandard L2A2 bullet

19 which fragmented caused the wound.

20 "(iii) A stable L2A2 bullet, which had been

21 deliberately weakened to enhance the potential for

22 fragmentation, caused the wound.

23 "(iv) Some other type or calibre of

24 ammunition caused the wound.

25 "The failure to identify and recover the


Page 69


1 metal fragments from the head has precluded any

2 realistic chance of determining the type of bullet

3 used.

4 "Conclusions:

5 "A single bullet struck the left side of

6 Bernard McGuigan's head. The bullet fragmented during

7 its passage through the skull and this is reflected in

8 the metal debris seen on the X-rays and the size of the

9 exit wound. The failure to recover these metal

10 fragments precludes identification of the bullet type.

11 "Assuming the Normal Anatomical Position the

12 track is from behind and forward, from left to right.

13 However, the greater mobility of the head means that

14 these angles must be treated with greater care than

15 normal as this mobility means that the head may not

16 have been facing the same direction as the other parts

17 of the body when he was shot. However, it is clear

18 that Bernard McGuigan could not have been facing the

19 rifle that fired the shot."

20 There are many witnesses who saw Bernard

21 McGuigan after he was shot, but only a limited number

22 who saw him at the moment of his death. The issues so

23 far as that death are concerned include:

24 (i) What was he doing immediately prior to

25 his death?


Page 70


1 (ii) From where was he shot?

2 (iii) Is any significance to be attached to

3 the lead particles on the scarf that at one stage

4 covered his face, and to the lead particles detected on

5 swabs taken from him?

6 As to the first question -- what was Bernard

7 McGuigan doing? -- several witnesses say that he was

8 going out from the end of block 1 to try to attend to

9 the stricken Patrick Doherty. This evidence tallies

10 with the position in which he fell, which was to the

11 southeast of the gable end of block 1. Geraldine

12 Richmond, it will be recalled, came round the corner of

13 block 1 after Hugh Gilmore. She says that when she had

14 done so, and seen Hugh Gilmore die there, she was taken

15 away from Hugh Gilmore by Barney McGuigan and another

16 man, identified in her latest statement as Barney

17 McFadden, and was taken further to the east to where

18 the telephone box at the south of block 1 is. If we go

19 to Day 6, page 51 of the Widgery transcript, she says

20 this at C:

21 "Answer: Well, I will tell you, when I was

22 down helping Mr McGuigan the firing -- No, I was left

23 there when he was dead [this is Hugh Gilmore] and his

24 head was in my lap and this man and another man called

25 Barney McGuigan came down and took me away from Hugh


Page 71


1 Gilmore up to where the telephone box was and the

2 shooting still went on and we were at this telephone

3 box and we heard this man squealing -- I could not tell

4 you who he was or where he was -- 'I do not want to die

5 myself, I do not want to die myself.' Mr McGuigan then

6 says 'I cannot stand this no longer. If I take a white

7 handkerchief and go out, they will not shoot me.' We

8 tried to dissuade him from going out, but that man was

9 determined to go and he took about four paces from the

10 telephone box waving a white handkerchief and he got

11 shot. I want to say that neither Mr Gilmore or

12 Mr McGuigan had any weapons and Mr McGuigan was only

13 going to help to see if he could find the man that was

14 crying. That is all I want to say."

15 If we go to AM45.3, we will find her

16 statement to this Tribunal, where at paragraph 25,

17 AM45.5, she says this:

18 "Barney McGuigan, one of the men huddled at

19 the wall with me, was a community man and was generally

20 looked up to. After a short time (although I do not

21 know how long) Mr McGuigan said that he could not stand

22 the sound of the man calling any longer and that if he

23 went out waving a white hanky they would not shoot at

24 him. We tried to dissuade him from going out. We told

25 him they would shoot him. However, he was brave and he


Page 72


1 stepped away from us holding the white hanky in his

2 hand. Although I cannot be certain I think he held it

3 in his left-hand. He walked out slowly, sideways in an

4 arc, towards where we thought the sound was coming

5 from. He stepped out about 10 to 12 feet away from

6 us. All the time he was walking I could see the

7 left-hand side of his face. We were calling to him all

8 the time to come back. He kept looking back towards

9 us. I could see bullets going past us and Mr McGuigan

10 from all directions although I did not hear automatic

11 fire. The bullets sounded the same as those I had

12 heard when I had been running down Rossville Street

13 earlier.

14 "26. I remember hearing two distinct shots.

15 After the first one Mr McGuigan turned back towards us

16 and, although I cannot be certain, I think he turned

17 his whole body and not just his face. I did not see

18 the bullet hit anything, I just heard it. The second

19 shot hit him and blew his head up like a tomato

20 exploding. I saw his eye come out. I did not see the

21 back of his head."

22 Over the page, paragraph 28:

23 "At the time I thought Mr McGuigan had been

24 shot from the direction of the city walls towards

25 Rossville Street. I knew there was shooting from the


Page 73


1 right, from the Glenfada Park area across

2 Rossville Street, because I heard and saw the bullets.

3 However, the bullets were bouncing and ricocheting all

4 over and some were coming from the opposite direction,

5 i.e. from the southeast towards Rossville Street.

6 I thought he had been shot from the direction of the

7 walls because of the direction his head was facing when

8 he was shot. However, I now think he was shot from the

9 direction of the Saracen parked on Rossville Street,

10 shown on the photograph at attachment 4."

11 May we have EP25.17. That shows the Saracen

12 as described -- the APC -- coming down at the south end

13 of Glenfada Park North.

14 If we could have a look at EP32.3, this is a

15 photograph we saw earlier in relation to Hugh Gilmore.

16 We have been able, by some computer wizardry, to make

17 it more easily viewable. It shows, taken from the

18 west, the group of people surrounding Hugh Gilmore at

19 the south of block 1. Hugh Gilmore is somewhere on the

20 ground. Bernard McGuigan, as was helpfully pointed out

21 the other day, is the man just behind the third bollard

22 from the left in the photograph. One can see that at

23 this stage a number of people have gathered round Hugh

24 Gilmore. This photograph enables us to establish in

25 the sequence of deaths that Hugh Gilmore died before


Page 74


1 Bernard McGuigan.

2 Before we leave this photograph, I should say

3 that it is possible from the evidence given to this

4 Inquiry to identify a number of those who came round

5 the corner of block 1 with Hugh Gilmore, or who came

6 through the gap between blocks 1 and 2 and were at some

7 stage at the south end of block 1. For the sake of the

8 transcript and those who are interested in tracing

9 matters through, people who ended up there include:

10 Geraldine Richmond, whose evidence I have just been

11 referring to; Bernard McGuigan; Brian McCool, Barney

12 McFadden; Paul McLaughlin; Hugh Kelly; Edmund Melaugh;

13 Frank Carlin; Sean Canney; John Davis, Michael Rooney;

14 Bernard Gallagher; Thomas Harrigan; Patrick Kelly;

15 Desmond Kyle; Sheila Duffy, now Sheila Sherrin; Sean

16 McDaid; Frankie Mellan, Sean McDermott, JE Moore and

17 James Rowe.

18 I suspect many, or perhaps all of those who

19 are in that photograph are included in that list of

20 names.

21 MR MAGEE: Sir, I wonder if I could assist

22 Mr Clarke. In the photograph the person who is

23 kneeling down over the person who is prostrate on the

24 ground who has a white collar, if an arrow could be put

25 on it.


Page 75


1 LORD SAVILLE: The one with --

2 MR MAGEE: The one on the right of the

3 person --

4 LORD SAVILLE: The person immediately to the

5 right of the person appearing to wear a waistcoat?

6 MR MAGEE: Yes, a white collar.

7 MR CLARKE: That one?

8 MR MAGEE: I understand that Daniel McGowan.

9 MR CLARKE: That is very helpful. Do we have

10 EP32.3.001? This is the annotated version. Indeed,

11 what my learned friend has just said has been

12 corroborated, I suspect by Mr McGowan himself. The man

13 with the waistcoat is Frankie Mellan. Bernard McGuigan

14 I have talked about. The man with the sideburns, to

15 the left of the lamppost, has been identified by

16 somebody as Hugh Kelly. Somebody has identified Brian

17 McCool on the left. Next door to him is Bernard

18 Gallagher.

19 LORD SAVILLE: Thank you.

20 Shall we stop now until 1 o'clock?

21 MR CLARKE: Thank you.

22 (12.05 pm)

23 (The luncheon adjournment)

24 (1.05 pm)

25 MR CLARKE: It is clear that after Hugh


Page 76


1 Gilmore died, Geraldine Richmond, understandably,

2 became hysterical and screamed and, in order to shut

3 her up, she was punched, according to Brian McCool,

4 several times by him. After Bernard McGuigan had been

5 shot he, that is to say Brian McCool, and Bernard

6 Gallagher picked her up and carried her to a house in

7 Joseph Place in which house were also Michael Bradley

8 and Alana Burke and there is some difference in the

9 evidence as to whether that was the first, second,

10 third or fourth house down from the north in

11 Joseph Place.

12 There is a picture we will come to in due

13 course which shows Geraldine Richmond being carried

14 away from the south of block 1.

15 Bernard Gallagher was, according to his

16 evidence, another of those who had to strike Geraldine

17 Richmond. His evidence relevantly appears at AG3.4

18 where at paragraph 21 he says:

19 "Shortly after I heard someone suggest going

20 out with a white flag, I saw a big man in front of me

21 stand up and I had the impression he had heard what was

22 just said and was going out to wave something white to

23 try to stop the shooting. As he stepped out I remember

24 hearing someone near me wailing. I do not know who

25 that was. I think the big man was wearing an anorak


Page 77


1 (most people were that day I recall). I do not

2 remember any more details about what the big man looked

3 like. I do not recall if he was wearing a scarf. He

4 had been crouched down on his hunkers (haunches)

5 a couple of yards in front of me (further south and

6 further away from the south gable wall) and he was

7 facing north towards the south gable wall where I was

8 crouched with the girl who had fainted on my knees. As

9 he stood up, I am certain that he was still facing us

10 as he took one or two steps backwards (southwards) away

11 from the south gable wall towards Joseph Place. I do

12 not remember if he was holding anything in his hands.

13 I remember that he was looking about him in all

14 directions as he stepped back. He had only taken one

15 or two steps backwards when I heard a 'bang' and he

16 fell backwards on to his back. I cannot be sure if he

17 was standing entirely upright when he was shot or

18 whether he was crouched down a little. He lay where he

19 had fallen with his head pointing south towards

20 Joseph Place and his feet pointing north towards the

21 south gable wall of block 1 ... at the point marked

22 with an F on the attached map. I found out later that

23 he was called Barney McGuigan."

24 Another one of those who was at the gable end

25 of block 1 is Joseph Moore. He says that he saw


Page 78


1 Bernard McGuigan run out towards Joseph Place and that

2 he was facing in that direction when he was hit. His

3 statement appears at AM413.4, paragraph 20. He says

4 this:

5 "As we were all huddling against the wall,

6 one man ran out towards Joseph Place. I later

7 discovered this man was Barney McGuigan. He was

8 standing very close to me and he moved from behind or

9 beside me. I think he was to my left-hand side.

10 I felt the movement as he ran out from the wall towards

11 Joseph Place. I called out to him something to the

12 effect of 'Where do you think you are going?'. He was

13 running out and was probably about eight feet away from

14 me when he was hit. He was facing towards Joseph Place

15 and I could see the side of his face come off, although

16 I cannot remember which side. Part of his face

17 exploded in a whole mess of blood. He fell down on to

18 his back. He must have died immediately, before he hit

19 the ground. I watched the blood run out of him and

20 remember seeing his feet twitch as they were pointing

21 towards me.

22 "21. I do not know where he was shot from,

23 but at the time I got the impression that he was shot

24 from the Glenfada Park area because he had been hit in

25 the back of his head. I do not recall hearing one


Page 79


1 particular shot before he was hit and fell to the

2 ground. I do not know whether he had a scarf on him or

3 not. He did not run out with a gun. He was not

4 carrying anything in his hands. After he had fallen,

5 no one tried to approach him until the shooting had

6 died down."

7 Another witness who says that Bernard

8 McGuigan was going out to Patrick Doherty is Paul James

9 McLaughlin. I will come to his evidence in more detail

10 in a moment.

11 There are, however, some witnesses who say,

12 or whose evidence suggests that Bernard McGuigan was

13 going out towards Rossville Street when he was shot.

14 One of those is Thomas Bernard McDaid, whose evidence

15 appears at AM176.1. He lived at 11 Joseph Place, the

16 second house down from the north of Joseph Place, and

17 he was playing the acoustic guitar with a friend of his

18 called George Devlin. At paragraph 4, he says this:

19 "George and I stood on a bed and looked out

20 of a small high window in the room, north, towards

21 block 2 of the Rossville flats. I saw a group of

22 approximately 10 people at the northwestern corner of

23 block 2 at point B on the attached map."

24 If you look at AM176.3, what he is referring

25 to as the northwestern corner of block 2 is where you


Page 80


1 can see the B. He was at the house at A. If we go

2 back to 176.1:

3 "Some of the people in the group were lying

4 on the ground. My attention was immediately drawn to

5 Barney McGuigan, who was standing among the crowd at

6 B. He was a very tall man and stood out. I think his

7 right hand was raised; he seemed to be holding

8 something white in his hand and trying to get

9 attention. I assumed he was holding a handkerchief.

10 He was the only one from the group moving forward. He

11 took approximately 15 to 20 quick steps in a northwest

12 direction from point B towards Rossville Street. He

13 was bent forward and kept his head low. I had no idea

14 what he was doing. I could still hear the crackling

15 noise at this time. He did not get very far before he

16 suddenly fell forward, face down, at point C. He fell

17 forward in the direction he had been moving. People

18 started to scream. I assumed that Barney had been shot

19 because I had realised by that time that the crackling

20 sound was gunfire. I had heard live gunfire in the

21 Bogside before. At this time I could also see people

22 running into the Glenfada Park North car park.

23 "5. Very shortly after this I saw three

24 soldiers running south down Rossville Street. One

25 soldier was in front and there were two soldiers behind


Page 81


1 him; they were in a V-shape formation. The most

2 distinctive thing I can recall about the three soldiers

3 is that they were all wearing red berets and camouflage

4 uniforms. They also all had blackened faces and were

5 carrying rifles. I could still hear shooting at this

6 stage which seemed to be fired from the direction of

7 Rossville Street. The soldier at the head of the group

8 seemed to run southwest down Rossville Street, while

9 the soldier to his right ran west in the direction of

10 Glenfada Park South. The soldier on the left of the

11 lead soldier ran south in the direction of

12 Joseph Place. They were not running too fast. Their

13 movements are shown by the arrows on the attached map.

14 The crackling sound of shooting then seemed to stop.

15 The soldier who ran towards Joseph Place was carrying

16 his rifle across his chest and was looking around. He

17 looked up and saw George and I looking out of the

18 window. He lifted his rifle up to his shoulder and

19 pointed it at us. We got down out of sight."

20 If one goes back to the map at AM176.3, the

21 description of the passage of the three soldiers is

22 given by the arrows that somebody has marked on the

23 map. As we have seen, the description of Bernard

24 McGuigan as falling down, face down in a northwesterly

25 direction in which he was moving, does not fit with the


Page 82


1 photographs. Indeed, as we have seen, the photographs

2 show Bernard McGuigan to be below block 1 and not below

3 block 2. This witness is not the only person to talk

4 of Bernard McGuigan falling face down. It is possible,

5 of course, that he turned as he fell, perhaps affected

6 by the force of the bullet that struck him.

7 Another witness is Tony William Quigley,

8 whose evidence appears at AQ7.3. He describes having

9 reached a wall to the south of block 2 and parallel to

10 it. There is not a wall to the south of block 2 and

11 parallel to it, but he may have been referring to what

12 I have been calling the threepenny bits, because he

13 says at paragraph 16:

14 "From behind the wall, my view of

15 Rossville Street was restricted by the southern end of

16 block 1 of the Rossville flats although I could see the

17 rubble barricade. I could see a boy lying across the

18 middle of the rubble barricade at position J. The boy

19 appeared to have been shot. I remember that this boy

20 was young but I cannot remember what he was wearing or

21 how he was lying. I then noticed Barney McGuigan

22 emerge from the people sheltering at point I [which is

23 to the south of block 1] I knew Barney McGuigan as

24 I had worked with him for four to five years. When

25 I first saw him that day he was standing slightly south


Page 83


1 of the people sheltering at I. He was walking in

2 a westerly direction as if heading towards the rubble

3 barricade with his hands up... I believe that Barney

4 knew that the boy at the barricade was shot and was

5 going to tend to him. He took three steps in the

6 direction of the barricade before he was shot at

7 position K on the attached map and I do not know where

8 the shot came from. I saw Barney fall but I cannot

9 remember how he fell or in which position he lay after

10 being shot. I believe that he fell with his head

11 pointing towards block 1 of the Rossville flats and his

12 feet pointing towards Free Derry Corner."

13 Go to the map at AQ7.5. We will see that

14 point I where Bernard McGuigan is said to have been is

15 at the south of block 1 and he is said to have fallen

16 at point K, which is further over to the west than the

17 photographs show. The wall that he is referring to is

18 marked by the line which has been marked on the map.

19 As is apparent from the fact that it has to be marked

20 on the map, it did not exist at the time, though there

21 was there the hexagonal flower beds which may be what

22 the witness is thinking of.

23 If we go back to 7.3, paragraph 17, the

24 bottom of the page, he says:

25 "I panicked the instant I saw Barney fall and


Page 84


1 crawled on my hands and knees in a southwesterly

2 direction in front of the houses at Joseph Place.

3 I have marked the approximate route I took with a line

4 on the attached map. I continued to crawl on my hands

5 and knees until I reached the Bogside Inn on the

6 Lecky Road. I remember seeing other people crawling in

7 the same direction on my way to the Bogside Inn.

8 I also remember seeing a great many people at Free

9 Derry Corner. They appeared to be standing around,

10 dazed by what was going on. I felt safer when

11 I arrived at Free Derry Corner, but I continued to

12 crawl on my hands and knees down the Lecky Road in the

13 direction of the Bogside Inn.

14 "18. When I reached the Bogside Inn, I saw

15 about 300 people standing around. These people were

16 talking about what had just happened and were fearful

17 that the Army were going to come further into the

18 Bogside. I also remember seeing a man walking south

19 down Westland Street towards the Bogside Inn. This man

20 was carrying a rifle. I gained the impression that

21 that man had just driven down Westland Street and

22 parked his car a few yards to the north of the

23 Bogside Inn although I cannot remember him getting out

24 of the car. The man said that he was going to take on

25 the British Army. The man was tall, fairly muscular


Page 85


1 with fair hair. He was aged between 25 to 30 and

2 dressed in ordinary clothes although I cannot remember

3 any details about what he was wearing. The people

4 standing near the Bogside Inn protested and told him to

5 go. I remember them telling the man with the rifle

6 that he would make matters worse if he fired at the

7 Army and that this was exactly what the Army wanted him

8 to do. Eventually the man melted away into the crowd

9 and I did not see him again."

10 Another of those sheltered at the gable wall

11 of block 1 was Frank Carlin, whose account appears at

12 AC33.2, where in paragraph 11, the second half of the

13 page, he says:

14 "I ran across the car park and through the

15 gap between blocks 1 and 2 of the Rossville flats.

16 I kept running until I reached the telephone box at the

17 southern gable end of block 1. I sheltered against the

18 gable end together with a group of other people.

19 I cannot remember how many others were there. I recall

20 one man in particular who said that there were two

21 chaps on the rubble barricade on Rossville Street. He

22 said he needed to do something. I now know that this

23 man was Barney McGuigan. He was very angry and upset

24 and said that the bastards were shooting and men were

25 badly injured on the rubble barricade. He said that he


Page 86


1 was going to take a handkerchief and go out to them.

2 Those sheltering by the telephone box told him to stay

3 where he was.

4 "12. At this time the shooting was heavy,

5 with one shot after another. This was not the sound of

6 machine-guns, but single, loud cracks. It sounded as

7 though different guns were firing in close unison.

8 I would say that the shots were being fired from the

9 direction of William Street down towards Free Derry

10 Corner. I was standing with my back against the gable

11 wall and was therefore facing towards Joseph Place.

12 I looked towards my right and saw bullets bouncing on

13 the ground on Rossville Street.

14 "13. Barney McGuigan was sheltering at the

15 telephone box with me when he took a handkerchief in

16 his left-hand and stepped away from the telephone box

17 towards Rossville Street. He shouted at the soldiers

18 to stop shooting. He had only taken a couple of steps

19 out from the telephone box and was facing up

20 Rossville Street towards William Street when he fell to

21 the ground. He had been shot in the head. His head

22 was a terrible mess; it had been blown away. Although

23 I do not know where the shot came from, it seemed to me

24 it was obvious that it came from Rossville Street.

25 This is because Barney McGuigan was facing in that


Page 87


1 direction when he was shot. I do not remember him

2 wearing a scarf."

3 Another of those who falls into the category

4 of the people whose evidence is that Bernard McGuigan

5 was going towards Rossville Street is Ivan Cooper,

6 whose evidence is in KC12.23. He had half crawled and

7 half run in a crouched position from Free Derry Corner

8 where the meeting was to be held towards the telephone

9 box at the bottom of block 1. At paragraph 55 he says

10 this:

11 "As I continued to crawl towards Barney, he

12 started to move in a standing but crouched posture.

13 However, it was not similar to the Father Daly exercise

14 in hanky waving in the well-known images of Bloody

15 Sunday. Barney's gesture was more like a half-hearted

16 wave. Barney started to walk west from point F [point

17 F is at the bottom of block 1] towards Rossville

18 Street, across my line of vision. He was about 30 feet

19 away from me. I think that Barney had a cloth in his

20 hand to signal that he was on an errand of mercy and

21 was unarmed. He waved the cloth in a half-hearted

22 manner, which did not seem to have any positive

23 meaning, in the general direction of the north end of

24 Rossville Street. I do not recollect him having

25 anything else in his hands. I believe that there were


Page 88


1 soldiers around Kells Walk and in the area of the

2 wasteground to the east of Rossville Street, but cannot

3 recall whether I could actually see the soldiers at

4 this stage. My eyes were totally fixed on Barney.

5 "56. Barney had only taken a few steps and,

6 as he came out into the open, at about point G, I think

7 that I then heard the same cracking noise as I had

8 heard earlier of a shot being fired. The scene which

9 I saw seemed to be in slow motion, and the few seconds

10 which this scene lasted were telescoped. Barney just

11 folded up. He crumpled and fell down on his side,

12 I think it was his right side, like a bag rolling off

13 a lorry. He fell towards the wall at the south end of

14 block 1. I still could not accept that he had been

15 shot. Barney had never had any connection with any

16 subversive organisation and would never have been

17 throwing nail bombs.

18 "57. I will never forget the scene. I then

19 heard a woman who was really screaming in

20 a high-pitched tone that would not stop. I could also

21 hear wild sobbing. There was a melee. I continued to

22 crawl towards Barney's body. As I was crawling, and

23 even after I had reached Barney's body, I still could

24 not see and never did see the person who he had been

25 trying to reach. As soon as I reached Barney I knew


Page 89


1 that he had been fatally wounded. I was absolutely

2 appalled. He was lying in a pool of blood which sticks

3 strongly in my memory. I cannot picture in my mind any

4 people around Barney's body. He was lying in a similar

5 way. Half on his back, and half on his side (I think

6 the right-hand side). The position of his feet was

7 curious. His feet were crossed and twisted around. It

8 was Barney's feet which I had reached first. I think

9 they were pointing southeastwards and his head was

10 pointing west towards Rossville Street. I think that

11 Barney had his shoes on. There was then something put

12 over Barney's body by a middle aged woman which covered

13 part of his head but left part of his head still

14 visible. I do not know where the cloth went which

15 I believe Barney had had in his hand.

16 "58. As I was by Barney's body I was not

17 conscious of the presence of Army as I was completely

18 enveloped by what had happened to Barney and the

19 shouting, sobbing and screeching around me.

20 "59. I was now aware that for the first time

21 in all the demonstrations in which I had taken part

22 a person had lost his life. Prior to reaching Barney's

23 body, I was still refusing to accept that any person

24 had been shot and killed or injured."

25 That description of Barney's body as pointing


Page 90


1 southeastwards, his feet pointing southeastward and his

2 head pointing west is in fact the reverse of where

3 Barney McGuigan's body is shown in the photographs,

4 where his head is pointing southeastwards and his feet

5 are pointing west or northwest.

6 There are two further witnesses, whom it is

7 not necessary to read at this time: Anthony Harkin, at

8 AH11, and James Rowe at AR29, whose evidence appears to

9 be to a similar effect, suggesting that Barney McGuigan

10 was going in a westerly direction, out towards

11 Rossville Street.

12 There is one witness, Sean Canney, whose

13 evidence appears in this respect at AC24.7, who appears

14 to say that Bernard McGuigan was walking out in

15 a southwesterly direction to a youth lying a few feet

16 away at the southwest of block 1. What he says is

17 this, at paragraph 41:

18 "I saw a young man lying at the southwest

19 corner of block 1 of the Rossville flats near the point

20 marked K. He was not moving and appeared to be

21 seriously wounded. I did not see him fall. I did not

22 notice him until I reached the area of the telephone

23 box. The young man's feet were pointing into

24 Rossville Street (in a northwesterly direction).

25 I think that he was lying on his back, but I am not


Page 91


1 absolutely sure. He was a young man, about 17 or 18

2 years old ...

3 "42. The people on the west side of the

4 telephone box would have had a good view of the young

5 man -- a better view than I had. I could not see any

6 other bodies."

7 I should have said that he was standing, as

8 appears from paragraph 40, on the southeast of the

9 telephone box. Paragraph 42, the second sentence:

10 "I could not see the rubble barricade ...

11 "43. On the west side of the telephone box

12 there was an older man. He was certainly in his

13 fifties and may have been in his early 60s. He was

14 wearing a short coat. I cannot remember what else he

15 was wearing or whether there was anything around his

16 neck. He said words to the effect of 'we cannot leave

17 that boy out there' referring to the youth lying on the

18 floor a few feet away. The older man brought a white

19 handkerchief out of his own pocket and started to wave

20 it. He then began to move away from the wall in

21 a direction perpendicular to the wall (a southwesterly

22 direction). He took a couple of steps before the side

23 of his head exploded. He fell on his back not far from

24 the wall with his head pointing west towards

25 Rossville Street. There was a large pool of blood


Page 92


1 around his head. I have a vivid memory of seeing steam

2 rising from the blood.

3 "44. It seemed to me that the man was hit by

4 a single shot fired from across Rossville Street --

5 from the direction of Glenfada Park, although there had

6 been some intermittent shooting prior to him being

7 shot. I later learned that the man was called Bernard

8 McGuigan. I took two photographs of him. They were

9 the first photographs that I had taken since the ones

10 I took at the barricade on William Street. Attached to

11 this statement marked 'SC photo 1' is a copy of one of

12 the photographs which I have been shown by the

13 solicitors who interviewed me to take this statement."

14 That is at AC24.11. I am slightly puzzled by

15 this evidence because what we are looking at, described

16 as "SC photo 1", is identical to EP25.17, which is one

17 of Mr Peress's photographs. Anyway, that is what his

18 evidence is. If we go to the map, it is at AC24.12, he

19 is placing himself at J, which is the other side of the

20 telephone box, that is to say to the east side of the

21 telephone box. The boy who he thinks Mr McGuigan was

22 referring to is said to have been at K. K is the spot

23 where Hugh Gilmore was. It may simply be that in the

24 spot where he was, this witness saw Mr McGuigan come

25 out from behind, so far as he was concerned, the


Page 93


1 telephone box and would not have seen Mr Doherty, who

2 was somewhere over in this direction, and assumed that

3 Mr McGuigan was making for Gilmore when in fact he was

4 making towards Patrick Doherty.

5 LORD GIFFORD: I think there are in fact two

6 different photographs showing almost precisely the same

7 scene.

8 LORD SAVILLE: Can you give us the

9 references, then?

10 LORD GIFFORD: I was looking at Mr Peress's

11 photograph which I looked at in 814 and I was looking

12 at Mr Carlin's photograph at 728.

13 MR CLARKE: If we put on the screen AC24.11;

14 that is the photograph that is attached to his

15 statement and which somebody has written "25.17". If

16 we look at 728, that appears to be, to my eye, allowing

17 for the difference in contrast, the identical

18 photograph. I do not know why my learned friend says

19 that 728 is Mr Carlin's photograph.

20 LORD GIFFORD: I say that 814, which appears

21 in the sequence of Mr Peress's photographs, first of

22 all, it is shot with the camera horizontal rather than

23 vertical and, although it shows almost the same scene

24 there are minute differences. Where I think there is

25 an error is that 728 is also Mr Carlin's photograph but


Page 94


1 814 is Mr Peress's photograph. I do not know if we can

2 see 814 on the screen, that was the contrast I was

3 making between those two, which are clearly taken

4 within seconds of each other, but are in fact

5 different.

6 MR CLARKE: That is extremely helpful. That

7 sounds to me to be right. What is misleading,

8 therefore --

9 LORD SAVILLE: Yes, you can actually tell, if

10 you look at the background, the person in the

11 background to the left, below the handkerchief being

12 held, is looking straight at the camera in the one shot

13 and to his right in the second.

14 MR CLARKE: That is helpful. What is

15 therefore misleading is to have inscribed on AC24.11,

16 the reference in the top right-hand corner "EP25.17" is

17 erroneous and should be crossed out.

18 One witness, John Davis, whose evidence

19 appears at AD8.2, gives evidence which seems to suggest

20 that Bernard McGuigan was simply seeking to get out of

21 a dangerous situation. At paragraph 13 he says this:

22 "There was a man crouched down to the right

23 beside me. I think he panicked because, shortly after

24 I arrived at point B, although I cannot recall how long

25 after, he said 'I am getting out of here' or words to


Page 95


1 that effect. I was looking directly at him as he got

2 up to go and I said to him 'Stay where you are'. I did

3 not know the man at this time but now know him to be

4 Barney McGuigan.

5 "14. I said to him to stay where he was but

6 he was already up. I recall that he was wearing

7 a patterned blue anorak. To me he seemed to be middle

8 aged but I cannot recall any other details about him.

9 I cannot remember if he was wearing a scarf or not. He

10 stood up to run and I thought that he was going to run

11 towards position C because this seemed to be the only

12 likely place to go as it was not safe to go on to

13 Rossville Street.

14 "15. He took one to two steps, but he did

15 not get very far and he then fell. As soon as he got

16 up, he was dead. There was shooting going on at this

17 stage, but I cannot recall the specific shot that hit

18 him. After he fell, I remember seeing his legs. They

19 were pointing towards block 1 of the Rossville flats

20 and his head was pointing towards Joseph Place or in

21 that approximate direction, I cannot be precise.

22 I remember that one leg was crossed over the other and

23 one of them was shaking."

24 The map is at AD8.9. The position C to which

25 he is referring is the northwest of Joseph Place. He


Page 96


1 was at point B. One witness, Kathleen Brown, whose

2 evidence appears at AB94.2, gives evidence that Hugh

3 Gilmore was shot by a soldier positioned at the south

4 gable end of Glenfada Park North. She also says that

5 the same soldier shot Bernard McGuigan, but she says

6 that he was coming out from the threepenny bits

7 because, paragraph 10, she says this:

8 "From where I was looking out [she was

9 looking out from Joseph Place] I saw a body running

10 around the front of the Rossville flats, shouting

11 something. I heard after Bloody Sunday that it was

12 Hugh Gilmore and that he had been shouting 'I'm hit,

13 I'm hit'. When I saw him he was near to the

14 entranceway of block 1 of the Rossville flats at point

15 2 on the map running towards point 3. He was holding

16 his right arm up. It looked as if he was trying to run

17 for cover through the gap between blocks 1 and 2 of the

18 Rossville flats and then changed his mind. I saw him

19 stop at point 3 and turn round to face the direction

20 from which he had just run. He was shouting at the

21 same time, although I could not hear what. I cannot

22 remember what he was wearing, but they were possibly

23 dungarees.

24 "11. I then saw a soldier positioned by the

25 south gable end wall of Glenfada Park North at point 4


Page 97


1 on the map shoot Hugh Gilmore. I remember seeing

2 smoke come from the gun. The soldier was standing

3 positioned half behind the gable wall and half outside

4 from it. His position is marked by X on photograph D

5 attached to this statement."

6 Unfortunately photograph D does not seem to

7 be attached to this statement, but he is described as

8 at position 4. AB94.5 shows what she is talking

9 about. She had seen Hugh Gilmore at two, running

10 towards 3 and the soldier she is talking about is at

11 4.

12 There is a curiosity that has been pointed

13 out to me, which only the keenest of eyes would see.

14 If we go back to AB94.2, there is a reference in

15 paragraph 11 to the position of the soldier being

16 marked by X on photograph D attached to this

17 statement. If we go to 94.4, we will find that the

18 statement was signed on 13th November 1998. If we go

19 to 94.14, we will find a statement signed on 29th July

20 1999. That statement is identical, save in one

21 respect. If we go to AB94.12, in paragraph 11, it

22 reads:

23 "I then saw a soldier positioned by the south

24 gable end wall of Glenfada Park North at point 4", and

25 the sentence referring to the attached photograph is no


Page 98


1 longer there:

2 "I remember seeing smoke come from the gun.

3 The soldier was standing positioned half behind the

4 gable wall and half outside from it. He lifted his gun

5 with one arm and fired it from his waist. He never

6 took aim, simply stepped out from behind the wall,

7 lifted the gun and fired, shooting Hugh Gilmore. Hugh

8 was not facing the soldier when he was shot. I do not

9 even think he saw the soldier. I put my hands up to my

10 face and cried 'Jesus, he is dead'. I remember the

11 soldier was quite small and had a beret on his head.

12 I cannot recall the colour.

13 "12. Hugh Gilmore fell at the gable end of

14 block 1 of the Rossville flats. He went down on to his

15 front between points 2 and 3 on the map with his head

16 facing northwards towards Rossville Street at an angle

17 and his feet were facing towards Joseph Place. After

18 Hugh Gilmore was shot, I heard more firing.

19 "13. Within a matter of seconds I saw

20 another man at point 5 marked on the map, come out from

21 behind one of the threepenny bits and walk towards

22 where Hugh Gilmore lay. The man was wearing

23 a raincoat, in fawn colour, which was open. I do not

24 remember him having anything on his neck. I would say

25 he was in his thirties. He had hair, but not a lot at


Page 99


1 the front. He got up and held a white hanky up in the

2 air, waving it, looking across at the soldier at point

3 4 at Glenfada Park, as if to say 'hold your fire'. He

4 walked towards the gable end of block 1 of the flats.

5 "14. I saw the same soldier who had shot

6 Hugh Gilmore shoot this man. Again, the soldier came

7 out from behind the south gable end wall of Glenfada

8 Park North, raised his rifle with a single arm and shot

9 the man. It was a single shot. I saw smoke come from

10 the gun. I saw the man fall frontways. The place

11 I saw him fall is marked at point 6 on the map. I did

12 not know who the man was at the time, but have learned

13 since Bloody Sunday that it was Barney McGuigan."

14 AB94.16, the map, point 6 to which she refers

15 is somewhat further south of block 1 than the

16 photograph appears to show, but one wonders whether the

17 size of the circle surrounding the "3" and the "6" may

18 have dictated the precise spot where that was placed.

19 It seems pretty clear that Bernard McGuigan did not

20 come out from behind the threepenny bits, but it may be

21 -- leaving aside the question as to where he came from

22 -- that this witness in fact saw the shot that killed

23 him.

24 I have been dealing with what Bernard

25 McGuigan was doing immediately before he was shot.


Page 100


1 That evidence in part addresses the second question,

2 which is: from where did the shot that killed him

3 emanate? The witnesses give markedly different

4 accounts of the place from which the shot that killed

5 him was fired. Several speak of him being shot from

6 the west or give evidence that is consistent with his

7 being shot from that direction. We have already seen

8 that Geraldine Richmond in her statement to this

9 Tribunal says that she believes that he was shot from

10 the west, although she used to think that he was shot

11 from the walls.

12 If we go now to AM174.3, we will find the

13 evidence of Sean McDaid, who was another of those who

14 had reached the gable end of block 1, in his case by

15 trotting along the south of block 2, having come

16 through the gap between blocks 2 and 3. He says at

17 paragraph 15:

18 "I was in the area for about 10 minutes, near

19 to the outbuilding at block 1, at about the point

20 marked E before the shooting intensified. There was

21 then chaos and commotion. The sounds of the shooting

22 seemed to be all around me. A man, who I now know to

23 be Barney McGuigan, stood to my left no more than one

24 or two feet away from me at about the point marked F.

25 He suddenly fell to the ground beside me. He had been


Page 101


1 shot. I think I was looking at him when he was shot,

2 but I cannot be entirely certain. He fell backwards

3 with his feet towards block 1. I could see blood

4 pouring from his head. I knew he was dead and I said

5 a prayer.

6 "16. At the same time Barney McGuigan was

7 shot, we were standing at about six feet away from the

8 incinerator wall and about twelve feet away from the

9 wall of block 1. I do not recall him moving

10 immediately before he was shot. It may have been that

11 he moved next to me just before that. I do not

12 remember seeing him holding a white handkerchief.

13 I remember that he was wearing a white shirt with

14 a dark jacket and probably dark flannel trousers. I do

15 not know if he was wearing a scarf.

16 "17. I did not hear the particular shot that

17 killed Barney McGuigan. There were lots of shots at

18 the time. I think the shot may have come from the

19 Glenfada Park area across Rossville Street as I had

20 seen soldiers at Glenfada Park prior to that.

21 I originally thought that the shot came from the walls

22 because I thought that he had been shot in the back of

23 the head. However, I cannot be certain where it came

24 from. At the time he was shot I think he was facing

25 towards Glenfada Park, looking across Rossville Street.


Page 102


1 "18. After he was shot I was fearful that we

2 would all be shot. From where we were, I thought that

3 we were the most obvious target for the soldiers I had

4 seen on the balconies of Glenfada Park North.

5 I huddled with some of the crowd as close as possible

6 to the wall of block 1 near to the telephone box, at

7 about the point marked G. Before this I had not really

8 taken shelter. The shooting now intensified further

9 and was coming down Rossville Street towards Free Derry

10 Corner and from the Glenfada Park area across

11 Rossville Street. I could see dust and debris coming

12 off the wall of the Rossville flats -- bullets must

13 have hit near the end of block 1. After Barney

14 McGuigan was shot a girl called Richmond went

15 hysterical. I now know her full name to be Geraldine

16 Richmond but at the time I only knew her surname. She

17 was about six feet away from me in the direction of

18 Rossville Street. A man I now know to be Barney

19 McFadden punched her on the chin and knocked her out.

20 I think he was concerned that her screaming would

21 attract fire.

22 "19. I remember thinking that I might try

23 and get to Free Derry Corner but the shooting was heavy

24 so I decided it would be too dangerous to try. Two men

25 called to me by name and suggested making a dive for


Page 103


1 Molly Barr's shop at block 2 of the Rossville flats.

2 I cannot remember who they were or what they looked

3 like. I had another quick look through the gap between

4 blocks 1 and 2 and could still see the soldier kneeling

5 at the same position at the corner of the back of

6 Chamberlain Street. I called back to the men and said

7 I was staying put. They ran out anyway across the gap

8 towards block 2. As they ran out a bullet hit the

9 lightening conductor about twelve inches or so above

10 their heads on the wall at the end of block 2, at about

11 point H on the attached map. I did not see the soldier

12 fire, but the shot came from the direction of the

13 Rossville flats car park. I believed that it came from

14 the soldier I had seen at the back of

15 Chamberlain Street. I only heard that one shot from

16 there."

17 That shot, if we look at AM174.10, is said to

18 have hit the point H which appears on the screen as we

19 look at it. If we go back to AM174.3, paragraph 20:

20 "The shooting I heard from Rossville Street

21 area continued for about 15 to 20 minutes after Barney

22 McGuigan was shot. There was still a crowd of about 25

23 to 30 people against the gable end of block 1. The

24 next thing I remember is a man waving a white hanky

25 which, I think, was in his right hand. He came from


Page 104


1 the vicinity of the telephone box away from block 2

2 towards Rossville Street. I thought at the time that

3 the man was foreign. He was in his 40s. I heard

4 afterwards that it may have been Fulvio Grimaldi.

5 [I pause to say it may also have been Mr Peress]. He

6 was walking in the direction of an armoured car which

7 had stopped on Rossville Street at about the point

8 marked I. At attachment 5 is a copy photograph which

9 shows the man with the handkerchief."

10 Attachment 5 is at 174.9. There is indeed

11 a man with a handkerchief, but, unless I am very much

12 mistaken, that is neither Fulvio Grimaldi nor is it

13 Gilles Peress. If we go back to 174.5, he says this:

14 "There is also a Saracen at the left of the

15 photograph. I recall that the man was walking towards

16 a Saracen which was positioned nearer to Free Derry

17 Corner than the Saracen shown in that photograph. He

18 walked about 15 to 20 paces. As he was not attracting

19 fire I decided to scarper.

20 "21. I moved very quickly from the gable end

21 of block 1 of the Rossville flats to the back of

22 Joseph Place."

23 Another witness who was there who I said we

24 would come to in due course, and to which we now do, is

25 Paul James McLaughlin. At AM350.5, we will find his


Page 105


1 statement. He was a Knight of Malta who crossed from

2 the gable end of Glenfada Park North to the gable end

3 of block 1 where he saw Hugh Gilmore. He says in

4 paragraph 30:

5 "As we huddled by the telephone box, I could

6 see what I would describe as a small brick plinth

7 directly in front of me and slightly southwest. It was

8 approximately 20 feet away at point J. I believe the

9 plinth was made of brick and had a flat face at the

10 side closest to me. It was probably two or three feet

11 high, about four or five rows of bricks."

12 I think this is a description of threepenny

13 bits:

14 "As I looked at the plinth, I could see puffs

15 of smoke flying off the face of it. I believe these

16 were caused by bullets hitting it. In my opinion those

17 bullets must have been fired from the side, either the

18 area of Glenfada Park North or the area of the city

19 walls. I am sure if the bullets had been fired

20 directly at it down Rossville Street, then large chunks

21 would have been coming out of the plinth rather than

22 small puffs of smoke.

23 "31. At this stage, I was absolutely

24 terrified by the intensity of the shooting. However,

25 I then remember two things and I am not entirely sure


Page 106


1 of the order in which they happened. The first thing

2 was becoming aware of a man lying wounded somewhere to

3 the southeast, between the area of the shops at the

4 bottom of block 2 of the Rossville flats and the

5 maisonettes called Joseph Place, approximately point

6 K ... I do not know how I became aware of this man

7 because I am sure from my position by the telephone

8 box, he was out of my line of vision. I later found

9 out that this man was called Paddy Doherty, but I do

10 not remember going any closer to his body. I do not

11 remember treating him.

12 "32. The second thing which I remember was

13 seeing a man who I did not know but later found out was

14 called Bernard McGuigan walk out from our group as if

15 to go and assist the man. It may have been the case

16 that Bernard McGuigan was in a better position than me

17 and actually saw the man, but I am not sure.

18 "33. Bernard McGuigan took no more than five

19 steps out from our group towards the injured man.

20 I had a clear view of the back of him and believe he

21 was wearing a dark overcoat. I am sure he was not

22 wearing a hat, but am unable to say whether he was

23 wearing a scarf as this would have been covered by the

24 back of his coat. I do not remember what he was doing

25 as he walked out and although I do not specifically


Page 107


1 recall seeing him wave, he may have done.

2 "34. The shooting at this time was still

3 intense and before he had gone more than five steps,

4 I saw him fall to the floor. I did not actually see

5 him shot, I just remember seeing him fall. My memory

6 is of him falling flat on his face, although I have

7 seen photographs of him lying on his back. I do not

8 know whether this was because he was turned over or

9 whether he rolled as he fell. I definitely did not see

10 him turn round and am sure that when he was shot and

11 fell, he was facing southeast towards the injured man

12 lying by Joseph Place. The position where Bernard

13 McGuigan fell is on the attached map marked with L."

14 That witness, Paul McLaughlin, appears in

15 photograph EP26.21. He is recognisable by the Knight

16 of Malta uniform that he is wearing. He appears in

17 other photographs as well, also distinguishable by the

18 uniform, that is one of them.

19 Another of those who was at block 1 ...

20 (Pause).

21 LORD SAVILLE: While you were doing that,

22 going back to Lord Gifford's point, because I think the

23 two photographs in question were actually both taken by

24 Mr Peress. If you look at the contact sheets, and

25 I was also looking at the photographs, about 815 and so


Page 108


1 on.

2 MR CLARKE: If we look at 233.17, which is

3 the contact sheet to which you have just referred, what

4 we are looking for is the second contact sheet down

5 from the top. The second photograph from the left,

6 that is photograph 813. It is also page 728. That

7 shows the gentleman who is on his haunches looking

8 towards the photographer. It is also EP25/17, which

9 shows the same. You see the person on his haunches

10 looking towards the photographer. It is also AC24.11,

11 which is the attachment to Mr Carlin's statement upon

12 which, contrary to what I said earlier, somebody has

13 correctly written "25.17".

14 If we go back to 233.17, and go back to the

15 contact print, the next photograph in the sheet is

16 third from the left. That is photograph 814 in which

17 the gentleman on the left kneeling down is looking to

18 the west, but they are both photographs of Mr Peress

19 and in the Peress series and not, it would appear --

20 I do not think anything turns on this, but for the sake

21 of accuracy, they do not appear to be photographs of

22 Mr Carlin.

23 LORD GIFFORD: I agree with that. It would

24 seem Mr Carlin's photographs have not survived.

25 LORD SAVILLE: I think that is probably the


Page 109


1 case, which is a pity. But at least we have cleared up

2 one point. Thank you very much.

3 MR CLARKE: If we could go to AR28.4.

4 Michael Rooney was another of those at the telephone

5 box, sheltering between it and the transformer to the

6 east. At paragraph 15, he says this:

7 "There was then a lull in the shooting for

8 a couple of minutes and I became aware of a group of

9 men standing at the point I have marked N on the map.

10 This small group of men was about three to four yards

11 away from the southern gable end wall of block 1. They

12 were discussing the fact that someone had been shot at

13 the south end of block 2. I could not see that body

14 because my field of vision was restricted (I was still

15 in the gap between the transformer and the telephone

16 box). I did not see where this group of men had come

17 from. Among them was Bernard McGuigan. I knew Bernard

18 McGuigan well because he was my mother's cousin. The

19 last time I saw him alive he was standing with the

20 small group of men I have referred to. His whole body

21 was turned towards the southeast facing the steps that

22 lead to Fahan Street East. His left shoulder was

23 pointing towards me. The other chaps who were with him

24 were closer to me than he was. There was not a lot of

25 room between the telephone box and the transformer.


Page 110


1 I was sitting on the lap of a man who was on his

2 hunkers with his back to the gable end wall. Danny

3 Murray was next to me and Billy McVeigh was facing me.

4 I could see over his head to Free Derry Corner:

5 "16. The next thing I remember is hearing

6 another series of shots ring out. I cowered

7 instinctively. I looked up when the shooting was

8 over. Bernard McGuigan was lying where he had stood at

9 point N. He had been shot in the head. There was

10 a pool of blood already forming around his head. Billy

11 McVeigh, who was facing me, had his back to

12 Mr McGuigan's body. He said that he was going to make

13 a break for it towards Free Derry Corner. I said

14 'Jesus, look behind you'. We all said the rosary.

15 "17. I have been shown a photograph which is

16 attached. This shows a number of men around the

17 telephone box. Mr McGuigan's body is in the

18 foreground. There is a man crouching, who I have

19 marked with a red arrow. He was one of the chaps who

20 was in the group with Bernard McGuigan just before he

21 was shot. I do not know his name. I do not recognise

22 any of the other individuals in the photograph and I am

23 not in the photograph myself.

24 "18. I remember that at that time I had

25 a fear of crossing the gap between blocks 1 and 2 of


Page 111


1 the Rossville flats at any time, not just on this day.

2 This was because the Army observation post from the

3 Embassy Ballroom had a clear line of fire through that

4 gap. Therefore initially I assumed that Bernard

5 McGuigan had been shot through that gap. However,

6 I was confused because my impression at the time he was

7 killed was that all of the shots I had heard had come

8 from the Rossville Street area. I realised after

9 a period of reflection that Bernard McGuigan could not

10 have been shot through the gap between blocks 1 and 2

11 of the Rossville flats because he was protected from

12 the line of fire through that gap by the southern gable

13 wall of block 1. Each of the volleys of shots which

14 I have described earlier in my statement sounded like

15 a whole magazine being emptied. They did not appear to

16 be deliberate, aimed shots. My impression was that

17 shots were being fired by more than one soldier. There

18 must have been more than 108 rounds fired during the

19 course of the afternoon as stated by the Army."

20 One of the witnesses to the shooting of

21 Bernard McGuigan was Joseph Doherty, who was looking

22 from the letter box in a house in Joseph Place. He

23 gave evidence to Lord Widgery. That evidence is at

24 Day 8, page 13, where at the top of the page he said

25 this:


Page 112


1 "Question: Where was the soldier who

2 appeared to fire at him?

3 Answer: He was in the alleyway leading into

4 Glenfada Park, where previously the group of people

5 where the youth and the man who had walked out to the

6 barricade were shot. They had left this entry.

7 Question: Is that about opposite the

8 barricade, there?

9 Answer: That is correct.

10 Question: Did you see him after he had been

11 shot?

12 Answer: I saw him fall, and just exactly how

13 long he lay there before I went to him, I cannot say.

14 Question: Was there any more shooting at

15 this stage?

16 Answer: There was shooting, yes, but I could

17 not see. I heard the shooting, but I could not

18 identify it.

19 Question: Did you then see a soldier go into

20 Glenfada Park?

21 Answer: The soldier that I saw shoot the man

22 just opposite the telephone box never left

23 Glenfada Park. He stayed at that alleyway.

24 Question: Did you subsequently see soldiers

25 moving back towards William Street?


Page 113


1 Answer: I did.

2 Question: Did you then open the door and

3 leave the house in which you had been?

4 Answer: Yes."

5 So on that evidence Bernard McGuigan was shot

6 by a soldier in the mouth of Glenfada Park North. If

7 you go to page 14, at the bottom of the page, he was

8 asked this by Mr Hill.

9 "Mr Hill: When you saw the soldier at

10 Glenfada Park shooting, you are satisfied that it was

11 as a result of that shot that Mr McGuigan fell dead?

12 Answer: Yes, I am satisfied in my own mind.

13 Question: That soldier was firing from the

14 alleyway near the gable of Glenfada Park?

15 Answer: That is correct.

16 Question: Did he stay there?

17 Answer: He did, yes, for a time.

18 Question: Did he subsequently fire another

19 two rounds roughly in the direction of Mr McGuigan?

20 Answer: Yes.

21 Question: Could you see what he was firing

22 at at that time?

23 Answer: No, I could not.

24 Question: Could you see whether those were

25 live shots?


Page 114


1 Answer: They were.

2 Question: Could you hear any noise or see

3 anything which would have justified those other two

4 shots?

5 Answer: No, I could not see anything at

6 all ...

7 Question: Did any persons go near him?

8 Answer: No.

9 Question: Did you get to him rather quickly?

10 Answer: I did.

11 Question: Would you have been one of the

12 first persons to get to him?

13 Answer: I believe I was the first person to

14 get to him.

15 Question: Could any person have removed

16 a weapon from Mr McGuigan without your knowing about

17 it?

18 Answer: No.

19 Question: Are you satisfied that he had no

20 gun, firearm, weapon or explosive?

21 Answer: I am, yes.

22 Question: Then you saw the Saracens go past

23 the barricade and down to it and pick up some bodies?

24 Answer: That is correct.

25 Question: Did any civilians say anything to


Page 115


1 the soldiers at the Saracens?

2 Answer: They did, yes. They called at the

3 soldiers to come over to the Rossville flats and to

4 lift and take away two bodies that were there.

5 Question: Was that the body of Gilmore and

6 the body of McGuigan?

7 Answer: That is correct.

8 Question: Did the soldiers respond to that?

9 Answer: No, they just went back down

10 Rossville Street."

11 As I say, on that evidence Bernard McGuigan

12 was shot by a soldier at the mouth of Glenfada Park

13 North. Mr Doherty has now given a statement to this

14 Tribunal to a different effect. If we look at AD76.4,

15 at paragraph 27, he says this:

16 "He [that is Bernard McGuigan] walked out

17 from the group of people possibly 10 feet or so.

18 I have a recollection that he was looking around and my

19 impression at the time was that possibly he was

20 appealing for help. I have a recollection that he was

21 holding a handkerchief but I cannot be sure. At the

22 same time I saw two soldiers. I cannot describe them

23 in detail, but I can clearly recall them appearing at

24 the corner of the gable wall of the eastern block of

25 Glenfada Park South. I am conscious that I saw the two


Page 116


1 soldiers walk up to this point, but I cannot be clear

2 whether they came through the alleyway between the

3 southern and eastern blocks or had come through the

4 alleyway between the western and southern blocks and

5 had walked along and outside the southern block

6 parallel to Fahan Street West. I have read the

7 evidence that I gave to the Lord Widgery Inquiry on the

8 position of these soldiers where I did not make it

9 clear that this was the position of the two soldiers in

10 question. I am quite clear on this, and any contrary

11 information begin, for example, in paragraph 5 of

12 a statement made by me on 25th February 1972, is

13 incorrect.

14 "28. I can recall that one soldier moved

15 back -- I believe into Glenfada Park South itself,

16 although I cannot be sure. The other stayed and

17 dropped to his knee, took aim and fired one shot at

18 Bernard McGuigan, who fell to the ground. I have

19 a very clear recollection that it was this soldier that

20 shot Bernard McGuigan. This soldier fired at least two

21 other shots, possibly more, in the same direction.

22 "29. I can recall that the other soldier

23 came back up to him and called him back. Both turned

24 around and went out of my sight."

25 What he is saying is that they appeared, the


Page 117


1 soldiers, at the corner of the gable wall of the

2 eastern block at G17. If you go to AD76.6, he has not

3 actually marked where they appeared on the map but the

4 corner of the gable wall at reference G17 is in the

5 square that I am pointing out and highlighting on the

6 plan now. So he appears to be saying in this statement

7 that they appeared at that spot and one of them shot

8 from there, as opposed to somewhere at the mouth of

9 Glenfada Park North.

10 That is what he says in his statement to the

11 Tribunal which is difficult to reconcile with his

12 statement, for instance, to the Widgery Inquiry, but

13 also if we look at AD76.9, we will find his statement

14 to the Widgery Tribunal. At paragraph 4 he said:

15 "I saw soldiers beyond the barricade and they

16 were in what looked like firing positions. I saw

17 a group of people in the opening by the barricade

18 leading into Glenfada Park. I saw a youth leave the

19 group and come out to the barricade. He walked out and

20 at the barricade he leaned down as if to pick something

21 up. As he straightened up I could see nothing of any

22 size in his hands .... He had just got into a standing

23 position when he was shot.

24 "5. Immediately after the lad fell I saw

25 a man come out of the same opening. He walked out


Page 118


1 towards the lad. He had nothing in his hands.

2 I cannot be certain in what position his hands were.

3 He went to lift the lad. He was shot."

4 Three lines down:

5 "The people remaining in the opening turned

6 and ran. Shortly afterwards I saw two soldiers in this

7 opening. One moved out of sight, the other stayed by

8 the gable wall at the opening. Then I looked towards

9 the telephone box and saw about ten people huddled

10 against the wall. One lad at the very edge by

11 Rossville Street was lying on the ground. I saw a man

12 walk from between Joseph Place and the flats. He was

13 holding nothing I could see. He was just walking

14 normally. When he was about six feet away from the

15 telephone box I saw the soldier in the opening take aim

16 and fire at him. The man fell. He lay still."

17 Somebody has written in manuscript

18 "McGuigan". So the oral evidence he gave was

19 consistent with the written statement that he had given

20 before, but his evidence to this Tribunal is that the

21 soldiers were outside Glenfada Park South.

22 In his NICRA statement, AD76.7, the matter

23 appears as follows, made on 31st January 1972. He said

24 this:

25 "I looked down Rossville Street as far as


Page 119


1 I could see from the letter box and I saw soldiers at

2 the first row of maisonettes in Rossville Street taking

3 firing positions at the low wall in front of the

4 maisonettes [Kells Walk]. In the passageway which

5 leads to the courtyard of maisonettes in

6 Rossville Street about four men were sheltering. One

7 young man came out to the rubble which used to be

8 a barricade and bent down to pick up a stone. The

9 soldiers I had watched shot him. He fell. A man ran

10 out to drag him in and he also was shot and fell on top

11 of the youth. The passageway cleared. I then saw two

12 soldiers at the passageway. This brought them into

13 sight of the people huddling at the high flats. I saw

14 one soldier taking aim at Barney McGuigan who was

15 walking over the shelter of the flat gable and firing.

16 Barney fell."

17 There again he is talking about the

18 passageway which leads to the courtyard of maisonettes

19 in Rossville Street, from which one young man comes out

20 to the rubble barricade which, again, would appear to

21 be the entrance to Glenfada Park North.

22 It will be remembered that Soldier 227 also

23 saw a soldier kneeling on the corner of Glenfada Park

24 by the lamppost, by the rear of the first block is how

25 he described it, fire two aimed shots from the shoulder


Page 120


1 in a line of fire parallel with block 2 at a man by the

2 bottom end of block 1 near the kiosk in the position

3 where Bernard McGuigan is shown. One gets that from

4 Day 16 at page 43. At the bottom of the page, after he

5 had seen the individuals being arrested at the gable

6 end of Glenfada Park North, he is asked the question:

7 "Question: Did you observe any weapons among

8 those people?

9 Answer: Yes."

10 As we saw earlier, the matter is not then

11 taken any further. He was then asked this:

12 "Question: Did you hear any sound of firing

13 from the Glenfada Park courtyard at that time or any

14 time?

15 Answer: At that particular time, no.

16 Question: Or any time later?

17 Answer: Just the rounds that had been fired

18 by the troops in the area.

19 Question: When you heard the pistol shots

20 from the Rossville flats, did you see any counteraction

21 taken?

22 Answer: Yes, I did.

23 Question: What was that?

24 Answer: A soldier kneeling on the corner at

25 Glenfada Park fired two definite shots.


Page 121


1 Question: Whereabouts was the soldier

2 kneeling, so far as you observed?

3 Answer: He was kneeling by the lamppost by

4 the rear of the first block ...

5 Question: In which direction did he fire?

6 Answer: Down to my low and right.

7 Question: Parallel with the coloured block

8 of the Rossville flats?

9 Answer: Yes.

10 Question: Did you see what he was firing at?

11 Answer: No, sir, I did not.

12 Question: How many shots did he fire?

13 Answer: Two, sir ... they were deliberate

14 shots."

15 Top of the next page.

16 Question: Where had he got his gun?

17 Answer: In the shoulder."

18 Then he said he fired two shots.

19 "Question: When he fired those two shots did

20 you see any man who may have been his target?

21 Answer: Yes, I did, by the bottom end of

22 block 1.

23 Question: Was that near the telephone kiosk?

24 Answer: Yes.

25 Question: What did you see?


Page 122


1 Answer: I saw a man fall, sir.

2 Question: Did a small group of people

3 gather?

4 Answer: They stood away there as soon as he

5 was hit."

6 He was asked to look at Mr Peress's

7 photographs. He was asked:

8 "Question: Do you see a man lying there?

9 Answer: Yes.

10 Question: And the other one, a man lying

11 some distance from the corner?

12 Answer: Yes.

13 Question: Is that the position in which

14 those two men were lying that you saw?

15 Answer: The man in the forecourt?

16 Question: The man in the forecourt.

17 Answer: Yes.

18 Question: That was the forecourt of the last

19 photographs, 11 and 13?

20 Answer: Yes."

21 Then he goes on to his evidence about a man

22 moving along apparently wounded. If we go to page 48,

23 at B he was asked this:

24 "Question: What was the next 7.62 firing or

25 SLR firing you heard?


Page 123


1 Answer: From the corner of Glenfada Park.

2 Question: Where was that directed towards?

3 Answer: From what I could see, at the man

4 with the rifle to my low and to the right."

5 He indicated where that was. Then he said

6 that he saw somebody actually firing, "a soldier on one

7 knee firing deliberate shots":

8 "Question: In your position, with the line

9 of view you had there, could you see the telephone

10 kiosk?

11 Answer: Yes, just the corner of it.

12 Question: Presumably you could see the

13 people sheltering round the corner?

14 Answer: I saw a group here.

15 Question: Would it be the group of people

16 such as we see in photograph 13 of EP25? That is the

17 body you identified at a period later?

18 Answer: Yes.

19 Question: That was the kind of crowd you saw

20 there?

21 Answer: Yes, there was a few more there."

22 The top of the next pain page:

23 "Question: Yes, probably you are right.

24 When this body appeared here, that was after the

25 soldier had appeared from this position?


Page 124


1 Answer: Yes.

2 Question: Your deduction is that it was the

3 soldier shot this man who was here?

4 Answer: Yes, sir.

5 Question: The man who was shot was quite

6 obviously in the vicinity of the telephone box or in

7 the projection lying out from the corner of the

8 telephone box?

9 Answer: In the area of the telephone box.

10 Question: You got the impression that the

11 soldier was firing at him?

12 Answer: Yes.

13 Question: Did you see that man come out

14 before he fell to the ground?

15 Answer: I was observing the general group,

16 sir, and I was not identifying any individual ... when

17 I saw him fall he was about two or three yards from the

18 group, sir."

19 He said he had obviously come from the

20 group.

21 So the gist of what he is saying is that he

22 attributes the death of the man in the position of

23 Bernard McGuigan to the soldier firing from

24 Glenfada Park.

25 There are three more civilian witnesses who


Page 125


1 it is appropriate to look at under this heading. If we

2 go to AD105, we will find the evidence of Susan

3 Doherty, who was in Joseph Place at about the third

4 house down. In paragraph 21 of her statement at

5 AD105.3, she says this:

6 "I also witnessed what I now believe to be

7 the shooting of Bernard/Barney McGuigan. I did not

8 know it was Barney McGuigan at the time. I saw a man

9 with his hands in the air waving a white hanky. He was

10 standing at the southern end of block 1 of the

11 Rossville flats. I think there was a lift in the flats

12 and he was somewhere around there. As I looked out of

13 Joseph Place, block 2 of the Rossville flats blocked my

14 view of him slightly. I was only able to see his hand

15 up to his elbows. I saw that he was waving a white

16 hanky in the air. I could not see the man's face.

17 "22. I saw the soldier who shot Barney

18 McGuigan. He was walking up Rossville Street away from

19 Free Derry Corner at the northern end of

20 Glenfada Park South in the area of grid reference H16.

21 At about point 10 on the attached map the soldier

22 stopped, turned towards the man I now know to be Barney

23 McGuigan (who was at about point 9), dropped on to one

24 knee and fired across Rossville Street at him."

25 105.6 is the map. Point 10 is just to the


Page 126


1 side of the Glenfada Park South pram ramp and point 9,

2 where Barney McGuigan is, is at the south of block 1.

3 So she places the soldier who shot him as nearly, but

4 not quite, in the mouth of Glenfada Park North. If we

5 go back to 105.4:

6 "The soldier had a clear view of Barney

7 McGuigan. He then calmly stood up and continued

8 walking as if nothing had happened. I do not recall

9 hearing the shot. There were hysterical people in

10 Joseph Place. I do remember seeing the recoil of the

11 rifle as he fired. This shooting sticks out in my head

12 because of the way that the soldier did it, it seemed

13 so cold blooded. I remember it clearly because it

14 bothered me that he had done that.

15 "23. I think that the soldier was wearing

16 a beret. For some reason that is in my mind but

17 I cannot be totally sure. He had no other protection

18 on his head. He was wearing normal gear, green khakis

19 like the others. He was a stockily built soldier with

20 a round face. I cannot remember whether his face was

21 blackened. I did not see colours that day, only black

22 and white. After the shooting, the soldier just got up

23 and walked away."

24 Another witness is Desmond Patrick Kyle who,

25 at AK42.6, gives evidence of the death of Bernard


Page 127


1 McGuigan. He too was one of those at the south of

2 block 1. He said that after the death of Hugh Gilmore

3 he started to crawl to the east along the shops of

4 block 2 and as he did so, he saw a Paratrooper at the

5 entrance to Glenfada Park North. I pick it up at

6 paragraph 28, where he says:

7 "We edged slowly along the shops of block 2,

8 moving in a southeasterly direction. We had got about

9 a quarter of the way along the block at point L when

10 I turned around and saw a Paratrooper on the opposite

11 side of Rossville Street at the entrance to Glenfada

12 Park North at point M."

13 Point M is at AK42.17. It is close to where

14 the previous witness places the soldier in question.

15 If we go back to AK42.6, he says this, four lines down

16 in paragraph 28:

17 "I think he had come south down

18 Rossville Street [that is the opposite of what the

19 previous witness thought] because at the time I had

20 a clear view of the entranceway to Glenfada Park North,

21 and my impression was that he had not come from there.

22 The soldier continued to walk slowly southwards down

23 Rossville Street; he was quite brazen about the way he

24 was walking and was not up against a wall. The

25 soldier, who seemed to be right handed, was holding his


Page 128


1 gun by his midriff and turning his head from side to

2 side, looking around. He was tall and looked

3 confident. He had a red beret on so I could tell he

4 was a Para. He had a white face with no camouflage

5 on. I do not think the sleeves of his jacket were

6 rolled up. As I saw him at point M there were no

7 people standing behind him at the gable end of the

8 eastern block of Glenfada Park North.

9 "29. The soldier saw and looked at us. He

10 lowered his gun to his hip and casually fired two shots

11 in our general direction. The shots appeared to go

12 high and I do not think they would have hit anyone. It

13 was as if the soldier was saying 'here I am', merely

14 making his presence known. After he had fired the two

15 shots, the soldier walked backwards, north up

16 Rossville Street, out of my line of sight. I was very

17 frightened when I saw him as he had the opportunity to

18 shoot us. Until then I did not think that the Army

19 knew there were people to the south of blocks 1 and 2

20 of the Rossville flats and now they knew people were

21 there they might come after us. We therefore started

22 moving quicker in a southeasterly direction along block

23 2. As we walked along by the shops we tried to get

24 into them for cover. I remember banging on the door of

25 Barr's but it was locked. As we walked along there we


Page 129


1 tried to stay as close to the shops as possible.

2 I looked across to the flats at Joseph Place and the

3 people there were shouting at us words like 'don't

4 move, don't run across here, they are still

5 shooting.'".

6 That is a reference to shots fired,

7 apparently high in the air, which he does not think

8 would have hit anyone. They are certainly not shots

9 that would tally with any evidence of the soldiers. .

10 Lastly amongst the civilians under this

11 heading, a witness named William MacDermott, who was

12 looking from the middle of Joseph Place at the relevant

13 time, says at AM189.5 that he was in the passageway

14 along Joseph Place. At paragraph 21 he refers to

15 standing between the two blocks of Joseph Place and

16 looking north up Rossville Street. In paragraph 22 he

17 says:

18 "As I was peeping out of the alleyway I heard

19 a bullet pass close to my head which hit the wall

20 overhead. I heard a thud above my head. The shot

21 seemed to be fired from the area of Glenfada Park,

22 although I did not see any soldiers there. Whoever

23 fired the shot must have seen me before I saw him."

24 That is of course evidence of firing towards

25 Joseph Place, but it identifies the shot as apparently


Page 130


1 coming from the area of Glenfada Park.

2 It will be recalled that Simon Winchester

3 told Lord Widgery that after he had come through the

4 alleyway between blocks 2 and 3, from the car park of

5 the Rossville flats, he went up the steps to Fahan

6 Street and saw a soldier fire between four and six

7 shots in the direction of Joseph Place from just in

8 front of Glenfada Park South and saw two people fall to

9 the ground, but they were not shot by the soldier whom

10 he had seen firing since that soldier was firing

11 towards the gap between the two Joseph Place houses,

12 which is evidence that ties in with that of William

13 McDermott we have just been looking at.

14 But he then said that he saw two more people

15 fall, an 18 year old wearing a blue denim top and

16 jacket, who was the one nearest to him, and what might

17 have been an older man with a brown overcoat. That

18 older man could have been Bernard McGuigan, although he

19 had -- I do not say Simon Winchester said that, I am

20 simply saying it is logically possible that the older

21 man could be Bernard McGuigan, although he had in fact

22 a blue anorak and not a brown overcoat.

23 There are a number of witnesses who speak in

24 general terms of a volley or volleys of shots coming

25 from the west. Thus, could we have AK30.2. AK30.2 is


Page 131


1 a portion of the evidence of Edward Keogh, who says at

2 paragraph 10 that:

3 "From the living room window" -- this is

4 a flat in block 2 "I could see over towards

5 Glenfada Park, Free Derry Corner and Joseph Place.

6 I could see approximately 15 soldiers positioned near

7 Glenfada Park, aiming and firing across the front of

8 block 2 of the Rossville flats towards the Fahan Street

9 steps. There were a couple of Pigs there too."

10 Brian Doherty was one of the people who took

11 Michael Bradley through the gap between blocks 2 and 3

12 into, he said, one of the shops on the south side.

13 There came a time when he decided to leave the shop and

14 make for Free Derry Corner and as he did so a volley of

15 shots rang out, appearing to come from the west. They

16 all dropped to the ground and began crawling back to

17 block 2. One gets that at AD57.5 at paragraph 35, when

18 he said:

19 "When we had got the man through the gap

20 between block 2 and 3 we headed towards a line of

21 shops."

22 He describes how one was open and that they

23 went into the shop for about four or five minutes.

24 Paragraph 37:

25 "I decided to leave the shop and run to Free


Page 132


1 Derry Corner. I seem to remember that a group of other

2 people had the same idea, and when there was a lull in

3 the firing we all ran together towards Free Derry

4 Corner ...

5 "38. We had not got very far when another

6 volley of shots rang out. By the sound of them these

7 shots seemed to be coming from our west, perhaps from

8 the area around Glenfada Park.

9 "39. We all realised that we were exposed

10 where we were and dropped to the ground at the position

11 marked F. We began crawling back towards block 2, but

12 had only got a few yards when another volley of shots

13 rang out. The position where we were when this volley

14 of shots occurred is marked with a G.

15 "40. I think I saw some of these shots

16 striking the ground as I was down on the ground at

17 position G. I saw two or three sparks fly up from the

18 concrete in front of me. These sparks cannot have been

19 the muzzle of flashes of guns being fired since they

20 were so close to me and I could not see any soldiers.

21 I could not tell from the sparks themselves where the

22 guns had been fired from, but the second volley of

23 shots seemed to come from the same direction as the

24 first, i.e. Glenfada Park."

25 The map is at AD57.11 and the place where the


Page 133


1 shots are alleged to have landed is G. At AD5.4, we

2 will find the evidence of Thomas Ralph Dawes, who was

3 at the south of block 2, where he saw four or five men

4 running past him and carrying the body of a wounded

5 person into what may have been the second house in

6 Joseph Place. Picking it up at paragraph 20:

7 "I remember seeing the body of a man lying at

8 the position I have marked H on the attached plan. He

9 was lying on the ground with his head facing south and

10 his legs nearer to the Rossville flats. He was lying

11 on his stomach. His face turned away from me. I did

12 not recognise the man at all, and cannot specifically

13 remember anything about him. He may have been wearing

14 a dark jacket."

15 H is at AD5.10 and is at a spot not normally

16 associated with a body. H is on its side, it is where

17 I am pointing to. If we go back to AD5.4, he says

18 this, paragraph 21:

19 "I walked towards this body, but as I did so

20 I was shot at. Bullets hit the pavement in front of

21 me, the chips of the paving slabs flew towards me so

22 I knew that the shots must have come from the direction

23 of Rossville Street and Glenfada Park.

24 "22. As soon as these shots rang out I fell

25 to the ground for cover. I then crawled back in


Page 134


1 a southerly direction towards Joseph Place."

2 Similarly Noel Doherty, whose evidence

3 appears at AD91.6, came round the south of block 2 from

4 the alleyway between block 2 and 3. He says this,

5 paragraph 32:

6 "When I reached the southern part of block 2

7 of the Rossville flats, there were people making their

8 way out of the area by crawling south along the east of

9 Joseph Place. Usually, I would have walked home past

10 the threepenny bits and across the open ground, heading

11 for home in Cable Street. Although there seemed to be

12 a lull in the shooting at this point, I did not feel

13 I could go across to the open ground.

14 "33. However, before I could think further

15 about how I would escape the shooting I noticed someone

16 lying on the ground near the western gable end of block

17 2 ... I started walking down towards him. The man was

18 lying on his back in the approximate position numbered

19 11, with his head pointing towards Joseph Place and his

20 feet towards Rossville Street. Blood was flooding out

21 of his head. He wore nothing on his head and his face

22 was uncovered. To the best of my recollection he was

23 not wearing a scarf. Upon seeing him, I became

24 terribly frightened. I was within six to ten feet or

25 so of him when people sheltering by the telephone kiosk


Page 135


1 in the approximate position marked 12 shouted at me to

2 take cover. At about the same time, shooting

3 recommenced. The shooting was very intense. I could

4 not tell where the shooting was coming from, although

5 at the time I thought the shooting was coming from the

6 direction of Glenfada Park North. I turned and ran

7 east back towards the alleyway at the rear of Joseph's

8 Place."

9 If you look at the map at 91.8, he refers to

10 the body being in the spot marked 11, which is not

11 where Bernard McGuigan's body was, it is a bit further

12 to the southeast, but the description of the body is

13 very similar.

14 Lastly, at AK22, you will find the evidence

15 of Patrick James Kelly. He is one of those who was at

16 the south of block 1. AK22.5, he says this:

17 "... I saw that Barney McGuigan had been

18 shot. He was lying about two or three yards away from

19 me and I have marked his position as K on the plan ...

20 Some people have suggested that shots may have been

21 fired from the city walls and I am of the opinion that

22 this is correct and that Mr McGuigan was hit by one of

23 these shots."

24 He says at paragraph 27:

25 "There was heavy shooting all the time that


Page 136


1 I was sheltering by the telephone box. The level of

2 shooting had intensified from when I had just come out

3 of the Rossville flats car park. The shooting must

4 have lasted about 10 minutes. Again, I am not sure how

5 many shots were fired, but there were only very slight

6 gaps in the gunfire. There may also have been single

7 shots fired as well as the volleys of gunfire. I am

8 not entirely sure from where the shots were fired.

9 However, their direction seemed to have changed and

10 I think that the firing was coming from the region of

11 Kells Walk which is on the west side of

12 Rossville Street, north of the rubble barricade."

13 He then describes, paragraph 29, "a lull in

14 the shooting" and he:

15 "Crept a little way to the south, close to

16 Mr McGuigan's body" and "peered east around the west

17 gable end of block 2. I could see another body lying

18 at the point marked L [approximately where Mr Doherty's

19 body was]."

20 He says:

21 "As I turned to face northwest I could see

22 a group of two or three soldiers crouching behind a low

23 wall at the point that I have marked M. I also attach

24 as appendix 3 a copy of a photograph where I have

25 marked the position of the soldiers with an X."


Page 137


1 That photograph is at AK22.8. This is not

2 the wall to the south of Kells Walk, but it is the

3 little wall to the south of Glenfada Park North. So he

4 saw soldiers there when he turned round. Go back to

5 AK22.5, the bottom half of the page he says this, fifth

6 line, paragraph 30:

7 "I could only see the heads and shoulders of

8 these solders. I only got a fleeting glance at the

9 soldiers and was too far to get a clear view. I can

10 therefore not properly describe the soldiers but

11 I could see that they were wearing helmets. I am not

12 sure but I think they were wearing visors which partly

13 concealed their faces, which I think were blackened.

14 They were wearing the usual Army camouflage uniforms.

15 Their rifles were pointing over the wall towards me.

16 The soldiers made no movement towards me, but I went

17 back to the safety of the telephone kiosk."

18 So he opines that Barney McGuigan was shot

19 from the walls, but he refers to firing coming from the

20 region of Kells Walk and seeing two or three soldiers

21 behind a low wall in a firing position at the south of

22 Glenfada Park North.

23 I wonder whether that might be a convenient

24 moment?

25 LORD SAVILLE: Yes, 9.30 tomorrow morning,


Page 138


1 please.

2 (3.03 pm)

3 (Proceedings adjourned until

4 Thursday, 22nd June 2000 at 9.30 am)