1 Tuesday, 16th May 2000
2 (9.32 am)
3 LORD SAVILLE: Yes, Mr Clarke.
4 MR CLARKE: Could we have the document that
5 has just been added to the temporary documents bundle,
6 whose reference I have forgotten, 12 I am told: no,
7 that is the temporary statements bundle. When the
8 temporary documents bundle or its latest version is
9 circulated, there will be three substitute pages for
10 pages 13 to 15 of the appendix to report number 1, if
11 we look at the bottom half of the page, that corrects
12 and put into the right place the figure 12 in relation
13 to the shots of Soldier S and corrects the figure so
14 that the figures add up, so that one reaches a summary
15 of the 43 shots, one of which was ejected unfired by
16 Mortar Platoon on 30th January 1972. That has been
17 corrected.
18 I said yesterday we did not seem to have in
19 the bundle the statement of Inquiry 23. I was wrong
20 about that. If we could have a look in temporary
21 statement bundle number 11, we will find the statement
22 to this Inquiry of Inquiry number 23, the man who took
23 part in the television programme, 'A Tour of Duty' who
24 records in the first paragraph:
25 "1: Although I fired a live round on 30th
1 January 1972, I was never called to give evidence at
2 the Widgery Inquiry and consequently was never given a
3 letter like the other soldiers who fired that day."
4 If we may go to 11.7, he refers, in the
5 bottom half of the page, to the shot that he fired in
6 paragraph 42:
7 "I remember that I was on Pig sentry duty.
8 I remember I was near to the high flats somewhere on
9 the west side of Rossville Street. I cannot say
10 exactly where I was but I think I was north of the high
11 flats. I remember shots being fired and certainly one
12 round was fired at me, or in my general direction. The
13 fire seemed to be coming from block 1 of the flats ...
14 I could not tell what weapon was being used and I could
15 not see the person who fired it. However I had an idea
16 where it had come from. It was a natural reaction to
17 shoot back in a quick snap. I aimed up at the roof
18 because basically my perception was that the threat was
19 on the roof. I fired one aimed shot back, towards the
20 roof, at the approximate point marked B on the map."
21 That is very close to the north end of block
22 1 on the west side:
23 "I think someone else who was standing by
24 another Pig also fired but I cannot remember who that
25 was. In the film 'A Tour of Duty' I refer to shooting
1 at a window but I think I must have been confused
2 then. My recollection now is that I actually shot at
3 the parapet at the top of block 1 of the flat. I think
4 I probably hit concrete. The person who fired the shot
5 at me probably ducked. I did not see the actual shot
6 which was fired at me, I just heard the bang. I am
7 definite that a shot was fired at me."
8 If we go to the next paragraph 45 at the
9 bottom:
10 "I remember that I had to declare that
11 I fired a shot and I duly did so. No one ever asked me
12 again. I never made a statement; no one seemed to be
13 interested. When it came to giving evidence at Widgery
14 and others were going to give evidence, I was not going
15 to volunteer. I cannot recall who fired or how many
16 rounds they fired."
17 That is what he says is the position and we
18 will have to examine how that fits in with the 108
19 bullets account in the course of the evidence.
20 I return then to where I was when we
21 adjourned last night, which was referring to Father
22 Daly's evidence in relation to the shooting of Jack
23 Duddy and Michael Bridge after him. I interrupt for
24 the moment the evidence in relation to Jack Duddy
25 having got to that portion of Father Daly's evidence
1 that deals with Michael Bridge, to address the question
2 as to who shot Michael Bridge.
3 If one is looking for the shot which wounded
4 Michael Bridge and if he was shot by a soldier, then
5 if, as Father Daly's evidence suggests, he was shot
6 from the corner of block 1 by a kneeling soldier, then
7 Soldier Q is the most likely candidate because
8 Soldier Q's evidence was that he was firing from a
9 kneeling position at the north of block 1, but on his
10 account he only fired one shot which hit a man with a
11 nailbomb at the junction between blocks 2 and 3. There
12 are, in addition to Father Daly, other witnesses whose
13 evidence suggests that Michael Bridge was shot by a
14 soldier at the north of block 1. If we could look at
15 AD26.4, we will find the portion of the statement of
16 James Donal Deeney which we have looked at before for
17 other purposes. At paragraph 16, he says this:
18 "Whilst I was standing at Jack Duddy's body
19 Michael Bridge appeared. I do not know what direction
20 he came from. I knew Mickey Bridge. He had a
21 reputation as a street tough. He was about five years
22 older than me. I would have called him a 'greaser'.
23 Bridge made a run for the soldier who, I thought, had
24 probably shot Jack Duddy at point G on the attached
25 plan".
1 If one goes to AD26.9, one will find the
2 attached plan and point G on the attached plan is at
3 the very northeast end of block 1. If we go back to
4 26.4, he says this:
5 "Bridge may have been carrying a broken
6 bottle in his hands; I could not tell but his hands
7 were certainly forward of his body. Bridge was
8 shouting at the soldier and calling things out. He
9 moved to within three yards of the soldier to the point
10 I have marked M on the attached plan and I had moved
11 close to where he was standing to within one yard to
12 the left of him. Bridge was then shot by the soldier
13 who was standing at point G. He appeared to stiffen up
14 and seemed to be in a lot of pain. I think he was shot
15 in the leg. His mate then appeared and tried to drag
16 him away, but Bridge moved forward again to have
17 another go at the soldier. The soldier fired another
18 shot in Bridge's direction which I think hit him in the
19 stomach, as I remember seeing blood there (although
20 I since understand that Bridge was only hit by one
21 shot, which was in the leg)" that is true:
22 "The soldier who shot Bridge was standing up
23 at the time and was firing from the hip. He seemed
24 dead cocky as he was holding his gun and I cannot
25 remember any distinguishing features about him. The
1 impression I got at the time was that he could have
2 taken him out."
3 So this witness was, on his evidence, very
4 close, three yards -- closer than that, he was one yard
5 to the left of Michael Bridge. If we go back to the
6 map at 26.9, we will see that he places Michael Bridge
7 as having been at point M when he was shot and shot by
8 the soldier at the northeast end of block 1.
9 Another witness to the same effect, AB98.2,
10 is Patrick Brown. He saw Jack Duddy in the car park
11 and, as he says in paragraph 11:
12 "About the same time and slightly behind me
13 to my left, at the approximate point marked 2 on the
14 attached map was Mickey Bridge. I knew him as I used
15 to service his car. Mickey Bridge was screaming 'go
16 home your English bastards'. Whilst he was screaming
17 Mickey was waving his hands above his head. He was not
18 carrying anything in his hands. I noticed that there
19 was a big tall soldier standing at the northeastern
20 corner of block 1 ... at the approximate position
21 marked 3. I cannot recall any other details about this
22 soldier save that he was big and tall. He was looking
23 towards us into the car park of the Rossville flats.
24 I saw he had his rifle by his side pointing downwards.
25 The soldier then, without moving his upper arm, brought
1 the rifle up with his lower right arm to hip level and
2 shot at Mickey Bridge from the hip:
3 "12: Mickey was hit, I believe, in the right
4 hip. I think that the soldier who shot Mickey Bridge
5 must have been the soldier who shot Duddy as he was the
6 only one I saw."
7 If we go to the map 98.3, we will see that he
8 describes Mickey Bridge as being at point 2.
9 Unfortunately the 2 takes up rather a large space on
10 the map, but appears to be to the west of the back of
11 the Chamberlain Street houses which is in a different
12 position from that referred to by the previous
13 witness. The point 3 is, however, at the northeast
14 corner. May we then have temporary statement 51.1.
15 This is a statement of Paul Whoriskey and we can go to
16 51.2, where in paragraph 11, the second half of the
17 page, pick it up at the end of paragraph 10, he saw
18 Mickey Bridge standing in the car park of the Rossville
19 flats. In the last paragraph of 10, he says:
20 "I went out and stood next to Mickey Bridge,
21 possibly slightly behind him. I was standing in the
22 approximate position marked H on the attached plan."
23 The map is at 51.10 and he places all this as
24 happening, or Mickey Bridge as having been at the time
25 that he is speaking just to the south of
1 Chamberlain Street. If one goes back to 51.2, the
2 second half of the page he goes on to say this,
3 paragraph 11:
4 "All the while I could hear the sound of
5 shooting, but I was not sure whether or not it was the
6 soldier that I could see who was shooting. I was aware
7 of other soldiers to the north on the wasteground
8 between Rossville Street and Chamberlain Street and
9 I think I was also aware of Army vehicles in that
10 general area, but I cannot recall exactly where they
11 were as I could not take my eyes off the soldier
12 kneeling at the northern gable end of block 1 of the
13 block 1 of the Rossville flats. Mickey and I were
14 shouting 'stop shooting'. Mickey was extremely angry
15 and he shouted at the soldier 'shoot us you bastards'.
16 At this point the soldier stopped and aimed his rifle
17 at us. I thought to myself speak for yourself.
18 Suddenly a shot rang out. I felt it was aimed at both
19 of us and thought it was fired by the soldier at the
20 corner of the northern gable end of block 1 of the
21 Rossville flats. At that point Mickey went down and
22 I saw that he had been hit in the leg. There was just
23 a small puncture in his leg, high in the front of his
24 thigh. I cannot immediately recall whether it was his
25 right or his left thigh. However, it was only when
1 I was at the rear of 33 Chamberlain Street that
2 I noticed this. However, I am sure that Mickey was
3 shot in the leg and I am sure that particular soldier
4 shot him. Mickey fell on his back and I hit the deck.
5 Mickey's head was towards block 3 of the Rossville
6 flats and his feet towards block 1.
7 "12: I hit the deck next to him and then
8 grabbed him. Someone came over to help me. We managed
9 to get a shoulder each under Mickey's arms and carried
10 him over to the nearest house with an open door, which
11 was 33 Chamberlain Street."
12 So he also refers to fire from a soldier
13 kneeling at the north of block 1 and he says, like the
14 previous witness, that he was very close to
15 Michael Bridge but in a different spot of the map. If
16 we may have Am17.4, we will find -- AN17.4 -- a portion
17 of the statement of Joseph Alphonsus Nicholas which we
18 have looked at for other purposes before. He says at
19 paragraph 15:
20 "Suddenly a person came running across the
21 car park from its southeast corner towards where Jack
22 Duddy was. He passed to the east of Jack Duddy. He
23 was shouting at the Army and gesticulating with his
24 arms. He was shot in the thigh. He grabbed his leg
25 and dropped to the ground. I did not know who this man
1 was at the time, but I found out later it was
2 Michael Bridge. I could see his face quite clearly.
3 I believe he was shot by one of the two soldiers at
4 positions E and F, at the northeast corner of block 1.
5 My impression was that it was the soldier at point E
6 who shot Michael Bridge, i.e. the one who was
7 kneeling. Although I did not actually see anyone
8 shooting, I heard the shot, and I could tell where it
9 came from."
10 If one looks at the map which is at AN17.8,
11 he refers to two soldiers at point E and F -- it is
12 AN17.18. He refers to two soldiers at E and F and
13 thinks that it was a soldier kneeling at point E.
14 Lastly in this group, may we have AD65.4?
15 This is part of the statement of Gerard Doherty. At
16 paragraph 20, having described coming to the wall along
17 the north side of block 2 in the previous paragraph, he
18 says:
19 "I got on my hunches and at the same time
20 I saw Mickey Bridge stand up at point G. He was about
21 10 feet to my right as I faced southwards. I knew
22 Mickey and I recognised him straightaway. He was
23 facing northwards and threw his fists up in the air and
24 I cannot remember if he had a stone in his hand or
25 not. He was just standing there roaring at the Brits
1 and calling them all sorts of bastards. Then he
2 flinched and kind of hopped back holding his right
3 thigh. Everyone was standing up at this stage and the
4 shots had not stopped but it was only when Mickey
5 Bridge flinched that I realised they were actually
6 shooting into the car park. Shooting was going on all
7 the time. The shooting was louder than I had heard
8 before and it was the distinctive crack of an SLR, it
9 seemed to be right in my ear. I think about three or
10 four shots were fired and I instinctively knew that the
11 shots had come from Chamberlain Street:
12 "21: The nearest soldier as at point H,
13 about 400 yards from Mickey Bridge and there was no way
14 Mickey could have hit him with a stone. When he was
15 shot I instinctively looked to where Mickey was
16 looking. The soldier at point H was the only one there
17 and he was looking right at Mickey Bridge with his gun
18 up when Mickey Bridge got shot in the leg. He was
19 leaning against the side of the wall at the northern
20 end of block 1 of the Rossville flats near the door
21 into block 1. He had his rifle aimed and he seemed to
22 be left handed although I do not recall anything else
23 about him in particular. He was definitely a Para
24 though, wearing the Paras fatigues. This soldier was
25 the only one who could have shot Mickey Bridge as far
1 as I am concerned. This is a fairly narrow angle in
2 terms of the geography of the place. It was a very
3 narrow field of vision and this was the only soldier
4 I could see. I could also see part of a vehicle."
5 So he is describing a soldier at point H and
6 Mickey Bridge at point G. If we look at the map at
7 AD65.17, we will find the soldier at H is in the top
8 right-hand corner of block 1, the north eastern corner
9 and that G, spot G is just above the V of Rossville
10 flats on the plan. So there is a sizable volume of
11 evidence that puts Michael Bridge as having been shot
12 by a soldier at the northeast of block 1, either a
13 soldier who was kneeling, as several accounts state, or
14 one who is described -- or as being shot by somebody
15 who fired from the hip or, according to this last
16 evidence, someone who was leaning against the side of
17 the wall at the northeast end of the block.
18 On the other hand Mr Dunne's evidence to
19 Lord Widgery suggested that Michael Bridge was shot
20 from the back of Chamberlain Street by a standing
21 soldier who later fired down the alleyways between
22 blocks 1 and 2. If that is so and if Michael Bridge
23 was shot by a soldier, then on the evidence of the
24 soldiers given to Widgery, Soldier S would seem to be
25 the only candidate. His evidence, it will be recalled,
1 was that he believed he hit a gunman twice with the
2 twelve shots that he fired from the back of the
3 Chamberlain Street houses towards the junction between
4 blocks 1 and 2. Michael Bridge's own statement to this
5 Inquiry also suggests that he may have been shot by a
6 soldier at the back of the Chamberlain Street houses.
7 You will recall from yesterday that in his evidence to
8 this Tribunal, Mr Dunne now states that his impression
9 was that the soldier at the north end of block 1 of the
10 flats fired a shot and that soon after that a man, whom
11 he thinks was Michael Bridge fell down.
12 There is a second Michael Bridge, a cousin of
13 the wounded Michael Bridge, whose statement is at
14 AB83.1. He says at the fifth paragraph, I take it at
15 the fourth paragraph:
16 "The front door of my family's house looked
17 out on to the Rossville flats car park and its position
18 is marked A on the attached plan."
19 If you take it from me at the moment that is
20 at the -- close to the northeast end of block 1:
21 "As he was leaving the front door of my
22 house, I noticed Michael Bridge facing an isolated
23 soldier in the car park. Other than this, there was
24 little activity in the car park. I cannot now recall
25 whether I was immediately in front of the door of my
1 house or whether I had taken a couple of steps in
2 a southerly direction towards block 2 ... when I saw
3 him.
4 "5: Michael Bridge was standing to my right,
5 to the south in the Rossville flats' car park, in the
6 position marked B ... facing Chamberlain Street with
7 his arms in the air. He was standing still but
8 I cannot remember whether or not he was shouting.
9 I cannot now recall what he was wearing.
10 "6: The soldier was standing to my left, to
11 the north, between Rossville flats and the back of the
12 houses on Chamberlain Street at approximately the point
13 marked C."
14 If we look at 83.5, we can see the position
15 of B and C from the map. That has Michael Bridge at B,
16 which we can see quite far down the eastern side of
17 block 1 and the soldier that is being referred to at C,
18 which is just to the west of the back of the
19 Chamberlain Street houses.
20 Going back to 83.1, the second half of the
21 page, what he says, third line down in paragraph 6:
22 "I cannot remember what type of uniform the
23 soldier was wearing or whether he was wearing a
24 helmet. He either had his face blacked out or was a
25 black soldier. He was of average build. I cannot now
1 remember if I saw both the soldier and Michael Bridge
2 in one field of vision. However, if this was not the
3 case then it was barely a split second between seeing
4 the soldier and Michael Bridge.
5 "The soldier was holding his rifle at
6 shoulder level. He was pointing the rifle at
7 Michael Bridge. I stopped to watch for a couple of
8 seconds and saw the soldier shoot Michael Bridge. I
9 cannot recall seeing the flash from the gun or any
10 recoil. However, I heard a bang and I saw
11 Michael Bridge react to this since his posture changed
12 immediately. I believe he was hit in the leg, however,
13 I am not sure whether this is my own recollection of
14 events or whether it is a fact I learnt of after Bloody
15 Sunday. I did not know whether Michael Bridge had been
16 killed or not.
17 "8: I cannot recall whether I immediately
18 recognised the man I saw shot as Michael Bridge."
19 Then he refers to the fact that
20 Michael Bridge is a cousin whom he did not see much of
21 but he deduced that the man he saw was Michael Bridge,
22 "because I was told he had his arms in the air when he
23 was shot in a car park".
24 There is also some evidence that
25 Michael Bridge was shot by a soldier on the east side
1 of the sergeant's Pig, Pig number 2, and it may be that
2 between a description of someone being shot from the
3 east side of Pig number 2 and from the west side of the
4 Chamberlain Street houses, the wall at the back of the
5 Chamberlain Street houses, there is not a great deal of
6 difference. I take two examples. If we go to 36.1 we
7 will find the statement of William Harley, AH36.1.
8 William Harley was, on 30th January 1972 at home all
9 day with his wife and four children, and home was at 37
10 Donagh Place in block 2, his flat being in the centre
11 of block 2 on the top floor. He describes seeing the
12 body of Jack Duddy. If we go to 36.3, at paragraph 18
13 he says:
14 "I next recall seeing a young man with his
15 hands in the air walking north across the car park,
16 from near the body at point E towards the armoured car
17 at point B. He got to within ten yards of the armoured
18 car and, as he stood still at point F, I heard him
19 shout 'are you going to shoot us all? Shoot me, you
20 bastards'. One soldier on the eastern side of the
21 armoured car at point B - possibly leaning on the
22 bonnet - raised his rifle and shot him in the leg.
23 I do not know if it was the same soldier I had seen
24 shooting earlier. If it was, he was now on the other
25 side of the armoured car. I could see that the soldier
1 had fired at him because there was a small jolt of his
2 rifle after which the young man fell down. Two or
3 three people ran out (I think from block 1 ...) and
4 picked him up and he was dragged hopping towards the
5 southern end of Chamberlain Street. At that point,
6 I stopped looking out of the bedroom window into the
7 car park of the Rossville flats."
8 Point E is where he says the body was. The
9 armoured car is at point E and Michael Bridge was shot
10 at point F. If we look at the map at 36.14, we can see
11 where those all are.
12 The armoured car is put at point B, which is
13 indeed roughly the spot at which it appears on the
14 photograph. Michael Bridge at point F and on this
15 evidence he was shot by somebody on the east side of
16 the Pig, that must be somewhere approximately where the
17 arrow that I put on the screen is.
18 May we then look at AB10.1 where is to be
19 found the statement to this Tribunal of Hugh Barber who
20 was 16 and a half at the time of Bloody Sunday and
21 lived in the Creggan Heights. If we go to AB10.3, he
22 deals with the shooting of Michael Bradley and also
23 Michael Bridge. At paragraph 18 he deals with shooting
24 at Michael Bridge where he says this:
25 "I knew Mickey Bridge, but not well. He had
1 something of a reputation at the time as a bit of a
2 hard man. I could see from my position on the second
3 floor that he had a piece of wood. He was furious and
4 was full of aggression. He made a go for the soldier
5 on the opposite side of the Pig to the soldier who had
6 shot Mickey Bradley. He was shouting 'bastards.
7 Fucking bastards'.
8 "19: Then he was shot by the soldier he was
9 aiming for. I saw him hit. It was an amazing thing to
10 see. He was shot and still kept going for the
11 soldier. His adrenaline seemed to keep him going.
12 Several people dragged him but he seemed stronger. He
13 broke away from them two or three times. He had to be
14 physically dragged away. I cannot remember where
15 exactly he was shot. He was just shot.
16 "20: I cannot clearly remember where he was
17 when he was hit but I would say that it was around the
18 area that has been marked C on photograph 1 and point G
19 on the attached map."
20 The attached map is at AB10.11 and that is
21 just above the R of Rossville flats on the plan.
22 Lieutenant N is a possible candidate as someone who
23 shot Michael Bridge because of the similarity of his
24 description of where his shot landed; he thought it
25 landed in the right thigh, with the actual site of
1 Michael Bridge's injury, which is the left thigh and
2 because his firing was in the same general area or his
3 target was in the same general area as that in which
4 Michael Bridge is placed by some of the witnesses, it
5 was N, one recalls, who said that he fired at somebody
6 with what he took to be a nailbomb coming round the
7 corner of number 36 Chamberlain Street, the last house
8 in the street on the west hand side. It is possible,
9 on his account, that R, soldier R could be a candidate,
10 in this sense: that he said he fired after coming round
11 the corner of block 1 at a man who ran out from block 1
12 making to throw a smoking object which was in his
13 hand. But soldier R was not kneeling and, in any
14 event, according to him, he hit the man high on the
15 shoulder.
16 There is a remarkable photograph which we
17 will see at P740, taken by Sam Gillespie which is said
18 to show the crowd around Jack Duddy and Michael Bridge
19 running berserk away from the body towards the soldiers
20 on the right-hand side of the photograph, but Mr Bridge
21 denies that he is the person on the far right of the
22 picture as he clearly remembers, so he says, that only
23 two or three people were bent over Jack Duddy at the
24 time that he was shot. But if we go to the next
25 photograph at 741, there is a photograph that Mr Bridge
1 says does show him, it is a photograph we have seen for
2 other purposes before, he appears on the left-hand side
3 of the photograph. He says that this photograph was
4 taken at about the time when he had seen Jack Duddy and
5 was turning towards the soldier he believed was
6 responsible for shooting Duddy, and we can see in the
7 photograph that there is at least one soldier at the
8 northeast of block 1, not kneeling in this photograph
9 at this stage. There are in addition other soldiers,
10 at least two, around what is plainly Pig number 2.
11 There is also at least one person at the southwest
12 gable end of Chamberlain Street.
13 We ought to look at AB84.6 where we will find
14 the two paragraphs of Mr Bridge's statement that are
15 relevant for this purpose. What he says is at
16 paragraph 40:
17 "I have been shown photograph number 50 which
18 is attached to this statement." That is the second
19 photograph that I showed you:
20 "This is definitely me. I believe that this
21 was taken at about the time when I had seen Jack Duddy
22 and was turning towards the soldier I believed was
23 responsible for shooting him.
24 "41: Another photograph is attached to this
25 statement," that is the one I first showed you:
1 "It has been suggested to me that I am the
2 person wearing the parka coat in the far right of that
3 picture. I am sure that that is not me because my very
4 clear recollection is that only two or three people
5 were bent over Jack Duddy at the time that I was shot.
6 "42: At the time I was shot I was wearing a
7 green anorak and grey flannel trousers.
8 "43: I want to stress that I cannot see any
9 way in which the soldier who shot me could have
10 perceived me as a threat. My hands were empty and this
11 must have been obvious."
12 There is other civilian evidence as to the
13 wounding of Michael Bridge, but I propose to postpone
14 any further consideration of that until I come to
15 consider the wounded in this sector and to revert to
16 the mainstream of what I was dealing with, namely, the
17 death of Jack Duddy.
18 In his evidence to Lord Widgery Father Daly
19 described how, after the shooting of Michael Bridge two
20 men appeared behind Father Daly and Charles Glen, the
21 Knight of Malta who appeared. One of them was William
22 Barber, a telephone engineer; the other was probably,
23 certainly may have been, Liam Bradley. Mr Barber told
24 Father Daly that there was no point in bringing the boy
25 back towards the flats because the telephone kiosk
1 there was out of order and there was a better chance of
2 getting an ambulance if he was carried to
3 Harvey Street. Meanwhile there was sporadic gunfire in
4 bursts of a fraction of a second and Father Daly said
5 between three and six shots were heard to have been
6 fired by him -- heard by him to have been fired.
7 Father Daly also said that as they were about
8 to get up, a man in his twenties with a brown jacket
9 moved along the gable end of the house at the end of
10 Chamberlain Street. That man suddenly produced a
11 handgun from his right hand pocket and fired two or
12 three shots at soldiers around the corner of the gable
13 end on the west hand side of Chamberlain Street.
14 Father Daly screamed at the man to go away, being
15 frightened that the soldiers might think that the shots
16 were being fired from Father Daly's direction. This
17 gunman can be seen in the footage in Channel 4's
18 documentary 'Secret History of Bloody Sunday' and also
19 in the documentary "Remember Bloody Sunday". Could we
20 see if we can summon up video 7, 24.54? This is the
21 wrong reference. Can we look at P5.561. P5.561 is
22 a still photograph, not very good in hard copy and not
23 as good on the screen, but nonetheless visible, of what
24 is said to be the gunman. The reason that we have this
25 simply as a still from the video is that we have not
1 yet located either a print or much less a negative of
2 this photograph, though it appears in the documentaries
3 themselves. There appears on screen what is plainly a
4 camera shot of the photograph.
5 Others apart from Father Daly also saw this
6 gunman. Mr Dunne was one of them. In his evidence to
7 Lord Widgery -- we need not turn it up -- the reference
8 is Day 8, page 24, he said that he saw what is
9 presumably the same gunman whom he described as being
10 about 50-ish although he could not swear to that,
11 moving from one end of the gable to another.
12 In his statement to this Tribunal at
13 AD173.27, paragraph 22 Mr Dunne says this:
14 "I wanted to get out of the car park quickly
15 and decided to go through the gap between blocks 1 and
16 2 of the Rossville flats. Before I went through the
17 gap I saw a man on the gable end of Chamberlain Street
18 at point L on the attached map," that is on the
19 southwest gable end:
20 "He was aged about 50 years with
21 distinguished silvery grey hair. He was wearing a long
22 dark coat (below knee length) which was either a
23 Crombie or a raincoat. He had his back against the
24 gable end of Chamberlain Street and his right arm
25 extended out towards block 1. The impression I had was
1 that he had a handgun in his right hand and he was
2 edging along the wall towards block 1. I did not see
3 him fire any shots and I did not see the soldiers
4 firing at this time. He was, however, very close to
5 the soldiers. I remember thinking that he was the
6 double of someone I knew called Sean Reddan, although
7 I knew it was not him." And he identifies --:
8 "Attached as attachment 3 is a copy
9 photograph of a man, but this is not the man I saw."
10 If we look at AD173.41, we will see the
11 photograph to which he is referring. That photograph
12 is one of the photographs taken by Mr Peress and it
13 shows a man close to the group of Father Daly and Jack
14 Duddy. It is not at all clear what it is that the man
15 has in his hands and the question has arisen as to
16 whether or not that is any form of weapon.
17 There is a witness who thinks that that
18 person may be him, and I think there are some other
19 witnesses who also identify who he is, but the person
20 whom they identify him to be is not the person who says
21 that that is a photograph of him. So there is
22 presently a mystery as to who exactly that man is and
23 what it is that he is doing. I am told that we can now
24 look at the relevant image on video 7.
25 (Video played).
1 We believe, though we are not certain, that
2 the photograph which we have now seen in hard copy and
3 as photographed on the video, was a photograph taken by
4 Fulvio Grimaldi, but although we have a number of
5 Mr Grimaldi's photographs we do not have, as I say, the
6 hard copy or a negative of that one: there are a number
7 of witnesses who saw the gunman in question in addition
8 to Father Daly, but I do not think for present purposes
9 it is necessary to look at their testimony, but
10 accounts of what they saw may be found in the evidence
11 of Donal Deeney, paragraph 19; James Norris, reference
12 AN20, paragraph 17 and William Harley at paragraph 30
13 at AH36.
14 There is another account of a civilian gunman
15 firing up Chamberlain Street. If we take AG38.1, we
16 will see the statement of Bernard Joseph Gilmore, one
17 of the brothers of Hugh Gilmore who died on Bloody
18 Sunday. He was at the bedroom window of his mother's
19 flat on the first floor of block 2 looking out on to
20 the car park. If we look at AG38.7, we will find a
21 mark as to where that was, X marks the spot, it is
22 three flats in from the west in block 2 at the first
23 verandah. If we go back to AG38.4, at paragraph 24,
24 the second half of the page, he says this:
25 "I also noticed a civilian gunman in the
1 market. He was near Chamberlain Street." In the
2 market he is obviously referring to the car park by
3 which and the car park was from time to time referred
4 to as the market because there had been previously a
5 market there. He was near Chamberlain Street.
6 "I saw him after Jack Duddy had been shot.
7 I know who he was. He was a big tall fellow wearing a
8 mask. He was standing with his back to the wall near
9 Chamberlain Street, at the position marked K on the
10 attached map."
11 The position marked K appears at AG38.10. It
12 is on the south-eastern corner of the south western
13 gable end of Chamberlain Street. If we go back to
14 AN20.45.
15 20.4, paragraph 17, the third line:
16 "He had something in his hand which I think
17 was a small revolver. I do not know how old he was and
18 all I remember about him was that he was wearing some
19 sort of brown trench coat. The coat length was just
20 below his knee, double breasted with a belt and was
21 fastened up. He always sticks out in my mind because
22 he was on his own at this wall. He was at the
23 Rossville Street side of the gable wall and he had his
24 right arm outstretched to the right. I think that his
25 arm may have been sticking out beyond the gable end,
1 slightly into the wasteground. I did not see him
2 shoot. I did not notice anything on the other gable
3 end. I saw him leave the gable end and cross the
4 Rossville flats car park towards block 2 taking the
5 route as shown on the attached map."
6 LORD GIFFORD: Excuse me, sir, I thought we
7 were on the evidence of Bernard Gilmore. This is the
8 evidence of someone beginning with N who I think is
9 Norris.
10 MR CLARKE: I am sorry, you are quite right.
11 Yes, AG38.4, we have gone back to the wrong, can we
12 have AG38.4. The bottom of the page:
13 "I also noticed a civilian gunman in the
14 market. He was near Chamberlain Street. I saw him
15 after Jack Duddy had been shot. I know who he was; he
16 was a big tall fellow wearing a mask. He was standing
17 with his back to the wall near Chamberlain Street at
18 the position marked K on the attached map," that was
19 the map we were looking at and it is to this paragraph
20 we should have reverted:
21 "He was holding a handgun in his hand and was
22 standing against the wall of the houses on
23 Chamberlain Street. He put his hand around the wall
24 and fired some shots along Chamberlain Street. He
25 could not see who he was aiming at because he was
1 facing block 2 of the Rossville flats, but with his
2 hand pointing up Chamberlain Street. I am not sure
3 where this man had come from, but I am fairly certain
4 he was in the group of men who had surrounded Jack
5 Duddy. I think he had then walked up towards
6 Chamberlain Street and fired the shots. He was pulled
7 away by a group of people. I recall that as he was
8 shooting along Chamberlain Street, soldiers were coming
9 down in that direction towards the market. However,
10 the man did not look and aim; he simply fired a few
11 shots around the corner."
12 So this witness, in contra-distinction to a
13 number of others, refers to a gunman at the southwest
14 gable end but firing up into Chamberlain Street as
15 opposed to firing into the Rossville flats car park.
16 The Sunday Times Insight team reported that
17 they had spoken to the man in question and that he was
18 a member of the Creggan section of the Official IRA.
19 Eamon McCann also spoke to the man in question. If we
20 look at temporary statement 52.5 we will see at
21 paragraph 34 that he is to say this:
22 "Although there was no concerted activity
23 organised by the IRA in the Bogside on that Sunday, I
24 am aware that there were at least two gunmen in the
25 area. For example, I know that Father Daly saw a man
1 armed with a pistol at the south end of
2 Chamberlain Street. I know that gunman because I spoke
3 to him after Bloody Sunday in my capacity as a
4 journalist and had an interview with him. His
5 explanation was that he had taken the gun on the march
6 for his personal protection but that he had lost his
7 temper when the Paras started shooting and had taken
8 out his gun in anger and fired a shot.
9 "35: As far as I am aware, there were only
10 two gunmen in the area and I understand that six shots
11 were fired by the Official IRA in the Bogside on Bloody
12 Sunday, but that none of those shots were fired before
13 the Paras opened fire.
14 "36: I have also spoken to the other gunman
15 who was in the area at the relevant time."
16 We do not presently know who is the other
17 gunman who is being referred to or what activity, if
18 any, that other gunman carried out. But it is possible
19 that this is a reference to something that is referred
20 to in the statement of Thomas Wilson. If we look at
21 temporary statement bundle 39.4 at paragraph 25 he
22 refers to shots coming down Chamberlain Street towards
23 the flats. At paragraph 26 he refers to a crowd of
24 about 30 people in the northeast corner of the
25 Rossville flats car park.
1 "There was a large wall to the east of that
2 corner which ran from that corner three quarters of the
3 way along block 3 ... about 30 people were huddled in
4 the corner for cover.
5 "27: At about the same time, three or four
6 men were standing against the south-eastern gable end
7 of Chamberlain Street (at the point marked H). They
8 could not move because of the shots coming out of
9 Chamberlain Street and the troops by then were in
10 Chamberlain Street."
11 To see where he is referring to one needs to
12 look at 39.10. That shows that what he is talking
13 about is the men at the point marked H on the
14 south-eastern gable end of Chamberlain Street. If one
15 goes back to 39.4, he says at 28:
16 "I think the men at the point marked H were
17 middle-aged, they were certainly older than I was. One
18 had something in his hands which I believed at the time
19 was a pistol, although I cannot now say categorically
20 that it was. If it was a revolver and he was going to
21 fire, I could not see at whom or what. I do not
22 believe that he would have intended to shoot up
23 Chamberlain Street as there were soldiers there taking
24 up firing positions. If he had fired at those
25 soldiers, I have no doubt that he would have been
1 dead.
2 "29: I think the man was heading for the
3 southern end of Chamberlain Street when he was pulled
4 back by the other two or three men in the group. He
5 was wearing a longish coat, I think he had grey hair,
6 but it could have been a cap. It was difficult to see,
7 there was a lot of gas around. The other men pulled
8 him away to the alleyway between blocks 2 and 3 of the
9 Rossville flats.
10 "30: In addition, there was a man on his own
11 with his back to the south western gable end of
12 Chamberlain Street. I saw him quite early in the melee
13 after the crowd was coming up Chamberlain Street. He
14 was not the same fellow that had been moved away by the
15 group. I cannot recall now whether he was there before
16 or after that took place. I cannot say what he was
17 doing. He just should not have been there. I do not
18 know how he came to be standing where he was."
19 So this appears to be a reference to a man
20 with a pistol, what was believed to be a pistol, on the
21 opposite gable end of the south end of
22 Rossville Street. After the gunman appeared and the
23 events which we have seen Father Daly describe took
24 place, Father Daly decided to make a dash for it, first
25 on his knees. He waved a handkerchief. There was a
1 burst of gunfire and their group lay down again.
2 Eventually that group got up and the body was carried
3 up Chamberlain Street, right into Harvey Street and
4 then into Waterloo Street where Mr Barber took off his
5 coat and Jack Duddy's body was laid down on it.
6 At the corner of Chamberlain and
7 Harvey Street the party met Mr Bierman and Mr Cave of
8 the BBC and a patrol of soldiers, and we saw that on
9 the actuality BBC video before Easter. An ambulance
10 was called by a lady who lived in the vicinity. A
11 series of photographs -- may we look at P631 -- show
12 the passage of Jack Duddy's body from the Rossville
13 flats car park to Chamberlain Street and Harvey Street;
14 the one we are presently looking at now is by now a
15 very famous photograph. 632 shows the party coming up
16 Chamberlain Street and turning into Harvey Street with
17 Father Daly leading the way and soldiers around.
18 633 shows the party going up Harvey Street.
19 You can see the hill as they climb it. 634 has them
20 very nearly reaching Waterloo Street at the top. 629
21 shows Jack Duddy on the ground in what I believe is
22 Waterloo Street at the top of Harvey Street. The scene
23 that I have described was in part witnessed by soldiers
24 in A Company of the 2nd Royal Green Jackets. If we
25 look at C831.2, we will find the evidence of Inquiry
1 witness 831 who was -- 831.1 -- as paragraph 2 shows a
2 Lance Corporal in the 2nd Platoon of A Company. If we
3 go to A831.3 he recalls, paragraph 15, that at a time
4 that he is not sure about:
5 "A radio call came in from one of our
6 platoons near Waterloo Street. They said that there
7 was a priest approaching with a body and they wanted
8 Major unknown 75 to go to talk to him. I told Major
9 unknown 75 about this and he told me to accompany him.
10 He went south along Waterloo Street to where the other
11 Platoon was, which was I think Castle Gate. I remember
12 seeing the priest coming uphill and round a corner
13 waving a white handkerchief. I cannot remember the
14 name of the priest but I know that he is now the Bishop
15 of Londonderry." That is obviously Father Daly.
16 "16: I think that he wanted to get through
17 Castle Gate. He was accompanied by a group of people
18 who were carrying a body. I did not know whether the
19 person was dead or was simply wounded. Major unknown
20 75 went to talk to him. I stayed back, but from what
21 I could see, the conversation seemed quite
22 acrimonious. I was too far away, however, to hear what
23 was said. I think I also may have turned around to
24 talk to somebody else at one stage."
25 If we turn then to C954.3, we will -- this is
1 the statement of rifleman Inquiry number 954 who was in
2 A Company of the 2nd Royal Green Jackets who was
3 manning the barrier on Waterloo Street. At paragraph
4 20 of his statement to this Tribunal, he says this:
5 "Again, I am not sure of the exact sequence
6 of events, but around that time I saw civilians
7 carrying an injured person. It was before the Paras
8 were deployed and became involved, but maybe I am wrong
9 about that." I think he must be:
10 "I was standing at the barrier in
11 Waterloo Street. I saw a body being carried east out
12 of Harvey Street or High Street. It was then brought
13 forward, towards the barricade.
14 "21: The body was laid down about 20 yards
15 in front of our barricade. There were about six or
16 eight people with the body. I think they knelt down
17 and said prayers over the body as it lay there. There
18 were not many other people in Waterloo Street then.
19 "I could not see the body well enough to see
20 whether it was male or female. My impression was that
21 the person was already dead. There was no attempt made
22 to bring the body through our barricade. Some people
23 came up to the barricade and accused one of the lads in
24 our section of shooting the person. I think they were
25 accusing soldier 141, who was there with the rest of
1 us, but I could not say for sure. Lieutenant unknown
2 96 was brought forward (I do not know where he was
3 before that) and the civilians made their accusations
4 again. The Lieutenant looked into the soldier's rifle
5 to see that it was cleared and that there was nothing
6 in the spout. He also checked the rifle and made sure
7 that it had not been fired. He gave the rifle back to
8 the soldier and told the civilians in no uncertain
9 terms to get on their bike.
10 "23: Far as I knew they took the body away
11 again. I do not know what they had hoped to achieve.
12 We were sure that there had not been any firing that
13 day that could have caused the death. By then we had
14 only heard the occasional shot and I do not recall
15 having heard any return fire and we did not believe
16 that the military were involved in the death.
17 I remember that someone jokingly said that they must
18 have got the body out of the freezer."
19 I only refer to these paragraphs because in
20 some of the papers that one sees a rumour seems to have
21 begun to circulate that the IRA, or somebody
22 sympathetic to them, had brought out a body of a dead
23 person who had not been killed on Bloody Sunday and had
24 placed it in the streets. It looks very much as if
25 this is the genesis of the rumour and an illustration
1 of how wildly inaccurate rumours circulate. What looks
2 as if it happened was that Jack Duddy who was of course
3 shot in the Rossville flats is brought up to
4 Waterloo Street. If the evidence in the preceding
5 paragraphs is correct, a series of people accused the
6 soldiers at Waterloo Street of having shot him perhaps,
7 it is only speculation, but it may be sensible
8 speculation, because they saw the body and they saw the
9 soldiers and connected one with the other.
10 The soldiers at the barrier knew they had not
11 shot anybody and they certainly had not shot Jack
12 Duddy. Somebody jokingly says that they must have got
13 the body out of the freezer and a rumour builds up that
14 the IRA on the day, or their associates or the like,
15 had been putting bodies who were not shot out on to the
16 streets. It is usually impossible to trace how wild
17 rumours begin, but this rather looks as if it is an
18 instance in which one can find the very circumstances
19 in which it arose.
20 Father Daly waited for an ambulance and after
21 accepting a cup of tea from a local resident went back
22 down Fahan Street East, down the steps to Joseph Place
23 where he saw a number of people dead or seriously
24 wounded and administered the last rites to them and
25 witnessed attempts to get the bodies to the ambulance
1 and how those attempts were halted when firing broke
2 out and Father Mulvey had to come forward and wave his
3 hanky, as we have seen at soldiers to the north.
4 In his evidence Father Daly said that he was
5 not aware of any gunfire coming from the Rossville
6 flats when he was in the car park; that he did not hear
7 any nailbomb explosions and was not aware of the
8 throwing of things from the flats. There were a number
9 of witnesses who gave evidence to Lord Widgery who said
10 that before Jack Duddy was shot they had heard no
11 shooting, including Mrs Duffy and Mrs Bonner and
12 Charles Glen, the Knight of Malta.
13 It may be useful to record who are the
14 witnesses who say that they were very close to Jack
15 Duddy when he was shot. One was Father Daly, whose
16 evidence we have looked at in extenso. One is a
17 witness called Christy Lavery at AL5.2 we will find his
18 statement to this Tribunal where, at paragraph 9 he
19 says this:
20 "I decided to make my escape by running into
21 the Rossville flats car park and passing between the
22 gap between block 1 and block 2. I had run as far as
23 the point marked B on the map," point B on the map is
24 approximately where the Pig number 2 appears in the
25 photograph where that Pig appears alone at the entrance
1 to the car park:
2 "I had run as far as the point marked B on
3 the map and I came abreast of a young man whom I now
4 know to be Jack Duddy. At the time I did not know who
5 he was. He was a few yards west of me to my right and
6 perhaps one pace in front of me. I cannot be precise
7 about where we both were at the instant that Jack Duddy
8 was shot, but I would guess that we were somewhere
9 within grid L15, but perhaps nearer the point C on the
10 map.
11 "10: I did not hear a shot, but I saw a gush
12 of blood coming out of the left-hand side of Jack
13 Duddy's chest. I saw him crumple and fall to the
14 ground landing on his face, with his head pointing
15 towards the alleyway between blocks 1 and 2 and his
16 feet towards the wasteground. His arms were spread out
17 at rightangles to his body and I could see that he had
18 a stone in his right hand." Then he describes running
19 over to him and lifting him up.
20 The map attached to his statement is at
21 AL5.7. The point C that he describes as where Duddy
22 fell, one can see is in the car park at a spot
23 approximately level with the midway point of block 1.
24 Another witness in the same category is Brian
25 Johnston whose statement for these purposes is at AJ9.5
1 at paragraph 18:
2 "As I ran from the gap at point E into the
3 courtyard of the Rossville flats (heading towards the
4 alleyway between blocks 2 and 3) I heard gunfire from
5 behind me. There was a short volley of shots. I think
6 I had heard two or three shots before I saw, out of the
7 corner of my eye, a lad fall face forward to the
8 ground. After he fell, I think there was a short
9 period of silence. I was at the point marked BJ on the
10 photograph when I saw the lad fall. He was at the
11 point marked JD." The photograph in question is
12 AJ9.8. One can see there that he describes himself as
13 being at JD -- he describes himself at being at BJ and
14 the place where Jack Duddy fell as at JD, which is very
15 similar to the description given by Father Daly of
16 being three or four lines in on the car park marking
17 which we see on the photograph.
18 If we go back to 9.5, at paragraph 19:
19 "The lad, who I now know to be Jack Duddy had
20 been running from the wasteground by Pilot Row into the
21 Rossville flats courtyard at the tail end of a small
22 group. He had become isolated and fallen a little
23 behind. I remember also seeing the black gabardine of
24 the priest flapping as he was running a couple of yards
25 ahead of the lad (at the point marked FD on the
1 photograph) I now know the priest was Father Daly.
2 Realised at once that the gunfire was high velocity
3 live rounds. They have a high pitched crack. Those
4 were the first shots I heard that day. Even though
5 I had heard the high velocity shots as I went across to
6 the fellow lying on the ground to see what I could do,
7 for some reason I expected him to have been shot by a
8 rubber bullet. Death was not in my mind at the time.
9 I was the first person to reach Jack Duddy. He was
10 lying face down on the ground. His feet were pointing
11 towards Rossville Street. His head down towards the
12 southeast corner of the Rossville flats car park.
13 I took the fellow by the right shoulder and raised his
14 shoulder about two feet off the ground. There was a
15 huge amount of blood coming from the chest area. There
16 appeared to be an open wound. I saw the fellow's right
17 hand opening. Inside there was a pebble the size of a
18 bead. I remember thinking 'my God, did you think you
19 were going to take on the mighty British Army with a
20 pebble' I have since thought about it and believe the
21 pebble must have been scooped up into his hand as
22 I fell. I do not believe I saw his left-hand which
23 would have been under his body as I lifted him.
24 I forget the other details, but I have a very clear
25 recollection of lifting the body."
1 Another witness who was close to Duddy when
2 he was shot is Liam Bradley he also says that he was
3 the first to reach him. If we look at AB61 -- we have
4 looked at it before, we have seen his statement to that
5 effect a little earlier yesterday.
6 Another witness who said that he was very
7 close to Duddy when he was shot is Sean Eugene
8 O'Neill. We will come to his evidence in another
9 connection below. Another one was, according to the
10 account which Father Daly gave to Lord Widgery, a man
11 Barber whom Father Daly said to Lord Widgery -- Father
12 Daly told Lord Widgery that Mr Barber told him that it
13 was he, Mr Barber, who turned Jack Duddy over. Lastly,
14 -- penultimately, the witness called Patrick Joseph
15 Harkin was very close to Jack Duddy, though he did not
16 in fact see him shot.
17 Lastly, James Donal Deeney, his evidence on
18 this topic appears at AD26.3 in paragraph 14, where he
19 says this after referring to reaching the entrance to
20 the car park, at paragraph 14:
21 "At this point my memory becomes vague as to
22 precisely what happened next and in what sequence.
23 I seem to remember that the people were staying in the
24 car park as if they were waiting for the riot to
25 continue. I thought that people might now try to enter
1 the car park from Rossville Street. The atmosphere was
2 very much one of wait and see. I turned from my
3 position at point J in an arch to the entrance way of
4 the car park. I think that I may have been trying to
5 rally people together. Something must have startled
6 me, and I then turned around and ran south across the
7 car park to the point marked. As I was running I do
8 not remember aiming for anywhere in particular. A boy,
9 who I now know to be Jack Duddy, was running slightly
10 in front of me and to my right. Jackie Duddy wore dark
11 lightly clad clothing. He was in the same bunch of
12 people as me. He would have been about a yard or two
13 away from me and we were both facing south. I think
14 that we may have both ran past a soldier as we ran
15 through the car park from the entrance way. I then saw
16 Duddy shot almost in front of me. He fell over
17 immediately on to his face. His head was pointing to
18 block 2 and his feet to the entrance of the car park.
19 I stopped up short, if I had not I would have tripped
20 over him. I do not recall hearing the shot that hit
21 Duddy. I stopped and looked at him for 5 or 10
22 seconds. Blood was coming out of his chest area. I
23 cannot recall hearing any shots before Duddy was shot.
24 There seemed to be a lull between Duddy being shot and
25 the people in the car park starting to flee. I knew
1 that he was dead or about to die."
2 The Knight of Malta whom we see in the
3 photographs of the group surrounding Jack Duddy is
4 Charles Glen. If we look at AG43.10, we will find the
5 NICRA statement made by him contemporaneously. It is a
6 long statement which I do not propose to go into at
7 this stage in detail, but in it he describes a youth
8 being knocked down by an APC which entered the
9 courtyard, shouting -- he describes himself shouting at
10 a Paratrooper who was hitting on old man, being hit by
11 a rifle butt to the chest and as he fell hearing a shot
12 close by on his left and seeing Duddy, who had by then
13 fallen to the ground. He also describes subsequent
14 rough treatment and insults at the hands of the
15 Paratroopers or the Military Police, the theft of his
16 respirator cap and web belt and the removal of some of
17 his uniform and being taken to a maintenance base,
18 which sounds clearly like Fort George, and being hit in
19 the stomach with a rifle and beaten about the shoulders
20 and made to run a gauntlet of Paratroopers beating him
21 with rifles.
22 What I propose to do is to take his statement
23 to this Tribunal at AG43.3 at paragraph 21, where he
24 says this: he refers in the previous paragraph to an
25 armoured vehicle parked close to him at a point marked
1 C. What he says at 20, the third line is this:
2 "It parked with its rear door facing the
3 Rossville flats and the front cabin facing towards
4 William Street. Paras piled out of this vehicle -
5 I remember one Para carried a submachine gun and the
6 rest were armed with rifles."
7 The point marked C on the attached map
8 appears at AG43.13 and is further to the north of the
9 spot where Sergeant O's Pig stopped as we can see from
10 the photograph. In addition Sergeant O's Pig was, as
11 we can see from the photographs, facing not to the
12 north but to the south at the entrance of the Rossville
13 flats car park. If we go back to AG43.3, at paragraph
14 21, he says:
15 "I saw the first two Paras jump out of the
16 rear of the vehicle which was parked at point C. I was
17 then distracted as one of the Paras grabbed an elderly
18 man who was standing very close to me by the neck and
19 started hitting him with his rifle. The Para was
20 holding his rifle by the butt and bringing the barrel
21 down repeatedly on the man's head. The elderly man was
22 quite tall and wore an overcoat of some sort. He had
23 grey hair and looked as though he was in his 60s. The
24 Para may have been shorter than the older man.
25 "22: I did not think that the older man had
1 done anything to deserve such treatment and I thought
2 that the Para was going to kill him. I recall shouting
3 at the para 'I order you to stop'. As I said this the
4 Para threw the old man to one side and aimed his rifle
5 at me. I thought he was threatening me. Then very
6 quickly another Para who I thought for some reason had
7 some type of authority and who came from the same
8 vehicle hit me in the chest with the butt of his rifle
9 and I fell back to the ground and felt quite dazed.
10 "23: Immediately after this I heard a shot
11 being fired from what I thought was an SLR. I think it
12 was fired from the vicinity of Eden Place, however
13 I was lying down at the time and I was not in the best
14 position to say.
15 "24: I recall reading in the Widgery report
16 that soldiers at Pilot Row said they saw dirt shooting
17 up from the ground around them indicating they were
18 being fired on. When I was in this position next to
19 the soldier I did not see this.
20 "25: I then heard people calling to me.
21 I am not sure whether this was before or after I got up
22 from the ground. Once they saw me looking around the
23 area, a group of people beckoned me over and I gathered
24 that someone was down. The group was positioned at
25 point D on the attached map. I probably ran across the
1 wasteground in a south westerly direction to reach the
2 group. I recall passing a soldier standing by the
3 north stairwell of block 1 of the Rossville flats, but
4 I cannot recall any other people in that area.
5 "26: At point D I think that there were
6 about three or four people kneeling or crouching beside
7 the body of a young man. I noticed that the casualty
8 was lying on his back unconscious and had lost a lot of
9 blood. I searched for the entry wound and saw that he
10 had been shot in the left collar bone. I propped up
11 the body on several occasions to try and find out if
12 I could find the exit wound which I found in the middle
13 of his back. On examination I concluded that the wound
14 was fatal and there was nothing I could do for him.
15 I covered the wound with a bandage although by this
16 stage the wound was not even bleeding. I thought that
17 the youth had already died by the time I arrived at the
18 scene, however I was not suitably qualified to make
19 this assessment.
20 "27: The people surrounding the man's body
21 included Father Daly and people who I now know as Liam
22 Bradley, Hugh McMonagle and another person whom I did
23 not know." Then he says he did not know but
24 subsequently discovered that this was Jack Duddy.
25 Another eyewitness to the death but not the
1 shooting of Jack Duddy is Mrs Mary Bonner who was the
2 sister of Hugh Gilmore and who lived at 34 Garden Place
3 on the second floor of block 2. She was looking from
4 the verandah towards the car park and saw the crowd
5 running into the flats, so she recalled two APCs behind
6 them. If we take Widgery transcript, Day 5, page 38,
7 we will see in her own words what she described as
8 happening, the second half of the page, E:
9 "Question: Tell my Lord what it is you
10 saw?
11 Answer: Well, I was on the verandah watching
12 the march coming down William Street and I seen a group
13 running into Chamberlain Street and they stopped and
14 then I saw a crowd running up towards the flat from
15 William Street and two armoured cars behind them.
16 Question: Armoured vehicles?
17 Answer: Yes. Two of them came into the car
18 park. Some soldiers jumped out, I do not know how
19 many. One soldier knelt down on his knee and pointed
20 his gun. Another soldier jumped out and just shot from
21 his waist, just turned the gun like that and shot, and
22 he shot a boy on the back and he fell forward. Father
23 Daly and other men ran behind a small wall. Father
24 Daly crawled out to the boy who fell and he turned him
25 round on his back and he sat him up and the young boy
1 tried to lift his head too and then there were another
2 two shots from the same direction as the armoured cars
3 and the boy jerked his head and fell back and he did
4 not move again and Father Daly lay down on top of him.
5 Question: When the crowd were running into
6 Rossville flats car park and before the soldier fired
7 that you have described, about how many people do you
8 think that crowd was?
9 Answer: When the soldier shot?
10 Question: Yes.
11 Answer: There was only one boy then in the
12 car park. The rest was behind the wall. He was the
13 only one there then.
14 Lord Widgery: Father Daly was there?
15 Answer: Father Daly ran behind the wall.
16 Everybody else was behind the wall and this boy was
17 left in the car park.
18 Question: I think you mean that when the
19 people who could run away ran away, only this boy was
20 left; he could not run away.
21 Answer: Yes.
22 Mr Read: Can you help my Lord a little
23 further: you saw a crowd coming into the car park?
24 Answer: Yes.
25 Question: About how many people were in that
1 crowd which ran into the car park and got behind the
2 wall and things like that, do you know?
3 Answer: There was a lot of them." Then she
4 revealed she did not know who the boy was then, but now
5 knows that he was Jack Duddy.
6 There is a discrepancy between that evidence
7 and that of Father Daly who told Lord Widgery that it
8 was not he who turned the body round and said that when
9 he was lying -- when he, Father Daly, was lying on the
10 ground and looked over his shoulder he saw that the boy
11 was lying on his back and wondered how it was that he
12 had got in that position.
13 In cross-examination, Day 5, page 42 --
14 perhaps we should take it at 5, page 41, she was asked
15 this at D:
16 "Question: On this afternoon, it has been
17 suggested that there was firing from the flats at the
18 soldiers when they arrived. What have you to say about
19 that?
20 Answer: No, there was no firing at all.
21 Question: You were on the balcony when you
22 saw the soldiers firing?
23 Answer: Yes.
24 Question: Was that an open balcony?
25 Answer: Yes.
1 Question: Could you have missed firing from
2 the flats if it had taken place at the soldiers from
3 your position on the open balcony?
4 Answer: I never heard any shots till I heard
5 the soldiers shoot Jackie Duddy. That was the first
6 shot I heard."
7 Then at the top of the next page, 42A:
8 "Question: Did Duddy stop to look back at
9 the armoured cars?
10 Answer: He looked back but he did not stop,
11 he kept running.
12 Question: Did he not stop and turn to throw
13 something at the armoured cars?
14 Answer: No.
15 Question: You are sure about that?
16 Answer: Quite sure.
17 Question: How many people were there running
18 with him?
19 Answer: When young Duddy was running he was
20 on the car park himself, but the rest of the crowd had
21 run behind the wall."
22 Then at the bottom of the page she was asked
23 this at E by Mr Gibbens:
24 "Mr Gibbens: Let me be more precise about
25 it. You saw him hit first by a soldier you say firing
1 from the hip?
2 Answer: Yes.
3 Question: How was the soldier holding the
4 rifle to his body?
5 Answer: He just jumped out of the armoured
6 car with his gun like that there.
7 Question: Was his gun not straight to his
8 shoulder?
9 Answer: No.
10 Question: Then what did you see happen to
11 Duddy when he was hit?
12 Answer: He fell forward like that on his
13 face and two hands.
14 Question: There were other people round him,
15 were there not?
16 Answer: No, not when he fell there was
17 nobody round him.
18 Question: No one in front of him?" And she
19 said the place was "completely clear" apart from Father
20 Daly:
21 "Question: Then Father Daly went back to
22 him.
23 Answer: Yes.
24 Question: Was it after Father Daly went back
25 to attend to him that the second shot was fired.
1 Answer: Yes.
2 Question: And you saw him twitch. Did you
3 see who fired the second shot?
4 Answer: No, it just came from the same
5 direction as the other two.
6 Question: And because you saw Duddy twitch
7 you thought it had been fired at him?
8 Answer: I do not know who fired the shot.
9 I do not know whether they fired at Duddy or who they
10 fired at.
11 Question: It seemed to you as if a second
12 shot had been fired which made him twitch or jump as if
13 the bullet had struck his body?
14 Answer: Yes."
15 As we know, in fact Jack Duddy was only hit
16 by one bullet and not two, which entered his right
17 shoulder and exited his left upper chest. He was shot
18 in the shoulder and not on the back. If we look at
19 AB38.1, we will find Mrs Bonner's statement to this
20 Tribunal where she says at paragraph 7:
21 "My first recollection is seeing a crowd of
22 screaming people running down Chamberlain Street
23 towards the car park. I believe that there were also
24 people running down Rossville Street: but I was really
25 concentrating on Chamberlain Street. The people were
1 screaming, really screaming. I could hear a lot of
2 banging but I cannot describe this in detail."
3 8: Almost at the same time as the crowd were
4 running into the car park two Saracen armoured cars
5 arrived in the car park. They had been travelling at
6 speed and I could hear the sound of their engines. The
7 noise of their engines made me focus on the Saracens.
8 I am not exactly sure where they came from. I first
9 saw them as they arrived in the car park. One Saracen
10 which I think was the first to arrived, pulled up at
11 the side of the stairs at the northern gable end of
12 block 1. Its back door was open facing the car park
13 and I have marked its approximate position as B on the
14 attached map.
15 "9: The other seemed to be more or less
16 behind it, but I cannot be specific other than it was
17 on the wasteground. I cannot describe the position of
18 this one in detail and I am not sure which way it was
19 pointing.
20 "10: I saw two soldiers jump out of the back
21 of the first Saracen, the one parked just by block 1.
22 One soldier knelt on one knee holding his rifle in an
23 aiming position, the other jumped out from behind him
24 and seemed to fire his gun immediately. He didn't seem
25 to aim it but fired it from waist height. They did not
1 move from those positions and stayed close to the back
2 door of the Saracen.
3 "11: As I looked down the car park had
4 virtually cleared but there were still some people
5 running towards the low wall which runs parallel to
6 block 2 and just in front of the rear entrances to the
7 shops. Many people (I cannot give a more precise
8 number) were lying or hiding behind that low wall.
9 "12: There were still a few people running
10 for cover. I saw a young man who I now know to be
11 Jackie Duddy running I believe from Chamberlain Street.
12 I think he was the last person running for cover and I
13 believe that he was running from the direction of
14 Chamberlain Street making towards the low wall.
15 I could see Father (now Bishop) Daly run past him.
16 I do not know where Father Daly came from:
17 "13: I saw Jackie Duddy turn his face
18 slightly to the left as if he was looking behind or to
19 the side of him. I heard a bang and he went down face
20 first on to the car park. He fell approximately at the
21 end (i.e. closest to me) of the middle set of white car
22 parking lines. I have marked the approximate position
23 on appendix A and with X in grid reference L16 on the
24 map.
25 "14: Jackie Duddy was heading for the low
1 wall and running more or less straight towards me.
2 Father Daly and a couple of other people who had been
3 with him ran behind the wall.
4 "15: I could not tell where the shot that
5 hit Jackie Duddy came from but I connected it in my
6 mind with the soldier that I saw shoot his gun when he
7 got out of the back of the Saracen. The two events
8 were instantaneous.
9 "16: I shouted down to the people hiding
10 behind the low wall 'that young fella's been hit by a
11 rubber bullet which was what I thought at the time.
12 "Father Daly crawled out towards Jackie Duddy
13 who was lying face down. He knelt on Jackie Duddy's
14 right (to the left as I looked) and turned him face
15 up.
16 "I could see that Jackie Duddy had blood on
17 his shirt and I could see that he tried to lift his
18 head. Father Daly was cradling Jackie Duddy's head I
19 then heard two shots and Jackie Duddy seemed to jerk
20 and then was still.
21 "19: I do not know where those shots came
22 from or whether they hit. All I can say is that they
23 sounded the same as the first shot that I heard.
24 I could not see any other civilians in the car park.
25 My attention was focused on Jackie Duddy and Father
1 Daly.
2 Almost immediately after this a man came out
3 from behind the low wall. He was quite tall, about
4 five-foot ten and seemed to have sandy, fairish hair.
5 I cannot describe him further.
6 "22: He had his hands up and was shouting or
7 calling something out. I do not know who he was but he
8 was facing towards Chamberlain Street. He walked out
9 and seemed to be just by Father Daly and Jackie Duddy,
10 perhaps a few yards further away. I then heard one
11 shot and saw the man clutch his left leg. He then
12 seamed to be limping. I do not know where he went.
13 "24: I do not remember anybody other than
14 Father Daly with Jackie Duddy at this point in time."
15 The photograph that she is referring to is
16 the photograph which Michael Bridge says shows him:
17 "I cannot be exactly sure that this is the
18 man I saw shot but it looks like him. This man appears
19 to be standing on his own and the man that I saw shot
20 certainly was.
21 "26: As soon as I had seen this man shot
22 I ran back into my flat and looked out of my bedroom
23 window which is at the south side and faced towards
24 Free Derry Corner."
25 So she places Jack Duddy as falling
1 approximately at the southern end of the middle set of
2 white car parking lines and if we look at AB38.6, the
3 spot is marked on the photograph attached to her
4 statement which is actually a little further over to
5 the east, the place at which the photograph shows Jack
6 Duddy to have fallen and she thinks that he was running
7 from the direction of Chamberlain Street, and although
8 unable to say exactly where the shot came from that hit
9 him, connects it in her mind with somebody who fired
10 from waist height as he got out of the back of a
11 Saracen behind block 1. And she describes what is
12 plainly Michael Bridge coming towards Father Daly and
13 Jack Duddy from behind the low wall which, as we
14 recall, runs across behind the shops behind block 2.
15 Another eyewitness who gave evidence to
16 Lord Widgery is Mrs Duffy whose brother lived in Garden
17 Place on the second floor, the first balcony in block 2
18 in her evidence to Lord Widgery she described coming
19 out of the door of her brother's flat, seeing an Army
20 vehicle stop on the wasteground in front of the
21 courtyard and a boy running, apparently on his own.
22 She described one of the soldiers as getting out on his
23 knee and pointing a rifle. The boy, she said, did not
24 fall at the first shot, but at the second shot he put
25 his arms out and fell to the ground. If one looks at
1 Widgery at Day 5, page 53, at D, the second half of the
2 page, she said this:
3 "When I came out of my brother's flat,
4 Saracens were coming in and the soldiers jumped out and
5 this little boy was running on his own. There did not
6 seem to be anybody else. The crowd must have moved
7 that fast. One of the soldiers came and got down on
8 his knee and pointed the rifle and the first shot,
9 which I thought was a rubber bullet, the boy did not
10 fall but the second shot the boy put his hands straight
11 out like that and fell to the ground. His back was
12 covered with blood."
13 At the bottom of the page she says this at
14 D:
15 "Question: When they got out of the Saracens
16 what did they do?
17 Answer: This particular one?
18 Question: What did the rest of them do?
19 Answer: There was a number of them got hold
20 of an old man and started beating him, as I thought it
21 was with batons. I do not know whether it was with
22 batons or rifles.
23 Question: Did they stay in line or in
24 a group? How many soldiers were there altogether,
25 first of all?
1 Answer: Well now, I only seen three who was
2 beating the old man and the one down on his knee. That
3 was clear to me, those soldiers.
4 Question: How many vehicles did you see?
5 Answer: There was three.
6 Question: Did you see soldiers getting out
7 of all the Saracens or just one?
8 Answer: No, the leading Saracen.
9 Question: You did not see them get out of
10 the others?
11 Answer: After that I did not see any getting
12 out.
13 Question: Did you go back into the house?
14 Answer: No, I did not. I moved further up
15 the balcony and I called down to the soldiers then 'you
16 have murdered that little boy, are you now going to
17 murder that old man too? ' And one of the soldiers shot
18 up at me where I was standing on the balcony.
19 Question: Is there a bullet hole there still
20 visible and to be seen?
21 Answer: Yes."
22 It is not clear who this soldier might be who
23 fired into block 2 into which no soldier admits
24 certainly having fired a live bullet unless, possibly,
25 this is a reference to the firing of a rubber bullet
1 since at least one soldier, 033 I think it is,
2 describes firing rubber bullets at the Rossville flat
3 windows.
4 In her statement to this Tribunal Mrs Duffy
5 has indicated that she cannot now recall seeing any
6 Saracens or any soldiers jumping out of them, but she
7 recalls taking her sister to her brother's flat. If we
8 may pick it up at AD158.2, what she describes at
9 paragraph 10, is this:
10 "While I was calming my sister down, I could
11 hear a lot of noise coming from the car park to the
12 north of block 2 of the Rossville flats, as if people
13 were running through it. I did not go out to the
14 balcony to take a look, instead I stayed with my sister
15 to try to calm her down. I do not know exactly what
16 time it was. I stayed with her for at least 5-10
17 minutes while she settled down.
18 "11: Once she had calmed down I went out on
19 to the balcony outside the front door of my brother's
20 flat. The front door looked out on to the car park
21 between blocks 1, 2 and 3 of the Rossville flats.
22 I stood on the balcony leaning on the railings, looking
23 due north towards William Street. I could still see
24 signs of rioting on William Street such as clouds of
25 gas rising in the air and I could still hear the noise
1 of rioting. Otherwise all was quiet and I cannot
2 recall seeing anyone in the car park.
3 "12: I went then back into the flat to check
4 on my sister. By that time I think my brother and his
5 wife had returned to the flat, although I did not see
6 them. I checked on my sister who seemed all right.
7 I then went back on to the balcony I could not see
8 anyone else out on the balcony. I looked down into the
9 car park. I saw a young boy running in from the
10 entrance ... the boy seemed to be running towards the
11 bog entrance as we called it, the alleyway between
12 blocks 1 and 2. I recognised him as Jackie Duddy. I
13 did not know him personally. However, I was a member
14 of the amateur boxing Board of Control at the time and
15 knew him to be a young boxer.
16 "13: I focused in on him. He seemed to me
17 to be at the tail end of the people who had run down
18 William Street towards the Rossville flats as I cannot
19 recall seeing anyone else around.
20 "14: At about the same time, I noticed two
21 soldiers, both on one knee, by the northern gable end
22 of block 1 of the Rossville flats. I cannot recall
23 whether or not they were wearing any masks or visors or
24 of any sort. Both were kneeling fairly close to the
25 wall at the point marked 3 on the attached map," which
1 is at the northeast corner.
2 "The soldiers were holding their rifles
3 against their waists. I cannot recall whether either
4 of the soldiers had their right or left-hand on the
5 trigger. However I do recall that whichever hand was
6 not on the trigger was being used to support the barrel
7 of the rifle and that hand was steadied by the soldier
8 leaning his elbow on the knee that was not in contact
9 with the ground.
10 "15: I looked back and forth from Jackie
11 Duddy to the soldiers. A shot rang out, I believe from
12 the two soldiers I was looking at. At the time
13 I thought it was a rubber bullet as it was too early in
14 the troubles for me to distinguish between various
15 types of bullet. Jackie Duddy continued to run. He
16 had reached as far as the about the third garage away
17 from the southern end of block 2 when a second shot
18 rang out and he pitched forward, his arms outstretched
19 and his hands open and he fell on his face. He fell in
20 the position marked 5 ... his head was nearest to me
21 with his feet towards the entrance to the car park.
22 His legs were splayed out. He was not carrying
23 anything in his hands or in his arms when he fell.
24 After he fell I could see blood spreading down his
25 back, from the top of his back towards his hips. At
1 the time I did not see anybody else in the car park or
2 around Jackie Duddy. To me the car park seemed to be
3 empty. There could have been people sheltering close
4 against the wall in front of block 2 ... but I would
5 not have been able to see them from where I was
6 standing."
7 In the rest of the statement she describes
8 going to her daughter's flat in block 3, not being able
9 to get in and coming back to her brother's flat in
10 block 2 and then seeing soldiers using batons to beat
11 an old man in the row of Chamberlain Street; that it
12 was then she shouted at the soldiers and was fired at.
13 One gets that in paragraph 20, when having described an
14 old man being beaten, she says at paragraph 20:
15 "I went over to the edge of the balcony at
16 the approximate position marked 8," we shall see in
17 a moment that is in block 3:
18 "I shouted over the balcony 'you murdering
19 bastards you have killed that wee fella, are you now
20 going to kill the old man as well'. Suddenly one of
21 the soldiers beating the old man moved away from the
22 other two soldiers and further towards the middle of
23 the car park to the approximate position marked 9 ...
24 as this was happening I was dragged away to my
25 right-hand side by Mrs Irwin and Mr Riley, both of whom
1 are now dead, and was taken into a flat about three
2 doors down from my daughter's flat in the position
3 marked 10 and the door slammed shut. I think that my
4 shouting at the soldiers had alerted them to me. The
5 flat into which I was taken was nearer to the northern
6 gable end of block 3 than my daughter's flat. As this
7 was happening a shot rang out and hit the position
8 where I had been standing.
9 "21: A few days later I returned to that
10 spot and saw a bullet hole in the metal railing about
11 one-and-a-half feet from the floor in the exact
12 position where I had been standing."
13 If one looks at AD158.7, what she is
14 describing with these numbers is that there was a
15 soldier in the car park at point 9 and she was being
16 taken into a flat at the position marked 10, which is
17 at the north western end of block 3 and that it was as
18 that happened that a shot rang out and hit the position
19 where she had been standing in block 3. But she refers
20 in the important part of this evidence relating to Jack
21 Duddy, to soldiers both on one knee by the northern
22 gable end of block 1 of the Rossville flats and to two
23 shots ringing out which she believed came from the two
24 soldiers at point 3 to Jack Duddy at point 5. So, on
25 this account, she ascribes the death of Jack Duddy to
1 soldiers firing from the northern gable end of block 1
2 of the Rossville flats, which seems to be a somewhat
3 different account to that which appears at Day 5, page
4 53, the second half of the page. The account has her
5 coming out of her brother's flat and seeing soldiers
6 jump out and one of the soldiers came and got down on
7 his knee and pointed a rifle, having jumped out of the
8 Saracen, and fired two shots, the second of which she
9 believes kills Jack Duddy.
10 Another eyewitness is Cathleen O'Donnell
11 whose statement is at AO23.6. She was 16 or 17 at the
12 time and lived with her family at 57 Donagh Place on
13 the eighth floor of block 3 of the flats. At paragraph
14 8 of her statement to this Tribunal, she says this:
15 "I managed to reach block 1 and went in at
16 the front entrance through double doors. I ran up the
17 steps to the fifth floor. I tried to go across from
18 there to block 2 but the entrance was blocked.
19 I carried on running up the stairs to Donagh Place
20 until I got to a door which was locked. This was the
21 door which led to the roof where the Army had been
22 stationed. I do not think there was a Regiment up
23 there on Bloody Sunday. I realised that in my panic
24 I had run too far so turned and came down. I walked
25 across Donagh Place into block 2 and reached the top
1 walkway. I could still hear shooting but did not know
2 where it was coming from.
3 "9: On the walkway I was stopped by a man
4 who was lying down on his tummy overlooking the car
5 park. He shouted at me lie down 'they are shooting
6 they can see you'. I went straight down on to my hands
7 and knees. I began to crawl along the top balcony of
8 block 2 on my mouth and nose. I was terrified because
9 I could hear shooting and did not know where it was
10 coming from or what the people shooting were aiming
11 at. Whilst I was crawling along I was looking out to
12 my left across the Rossville flats car park. I had a
13 clear view from the balcony. There were railings which
14 went from the floor of the balcony to approximately
15 chest height. They were thin cast iron railings and
16 I could put my feet through the gaps. I could see
17 through them clearly.
18 "10: As I was looking through the railings
19 and crawling along I saw some soldiers running across
20 the wasteground behind the Chamberlain Street houses.
21 I did not pay much attention to these soldiers. I also
22 saw one Saracen which had stopped near Pilot's Row on
23 the wasteground. I could see some people running into
24 the car park from Chamberlain Street and some must have
25 run into the car park from the gap between blocks 2 and
1 3. I could not see them coming through that gap from
2 where I was lying but knew that they must have come in
3 from there..
4 "11: My attention was caught by two
5 soldiers. I do not know where they came from, whether
6 they ran across the wasteground or whether they came
7 from the Saracen. I did not see them come out of the
8 Saracen. They were standing at points 1 and 2 marked
9 on the map."
10 The map is at AO23.11. Points 1 and 2 on the
11 map are on the northeast corner of block 1 of the
12 Rossville flats. Going back to AO23.6, the second half
13 of the page, paragraph 11:
14 "They were standing at points 1 and 2 marked
15 on the map and at points 1 and 2 marked on two
16 photographs. The soldier at point 1," the one nearest
17 to the block" was a black soldier who was standing.
18 The soldier at point 2 was white and kneeling. They
19 were both wearing green khaki Army gear and tin hats
20 with their glass visors on their helmets. The black
21 man was tall with very long legs. He was definitely a
22 black man, not a white soldier with a blackened face.
23 The other man was a lot shorter. They were positioned
24 very close together. The black soldier was holding a
25 large gun from his waist and was shooting it around the
1 car park at waist height and up in the air. He
2 appeared to be aiming at nothing in particular. He was
3 shouting - I could hear the echo of his voice. The
4 soldier kneeling was shooting from his shoulder, again
5 in no particular direction, just all around the car
6 park. I thought they were shooting at me. The
7 cracking and banging of the guns never stopped and
8 seemed to go on for hours.
9 "12: At that time there were not many crowds
10 in the car park. There were some people running,
11 trying to hide. People were disappearing as the
12 soldiers were shooting. My attention was focused on
13 the two soldiers. I did not know what they were
14 shooting for. I did not hear anything being shot at
15 them. I could hear people shouting 'lie down' but
16 could not hear anyone shouting at the soldiers. I was
17 watching them closely all the time so that I could hide
18 from them. The fear was awful.
19 "13: I was still crawling my way across the
20 block 2 walkway towards block 3. My instinct was to
21 get home because I knew I should not have been there in
22 the first place. After what seemed like hours
23 I reached the end of block 2 and managed to make my way
24 into block 3. The door to my flat opened and my father
25 looked out. He was on his hands and knees, shouting at
1 me. He swore and shouted 'lie down, stay where you
2 are, lie still' the fear on his face was awful. By
3 that time I was very close to my house, almost near
4 point 5 on photograph A."
5 If we look at AO23.9, we can see where point
6 5 on the photograph is, it is in block 3 where the
7 darkened spot is. She has obviously crawled around
8 from block 1, along block 2 to block 3. Go back to
9 AO23.6 -- sorry 23.7. Paragraph 13, the last line but
10 two:
11 "I remember some girls from Belfast who were
12 gabbing the railings and screeching and squealing very
13 near to my flat. My father was shouting at all of us
14 to lie down.
15 "14: All of a sudden I noticed a young boy
16 run across the car park from the point marked 3 on the
17 map and at the points marked 3 on photographs A and B.
18 He was running across the car park in front of the
19 garages underneath block 1, side along to me. He was
20 the only person there at the time. I am not sure where
21 he came from. He was not running particularly hard, he
22 was just running. I imagine he was running towards the
23 gap between blocks 1 and 2 of the flats. He looked
24 happy. He had long dark hair and was wearing a dark
25 coat with big lapels. He had nothing in his hands.
1 I remember at one stage he looked around and then ran
2 on. I do not think he saw the soldiers, people were
3 shouting at him to lie down. I was shouting at him
4 too, 'Jesus lie down'. Suddenly I saw his arms go up
5 above his head in a vehicle shape and he fell flat to
6 the ground. I do not remember if he fell on to his
7 back or his tummy. At that time it did not register
8 with me that he had been shot. Then all of a sudden
9 I saw blood running out from underneath him. I knew
10 then that he had been shot. I would say that he was
11 shot at the point marked 4 on the map and on the
12 photographs ... he had run from point 3 to 4.
13 "15: People were shouting and came out from
14 the gap between blocks 1 and 2. By that stage I was
15 almost at the door to my flat. I was panicking and
16 shouting he is shot daddy, he is shot. My daddy
17 grabbed hold of me and prised the other girl's fingers
18 off the railings and threw us all into the flat. The
19 last thing I remember is seeing the young lad on the
20 ground with lots of blood everywhere and a man with no
21 hair near him with a white flag. I stared at the
22 scene. I did not look at what else was going on around
23 although I was aware that other people were around.
24 "The man whom I saw with the white flag was
25 Father Daly and I later learned that the boy was Jack
1 Duddy.
2 If one looks at 23.11, 3 and 4 in her map are
3 on the east side of block 1. This statement does not
4 specifically attribute the shooting of Jack Duddy to
5 any soldier but the impression that is given is that it
6 was one of those who were at the northeast of block 1,
7 a black soldier shooting from the hip and a white
8 soldier shooting from the shoulder, one or other of
9 whom whose shot killed Jack Duddy.
10 So both in her case and in the case of
11 Mrs Duffy, at any rate so far as her statement to this
12 Tribunal is concerned, they appear to suggest that Jack
13 Duddy was shot by a soldier at the northeast of block 1
14 of the Rossville flats.
15 LORD GIFFORD: Before my friend moves on,
16 does he have any information about the presence of
17 black soldiers in the relevant company?
18 MR CLARKE: Not as I speak. Since I have
19 seen none of them, I have no means of telling. I will
20 ask at lunch whether any of the soldiers whom Eversheds
21 have interviewed who was in 1 Para is black.
22 Another eyewitness was the late Derek Tucker
23 who lived at Garvan Place in block 2 and who saw from
24 his flat, or from the veranda outside it, people in
25 Rossville Street and Chamberlain Street suddenly start
1 to run down south and saw the approach of the convoy of
2 armoured vehicles. If we look at Day 7 of the Widgery
3 transcript, page 9, we will see what was his account
4 when he was asked, the second question at A:
5 "Question: At about that time did you see
6 armoured vehicles?
7 Answer: I saw Saracens, three Saracens and a
8 ferret car, plus two Army lorries backing them up, came
9 on and proceeded into the car park itself, and the
10 other ones went on to the wasteground and up to the
11 barricade, I presume. I could not see them actually.
12 They were out of my sight ...
13 Question: Did you see soldier take up firing
14 positions?
15 Answer: The leading Saracen stopped and
16 soldiers deployed from the vehicle. One took up a
17 position at the near side off wheel front, and another
18 soldier went to the off side of the vehicle. Both of
19 them took up firing positions. The one on the off side
20 raised his rifle up and started firing towards the
21 landings of the flats in Rossville Street.
22 Question: Could you see at what sort of
23 floor level he appeared to be firing?
24 Answer: No. I just presumed it was the
25 second or fifth floor.
1 Question: I think you saw a man who was shot
2 in the car park of the flats?
3 Answer: Yes.
4 Question: Who turned out to be Mr Duddy?
5 Answer: Jack Duddy, yes."
6 Then he also described seeing another man
7 shot. Then E:
8 "Mr Stocker: Would you tell my Lord about the
9 other man, not Duddy?
10 Answer: After Jack Duddy was shot, Father
11 Daly and William Barber, who I recognised, were leaning
12 by the body, went to give him some help and so forth.
13 Another man ran out into the middle of the car park,
14 raised his hands in the air and started gesticulating.
15 Whether he was shouting or not, I could not say.
16 Lord Widgery: He got fair hair.
17 Answer: Yes, and then he suddenly clapped
18 his hand to his right thigh and hobbled away to the far
19 corner of the car park."
20 That is obviously Michael Bridge. If one
21 goes to G, Mr Stocker asked this question:
22 "Did you see somebody else hit?
23 Answer: I also saw another man shot. He was
24 behind this wall at the edge of the car park. That is
25 a low wall separating the car park from the service
1 area of the shops and he was shouting out to the people
2 and turned with his back to the Saracens facing the
3 flats. He was shouting 'get away from the windows.
4 They are firing', and he turned round and started to
5 move towards the right-hand side of the car park, when
6 he suddenly class clasped his hands to his stomach and
7 fell.
8 Lord Widgery: How near was he to Mr Duddy and
9 Father Daly? About the length of this table?
10 Answer: About the length of this table, but
11 he was the other side of the wall.
12 Lord Widgery: We have not heard of this.
13 Mr Stocker: Unless it was Gilmore.
14 The Witness: Gilmore was the other side."
15 It is not clear, at any rate to me, who is
16 the person to whom Mr Tucker is referring who started
17 to move towards the right-hand side of the car park and
18 then suddenly clasped his hand to his stomach and fell,
19 though it is possible that this is a reference to the
20 wounding of Michael Bradley, who was not shot in the
21 stomach but was shot either by a bullet that went into
22 his left arm and crossed his chest and exited his right
23 arm, or possibly by more than one bullet. In any event
24 he was wounded in such a way as to give him a wound
25 across his chest, which it would not surprise one to
1 assume that he may have clasped which might have
2 appeared to Mr Tucker as somebody clasping his stomach
3 rather than his chest.
4 Mr Tucker had served three years in the Navy
5 and 13 years in the RAF and it was he who took the
6 sequence of photographs that we saw in colour at EP28
7 which show people running into the car park. We might,
8 since we have his evidence, just look again at EP28.5.
9 We have seen this before, but the sort of scene that
10 Mr Tucker is describing and that which he saw is that
11 which is recorded in this photograph, taken by him from
12 block 2, of people running through the car park of the
13 flats as the Saracens come in. He was also one of
14 those who saw a man struck by one of the Saracens as it
15 entered the car park. In the course of his evidence he
16 said that it was between 30 seconds and a couple of
17 minutes after the Saracens stopped before the soldiers
18 opened fire. He describes himself as being 30 yards
19 from Jack Duddy, and at page 14 of Widgery Day 7 we
20 will find the portion of his transcript which says that
21 which I have just summarised at B, Mr McSparran asked
22 him:
23 "Mr Tucker, did you see one of the Saracens
24 actually strike one or more of the crowd?
25 Answer: I did.
1 Question: What happened to that person?
2 Answer: He was just flung up like an old
3 coat being struck; he just went up in the air.
4 Question: Immediately the Saracens stopped
5 the soldiers got out?
6 Answer: They did.
7 Question: What interval would you estimate
8 elapsed between the soldiers getting out of the
9 Saracens and their commencing to fire?
10 Answer: 30 seconds to a couple of minutes.
11 Question: Up to that moment in time had
12 there been any firing or any explosions or anything of
13 that nature?
14 Answer: Not beforehand. The only firing
15 I heard was of gas cannisters and rubber bullets which
16 was taking place at the junction of William Street and
17 Rossville Street.
18 Lord Widgery: Of course, at the time when you
19 took that good photograph of the courtyard there had
20 been no shooting?
21 Answer: No shooting of live bullets, no , my
22 Lord."
23 At E he was asked:
24 "Question: Can you estimate in terms of
25 distance how far that would have been from the", that
1 is being Duddy and Father Daly going to his assistance
2 "how far that would have been from the vantage point
3 you had?
4 Answer: 30 yards or less."
5 At F:
6 "Question: Was it after that that you moved
7 from the bedroom to the living room?
8 Answer: After I saw the two people shot.
9 Question: Why did you move from the bedroom
10 to the living room?
11 Answer: Quite honest, I was sickened and
12 degraded by the action of the British Army against
13 unarmed civilians."
14 I wonder if that would be a convenient
15 moment?
16 LORD SAVILLE: Yes, certainly, 1.00, please.
17 (12.05 pm)
18 (The luncheon adjournment)
19 (1.00 pm)
20 MR CLARKE: It may be instructive to look at
21 some of the questions that Mr Tucker was asked in
22 cross-examination because at Day 7, page 16A of the
23 Widgery transcript, he was cross-examined by Mr Gibbens
24 for the Army. At the top of the page he was asked
25 this:
1 "Question: Father Daly, when he gave
2 evidence, said he had told the press that he knew where
3 the IRA gunmen would be if they had been on the flats,
4 and then in evidence he said that he relied on
5 information he got from people on whom he can rely.
6 Did you ever speak of this matter to Father Daly?
7 Answer: I have no sympathy with the IRA
8 myself personally and I would definitely not --
9 Question: Would it not be right to say that
10 in the previous troubles there have been, it has not
11 been at all uncommon for people to fire at the troops
12 from the high positions in Rossville flats?
13 Answer: I have heard it mentioned, yes.
14 Question: I thought you lived there.
15 Answer: I do live there. I have never
16 actually seen anybody firing myself.
17 Question: You must have heard them firing?
18 Answer: I have heard shots.
19 Question: From the Rossville flats?
20 Answer: I could not say exactly where they
21 were coming from.
22 Lord Widgery: Well now, Mr Tucker. You live
23 there?
24 Answer: I do.
25 Question: I think you must know one way or
1 the other whether in the past these flats have been
2 used as a vantage point for snipers.
3 Answer: I was told that. I have never
4 actually seen them.
5 Question: But you believe it, do you? You
6 cannot live in the flats without having a pretty good
7 idea about this kind of thing, I would have thought.
8 Do you really tell me you do not know?
9 Answer: Are you asking me if I have seen
10 people or not?
11 Question: No.
12 Answer: I have not seen them. I have been
13 told that people have fired from the flats.
14 Mr Gibbens: You are confident that that is
15 true?
16 Answer: Yes.
17 Question: When you were told there was no
18 object in people misleading you: they were telling you
19 that people fire from the flats?
20 Answer: People have told me that.
21 Question: And regularly so?
22 Answer: It is not as regular; it is not an
23 everyday event."
24 At the bottom of the page he was asked this:
25 "Question: We have also been told,
1 including by your priest, that he knows that frequently
2 shots are fired by people who take advantage of the
3 commanding position of the Rossville flats.
4 Answer: Yes.
5 Question: And since you live there you must
6 know that these troubles go on and that the shooting
7 takes place while they are going on?
8 Answer: Yes.
9 Question: Are you saying that this time
10 there was no shooting from the Rossville flats or you
11 cannot distinguish it?
12 Answer: There was no shooting on that
13 Sunday."
14 He was later asked at B, the second question
15 after about:
16 "Question: Did you see Father Daly
17 attending to Duddy on the ground?
18 Answer: I did.
19 Question: Did you see him shout or scream at
20 a civilian gunman to go away and stop shooting at the
21 Army?
22 Answer: I did not question ...
23 Question: So you did not see that gunman at
24 the bottom of Chamberlain Street?
25 Answer: I did not see a gunman at the bottom
1 of Chamberlain Street.
2 Question: That was a thing which, in your
3 position, you could hardly have missed?
4 Answer: Exactly."
5 May we then come to Day 7, page 20. He was
6 asked in the third question at B:
7 "When the armoured carriers stopped and the
8 troops got out the first thing that happened was that
9 rubber bullets were fired?
10 Answer: I would say live rounds were fired
11 myself.
12 Question: Did you know any rubber bullets
13 were fired at that time?
14 Answer: Not at that time. I had heard
15 rubber bullets being fired, but they seemed to be
16 coming from back in William Street.
17 Question: After you saw the carriers come on
18 to the wasteground - I will ask you this question first
19 - did they appear, except for the ones that came to
20 the entrance of Rossville court, to sweep round as if
21 to swoop up those who were on the wasteground?
22 Answer: Yes.
23 Question: And then there was a sudden change
24 in their attitude, was there not, and rubber bullets
25 began to be fired?
1 Answer: I heard no rubber bullets being
2 fired at that stage.
3 Question: The firing at the flats was,
4 according to you, in the first place up at the second
5 or fifth floor, I think you said?
6 Answer: He just pointed his rifle up.
7 Question: That was the first shot fired?
8 Answer: No, I would not say that was the
9 first - I mean, to me the two soldiers appeared to be
10 firing at the same time, it was that quick.
11 Question: Was that the first shot fired in
12 that place?
13 Answer: It was the first firing of live
14 rounds, yes.
15 Question: Did you see any other soldier
16 firing at the same time?
17 Answer: A soldier who positioned himself at
18 the near side front wheel appeared to be firing towards
19 the ground and that is when he shot Jack Duddy.
20 Question: Did you see Jack Duddy before that
21 moment?
22 Answer: I saw people running; I could not
23 particularly pick out one man.
24 Question: Did you see Jack Duddy stop to
25 look back?
1 Answer: I saw him fall."
2 So what that evidence appears to state is
3 that Jack Duddy was, in Mr Tucker's view, shot by a
4 soldier at the near side front wheel of the Pig that
5 was at the entrance to the Rossville Street car park.
6 The candidate, on the evidence of the soldiers, who
7 most fits that description would appear to be
8 Sergeant O. Mr Tucker's NICRA statement is at AT16.1.
9 It contains the detail of what happened to the man who
10 was shot in the leg, which must have been
11 Michael Bridge, and the man who was shot in the
12 stomach. The relevant paragraph is the second
13 paragraph:
14 "The soldier at the near side front wheel of
15 the Saracen started firing and I saw a man fall to the
16 ground. Someone running in front of the man stopped,
17 turned and went to his aid. The shot which that
18 soldier fired was the first shot that I heard that
19 day. Shooting continued and I saw two other men shot
20 in the car park. The first of these was roughly in the
21 middle of the car park with his hands raised in the
22 air. He appeared to be shot in the leg as he suddenly
23 grasped his right leg with his right arm and hopped
24 into the top corner of the car park where the kiddies'
25 play area is.
1 "The second man who was shot was crouching at
2 the little wall dividing the service area of the shops
3 from the car park. He got up from his crouching
4 position. I saw him clutch his stomach and bend over.
5 Then he was dragged into the back doorway of the
6 baker's shop. At no time did I see any of the
7 abovementioned men with weapons of any sort in their
8 hands."
9 So the man who appeared to Mr Tucker to be
10 shot in the stomach is dragged into the back doorway of
11 the baker's shop. The back doorway is presumably
12 a reference to the doors at the Rossville car park side
13 of block 2 which would be back doors into the shops
14 whose front is at the south of block 2. There is,
15 I think, some evidence elsewhere that there was
16 a baker's shop named, I think, Dogherty's, which was
17 the furthest shop, if memory serves, on the eastern end
18 of the row of shops at block 2; it may be that to which
19 this testimony is referring.
20 Two of Mr Tucker's sons, Martin and Derrik,
21 who were 17 and 12 respectively at the time of Bloody
22 Sunday, have themselves given statements for the
23 purposes of this Inquiry to Eversheds. Both of them
24 were looking out of the windows of 31 Garvan Place into
25 the courtyard and from time to time southwards towards
1 Joseph Place at various times during the day.
2 If we take AT17.3, we will find a portion of
3 the statement to this Inquiry of Martin Tucker, the
4 elder of the two brothers, whose description begins at
5 paragraph 17:
6 "The two Saracens stopped just in front of
7 garages at the point marked D on the map attached."
8 The map attached is at AT17.16, and it is
9 about a third to a half of the way down block 1 and to
10 the east of block 1, slightly further down than the
11 photograph of the Pig number 2 would appear to
12 suggest. Going back to 17.3, at paragraph 17 in the
13 second line:
14 "Two soldiers got out of the back of one of
15 the vehicles, which was very unusual. I thought it was
16 very weird and very strange. Soldiers just did not do
17 that. Firing rubber bullets out of slits along the
18 sides of the vehicles would have been normal, but not
19 what I could see was happening. I could not understand
20 why they were getting out, particularly in a crowd of
21 that size. The two soldiers came round to the front of
22 the vehicle fairly quickly. Other soldiers may have
23 got out but I only saw those two clearly.
24 "18. At that time, the rest of the crowd was
25 generally scattering and getting out of the way. Some
1 people were heading for the stairway at the north end
2 of block 1. Most were going for the alleyways between
3 blocks 1 and 2 and blocks 2 and 3. Generally when
4 there were riots, when one group started running other
5 people would know that something was wrong and would
6 run too. Normally people would scatter first before
7 re-grouping and then someone would have the madness or
8 bravery to turn and then the rioting would start
9 again.
10 "19. The two soldiers were wearing khaki
11 uniforms and helmets. I did not notice anything
12 distinctive about them. They moved to the front of the
13 vehicle. One stood by the offside door at the front of
14 the vehicle. I am not sure if the other one went round
15 to the other side of the vehicle, but my recollection
16 is they were both quite close together. I have an
17 image of the one that moved closest to block 1 leaning
18 on the front of the Saracen. I did not see them taking
19 cover in any way. Within seconds, one or both opened
20 fire. They were high velocity shots and were the first
21 shots I had heard that day. I think both soldiers were
22 shooting but I cannot be 100 per cent certain. One of
23 them definitely was. I did not see things being thrown
24 from the flats into the car park. There may well have
25 been things thrown in other circumstances but people
1 were just getting out of the way and were taking
2 cover.
3 "20. By then my father's camera film had run
4 out." Unfortunately:
5 "It was just as well, it would not have been
6 wise to take photos then. People were still running
7 away and the crowd were starting to thin. I saw the
8 soldier who was by the offside door, aiming his rifle
9 from the shoulder. I heard a crack and I saw a man,
10 who I now know to be Jack Duddy, fall at the point
11 marked E on the map attached."
12 That is just to the left of the words
13 Rossville flats where they appear on the map:
14 "21. At first I could not really believe he
15 had been shot and I was trying to make sense of it.
16 However, I could see from the reaction of the people
17 around him that he had been shot. He had been running
18 side on to the soldier when he was shot. He seemed to
19 be running for the exit between blocks 1 and 2.
20 "22. The next thing I saw was our parish
21 priest, Father Daly, as he was then, by the side of
22 Jack Duddy. I saw a small crowd of maybe half a dozen
23 gather around them (when they later started taking Jack
24 Jack Duddy out of the car park, I recognised one of
25 those people as Willie Barber). By then I was getting
1 quite distressed. People in the car park were
2 screaming and panicking.
3 "23. Almost immediately, I saw a man, who
4 I now know to be Mickey Bridge, walking and taking good
5 strides towards the soldier standing at the offside of
6 the Saracen, from the point marked F on the map
7 attached."
8 We ought to look at F, AT17.16. F is to the
9 south of the southwest gable end of
10 Chamberlain Street. Back to AT17.4, the third line of
11 paragraph 23:
12 "I remember quite clearly that he was walking
13 with his arms out at either side of his body. He had
14 nothing in his hands. I could see that he was angry.
15 He was shouting at the soldiers but I did not hear
16 exactly what he was shouting.
17 "24. I saw the soldier aim his rifle at
18 Mickey Bridge and I heard a shot. Mickey Bridge
19 clutched at his right hip and went down. He was shot
20 in the right upper leg, near the hip. That was when
21 I realised that the soldiers were definitely shooting
22 people. There were still people around that area and
23 then Mickey Bridge was helped away. However, I do not
24 know how he got out of the car park:
25 "25. In those first few seconds when
1 Jack Duddy and Mickey Bridge were shot, I think there
2 were maybe half a dozen or ten shots. I thought all
3 these shots were from the two soldiers I had seen.
4 They were the only soldiers that I had seen shooting.
5 I think those two did the initial damage.
6 "26. After he shot Mickey Bridge, I cannot
7 remember whether the soldier moved off or stayed where
8 he was. I saw more soldiers come across towards the
9 car park on foot, some from the wasteground around
10 Pilot Row and Eden Place and some from the southern end
11 of Chamberlain Street.
12 "27. Then, very quickly after Mickey Bridge
13 was shot, out of the corner of my eye, I saw a man in
14 a red jumper shot, I think at the point G on the map
15 attached. He was hit in the upper body or shoulder.
16 I remember thinking that if you are shot in the upper
17 body, that is the end of you. I think he was running
18 towards the alleyway between blocks 2 and 3 at the
19 time, but I do not really know. I cannot link that
20 shooting with any particular soldier. I cannot
21 remember much about the man other than he was young,
22 maybe a couple of years older than me at the time.
23 I think it may have been Michael Bradley."
24 Point G we can see at AT17.16, it is about
25 two-thirds of the way down block 1. Can we go back to
1 AT17.4:
2 "28. People kept diving for cover. There
3 was a wall along the front of block 3 of the Rossville
4 flats, between the flats and the car park. There was
5 a play area around there. People were getting as close
6 to that wall as they could. I also recollect seeing
7 a couple of women, I think they were middle-aged, going
8 towards the steps leading to the alleyway between
9 blocks 2 and 3 of the Rossville flats by the small
10 wall. I then saw two soldiers standing with their
11 backs to the east gable end of Chamberlain Street,
12 looking into the car park (at point H on the map)."
13 Point H is at the southeast gable end of
14 Chamberlain Street:
15 "I looked at them because I saw Jackie Duddy
16 being carried into the south end of Chamberlain
17 Street. I remember screaming and effing and blinding
18 at the soldiers out of the window and being really
19 really angry. There were people directly below the
20 window hiding behind a small wall. They told me to get
21 away from the window, saying 'They are shooting'.
22 I screamed back 'I know they are fucking shooting'.
23 "29. I looked back up and saw the soldier at
24 point H pumping about half a dozen bullets into a brown
25 Cortina that was parked by the small wall in front of
1 block 2 (at point I on the map). I think the first
2 bullet may have burst a tyre, but the rest of the
3 bullets went into the body of the car. I thought it
4 was just bizarre. I did not know why they were firing
5 into the car, there was no one in it. There was
6 nothing special about the car. It was maybe a couple
7 of years old. There was another car by the west gable
8 end wall of Chamberlain Street. It was a small car.
9 I think it was a Mini. The thought went through my
10 head that the soldiers were trying to shoot at the two
11 middle-aged women I had seen who, by then, would have
12 just gone down the steps by the alleyway between blocks
13 2 and 3. I then dismissed the thought because, if they
14 had wanted to shoot them, they could have. I have
15 since thought that maybe it was just adrenaline or
16 something.
17 "30. The people behind the small wall in
18 front of block 2 by then were seriously worried.
19 I decided to take their advice and came away from the
20 window. I think I initially went into the kitchen.
21 I remember that my mother was taking tea. My father
22 was looking out of the living room window. I think
23 both my brothers and my sister were with him."
24 Pausing there, this witness is referring to
25 there being a brown Cortina at the point described as
1 I, into which soldiers at H were pumping about half
2 a dozen bullets and that in addition there was another
3 car by the west gable end wall which he thinks was
4 a Mini. If we go to AT17.16, we can see that H is
5 indeed the southeast gable wall, just in front of it.
6 Point I is immediately to the northeast of the E of
7 Rossville flats. The Tribunal will recall that
8 Sergeant O said that he fired at a Cortina motorcar
9 that was parked in the angle that we see on the chart.
10 The Tribunal will also recall that it was put
11 to him at the Widgery Tribunal that the Cortina was
12 a figment of his imagination. This witness talks of
13 a Cortina in a position close to, but not identical, to
14 that described by Sergeant O. He also refers to the
15 existence of what he believed to be a Mini at the west
16 gable end wall. If we take EP28.3A, his father's
17 photograph reveals the existence, not of a mini but of
18 a car which -- I am not an expert in these matters --
19 looks not unlike a Cortina. At EP28.3 there may be
20 a better version. Whether that is a Cortina or not
21 I do not know, it certainly looks brownish, but that is
22 a car at the southwest gable end of Chamberlain
23 Street. There was, as we saw earlier, a Mini in the
24 car park. If we go to EP28.4A, that was not at the
25 southwest gable end of the car park but to the side, to
1 the east side of block 1 either at the north end as
2 appears in that photograph, or EP28.5, at the south end
3 as appears in EP28.5.
4 The upshot of this evidence taken as a whole
5 is that Jack Duddy was shot by a soldier firing from
6 the offside of the Pig at the entrance to the car park
7 and that Michael Bridge was also shot by a soldier or
8 soldiers near that Pig. Again Sergeant O is the
9 closest candidate in the sense of being somebody who
10 fired, but from the near side of the Pig. He also
11 fired at a Cortina, but not from point H and the
12 Cortina was in a somewhat different position, though
13 not far away, in the angle of the low wall, a different
14 position to that described by this witness.
15 Derrik Tucker, the younger son, aged 12 at
16 the time, has a statement, the relevant passage of
17 which appears at AT15.3. He gives a rather less
18 precise account, not surprising in view of his youth at
19 the time. At paragraph 18, he says:
20 "There were about five or six Saracens, one
21 of which turned eastwards off Rossville Street and on
22 to the wasteground. This Saracen looped behind an
23 abandoned van which can be seen in some of the
24 photographs, and then disappeared out of view"
25 obviously Pig 1:
1 "Another Saracen stopped at the gable end of
2 block 1 of the flats. From where we sat we could just
3 see the bonnet of the vehicle. A further Saracen
4 parked at about the point I have marked with the letter
5 B on the attached plan. I think that the remaining
6 Saracens continued in a southerly direction further
7 down Rossville Street."
8 The attached plan is at AT15.20. The point
9 marked B -- this is an example of where the numbering
10 has changed. Can you start at 15.5. We are trying to
11 find the map, AT15.21. What this witness is describing
12 is a Saracen stopping at the gable end of block 1 but
13 also a further Saracen parked at about point B which is
14 a good deal further in to the car park than I think any
15 other witness puts it. If you go back to AT15.3 at
16 paragraph 19, he says:
17 "When the Saracens came in there were
18 hundreds, possibly thousands of people in the area of
19 wasteground around Eden Place and Pilot's Row.
20 "20. I remember that at least one soldier
21 got out of the Saracen which I could just see behind
22 the gable wall of block 1. He went immediately to the
23 door of the stairwell at the northeast corner of the
24 same block and then fired a shot into the stairwell.
25 Moments earlier I had seen people fleeing into the
1 stairwell. I do not know if anyone was injured as
2 a result."
3 Sounds like the soldier whose evidence we saw
4 yesterday, 033:
5 "I also saw a soldier get out from the rear
6 of the Saracen that I have marked with the letter B.
7 He took up a position some four to five feet from the
8 Saracen. He did not take cover. He immediately
9 started shooting in the direction of blocks 1 and 2,
10 where people at the alleyway were trying to get out of
11 the courtyard. I am unable to remember how many shots
12 were fired and I do not know whether anyone was hit as
13 a result. Large numbers of people were able to escape
14 through the alleyways between blocks 1 and 2 and blocks
15 2 and 3.
16 "22. As the crowds cleared I saw a group of
17 people by a body lying on the ground. I have marked
18 the approximate position of the body with the letter
19 C. I could see that Father Daly, who was our parish
20 priest, was one of the group around the body, but I did
21 not recognise anyone else. The soldiers were still in
22 the courtyard at the time but, as far as I could see,
23 no attempt was being made to arrest Father Daly or
24 anyone else with him. Later I heard that the boy I had
25 seen on the ground was Jack Duddy. I think that it was
1 about 20 minutes after the Saracens entered the
2 courtyard that I saw his body lying on the ground."
3 That must be, I think, an overestimate. He
4 then goes on to describe the shooting of Mickey
5 Bridge.
6 Another important witness is Sean Eugene
7 O'Neill whose evidence we have looked at for other
8 purposes before. We can take it at AO65.1. Mr O'Neill
9 was 16 at the time of Bloody Sunday and, on his own
10 admission, a regular rioter in Derry. He says in the
11 first paragraph of his statement to this Tribunal:
12 "On Sunday 30th January 1972 I was 16 years
13 old. Prior to Bloody Sunday my friends and I had been
14 regular rioters in Derry. I think I even rioted on
15 Christmas day in 1971. Rioting was good crack. Every
16 day I rioted at the junction of William Street and
17 Rossville Street which was known as 'Aggro Corner'. We
18 planned the riots in advance. There was a hard core of
19 rioters who knew exactly what we were doing and I was
20 one of those. We were costing the British Exchequer
21 a fortune and were difficult to catch because we were
22 fast and knew the area well. My nicknames were 'The
23 General' and 'Firebomb'."
24 He describes how he had attended the march at
25 Magilligan. We have already looked at his account in
1 relation to the shootings of Damien Donaghy and
2 John Johnston in William Street. But his evidence
3 insofar as it relates to this sector is worth looking
4 at in a little detail. At AO65.3, I can take it up at
5 paragraph 13, where he says this -- I should pause to
6 say that this is someone who, upon his account, was
7 sufficiently fleet of foot to have witnessed something
8 in all five sectors with which we are presently
9 dealing. At paragraph 13 he says this:
10 "I went back to William Street and ran east
11 towards barrier 14 and stood around the point marked 7
12 on the map. The soldiers to the east of the barrier
13 seemed to be taking cover behind their shields and
14 Saracens. I got up close to barrier 14. I would
15 always get very close to the barriers, as near as five
16 feet away. I would be so close to the soldiers that
17 I was able to kick their shields. I also used to sit
18 on top of the Saracens and pull the doors open. I was
19 within spitting distance of the soldiers to the east of
20 barrier 14 but the soldiers did not seem worried. If
21 it had been ordinary Brits behind barrier 14, I would
22 not have worried but because that day they were Paras,
23 it was a little more scary.
24 "14. My friends and I usually took shields
25 to the riots which had been left behind by the Army,
1 but we were unprepared on Bloody Sunday. The shields
2 were vital, because although they could not protect us
3 against an SLR they protected us against gas cannisters
4 and rubber bullets. That day, we found a makeshift
5 shield make up of corrugated sheeting at the rear of
6 the Lion Bar" in an area which he identifies:
7 "My friends and I had ripped this from
8 a building in the past and had used it to shelter us
9 a number of times. That day we sheltered behind it
10 again. On the video footage of Bloody Sunday of the
11 rioters at barrier 14, I would have been one of the
12 boys behind the barrier of sheeting shown in the
13 video. I also had a hanky to protect myself from the
14 gas. I took as much protection as I could.
15 "15. On Bloody Sunday the soldiers were
16 firing individual gas cannisters and rubber bullets
17 instead of firing volleys of shots. In my view they
18 did a lot of funny stuff that day. Usually the
19 ordinary regiment of soldiers would fire approximately
20 ten shots at the same time and would hit about six
21 rioters. They would then reload and in the meantime
22 the serious rioters (including me) would retaliate with
23 stones. But on Bloody Sunday they did not fire their
24 usual volleys. Some rubber bullets and gas cannisters
25 were fired from the Embassy Ballroom but not as many
1 bullets as I would have expected for such a large
2 crowd."
3 Then he deals with the water cannon, then the
4 last sentence of paragraph 16:
5 "I stalled for a few seconds but then barrier
6 14 was opened up by the soldiers so I turned and ran
7 south along Chamberlain Street and then turned right in
8 a westerly direction along Eden Place."
9 Then he refers to getting to the wasteground
10 at Eden Place where:
11 "... a Saracen had already driven east across
12 Eden Place from Rossville Street and had swung round"
13 at the point marked 9 on the map. That point is very
14 close to Eden Place and is approximately the point
15 where Lieutenant N's Pig arrived:
16 "The front of the Saracen was facing in
17 a westerly direction and the back door was facing
18 towards Chamberlain Street."
19 I pause there to say that is not how it
20 appears on the photograph:
21 "I knew that after a riot the soldiers used
22 to advance along Chamberlain Street and from
23 Rossville Street into Eden Place at the same time.
24 I knew that it was difficult to escape when they did
25 this because we could be trapped by their pincer
1 movement".
2 We then get to the passage in his statement
3 which I was looking at in relation to the evidence of
4 Lieutenant N, when he talked about the back door of the
5 Saracen being swung open and a large soldier with
6 spider-like legs coming out. At paragraph 19 there is
7 the reference which we have already seen to his running
8 towards the tall soldier and that soldier firing
9 a round in an easterly direction towards
10 Chamberlain Street, this witness passing him to the
11 south, and the soldier firing two more shots in the
12 same direction. Then at paragraph 20, he said this:
13 "After I had run past the tall soldier,
14 I intended to cut across the wasteground at Eden Place
15 to block 1 ... but there were lots of large puddles on
16 the wasteground which were covered in ice, so I ran
17 back east towards the western wall of the rear of the
18 Chamberlain Street houses and ran south along that
19 wall. The shooting was continuing intermittently.
20 Once I reached the fence at Pilot Row which separated
21 the wasteground from the car park ... I ran west
22 towards block 1 of the Rossville flats along the south
23 side of the fence. At this time there were around
24 6,000 people streaming south across the wasteground.
25 I could hear people screaming and the sound of the
1 Saracens' engines. Usually the wasteground at
2 Eden Place and Pilot Row was a good area to collect
3 stones and I would normally carry lots of stones, but
4 I could not that day because they were frozen and stuck
5 to the ground."
6 He then runs to the stairwell at the north
7 gable end of block 1:
8 "I ran up a couple of steps in the stairwell
9 but realised that I was no safer there so I ran back
10 out to the car park. By this time there were hundreds
11 of people jamming the stairwell.
12 "22. There were a lot of women running
13 slowly through the car park, so in order to avoid being
14 caught behind them, I ran south from the stairwell
15 along the eastern wall of block 1. A light coloured
16 car, possibly two tone, was parked near a garage at the
17 point market 11 on the map."
18 The map is at 65.30. There we see it, to the
19 east end of -- east side of block 1 towards the
20 northern end in approximately the position in which a
21 mini is shown in one of Mr Derrik Tucker's photographs,
22 the one that shows it at the north rather than the
23 southern end. If we go back to AO65.5, what he says at
24 paragraph 22, three lines up from the bottom is this:
25 "I had to run around the car because it was
1 parked too close to the garage and I could not run
2 straight past it. I then took cover at the south side
3 of the car for a couple of seconds.
4 "23. A Saracen was parked around the point
5 marked 12 on the map", which was at the southwest
6 corner of the western side of Chamberlain Street:
7 "I think that the lights of the Saracen were
8 facing south towards block 2, but I am not certain. It
9 was parked awkwardly. I ran east from point 11" just
10 to the east of block 1 "towards Chamberlain Street and
11 past the Saracen. The door on the west side of the
12 Saracen opened and a soldier jumped out and swung round
13 to the south side of the door. He was white with dark
14 hair, medium sized, approximately five eight to five
15 ten in height. He may have been wearing a helmet. As
16 he swung round the door, he had his rifle raised,
17 possibly at chest height, although I do not think he
18 was aiming at anything. He immediately fired three
19 shots. I also saw a soldier on the east side of the
20 Saracen who may have been trying to cut off those
21 people advancing south along the western wall of the
22 houses in Chamberlain Street. I heard other individual
23 shots being fired in the area."
24 Perhaps we ought to go back to the map to see
25 where he is placing 12B. AO65.30, he has the Saracen
1 in the place that I described just in effect on the 34
2 Chamberlain Street, just to the west of that. I think
3 it looks to be a position slightly more to the east
4 than the position of the Saracen as it appears in the
5 photograph. Back to 65.5. What he says at 24 is this:
6 "Because my peripheral vision was enhanced by
7 fear for my own security and the security of others, my
8 attention was caught by the figure of Jack Duddy, who
9 was a regular rioter, going down at around the point
10 marked 13 on the map. We were within calling distance
11 of each other. I think he had been running south from
12 the direction of Chamberlain Street. His head was
13 lying in a southwesterly direction towards the corner
14 of blocks 1 and 2 of the Rossville flats. I started to
15 go towards him but then decided not to take the chance
16 because I could still hear shooting. I could tell that
17 he was seriously injured but I did not know where on
18 his body he had been shot. On other occasions before
19 Bloody Sunday, I had gone out into gunfire to pull
20 people away to safety and I feel that I let myself down
21 that day.
22 "25. I ran past the soldiers standing at the
23 front of the Saracen. I looked back and saw ten to
24 twenty people running towards Jack Duddy from various
25 directions. They were brave people. At that time
1 crowds of people were still streaming south from all
2 directions and there was still continuous shooting.
3 "26. I was running east towards the low wall
4 of the playground at the northeast corner of the car
5 park. As I went past the southern gable end of the
6 western row of houses in Chamberlain Street I looked
7 back because I could see soldiers behind me. I saw
8 Mickey Bridge, who I recognised, near the southwest
9 corner of the gable wall at the point marked 14 on the
10 map."
11 Can we go back to the map, 65.30, he is
12 placing Jack Duddy at 13 and Michael Bridge at 14.
13 Back to page 5, the last line:
14 "A soldier swung out of the right-hand side
15 back door of the Saracen parked at point 12 and was
16 using his rifle within seconds. He was a white
17 soldier, about six-foot six inches tall. Mickey Bridge
18 was facing north towards the soldier standing near the
19 Saracen parked at point 12 and was swearing at them,
20 although I am not sure of his exact words. He was also
21 waving his arms around. The tall soldier I have
22 described aimed his rifle towards Mickey Bridge and
23 fired. Mickey fell backwards. I think he was shot in
24 the left leg. There was a lot of confusion. I started
25 to run towards Mickey Bridge, but the soldier moved
1 forward towards me and so I carried on running towards
2 the low wall of the playground. The wall was only two
3 feet high and there was a sea of people taking cover
4 behind it. I hid behind the wall and kept looking up
5 over it because the soldiers were still milling about
6 the area, about ten or twelve of them. There were
7 a number of soldiers standing near the stairwell at
8 the north end of block 1 at point 10 on the map,
9 although I cannot remember anything about their
10 appearance.
11 "27. Whilst I was at the low wall, I saw
12 Michael Bradley, who I knew, was standing towards the
13 centre of the car park at the point marked 15 on the
14 map, facing north towards... block 2 of the Rossville
15 flats."
16 If we go back to the map at 65.30, the point
17 marked 15 on the map is over to the eastern side of the
18 car park, in line with the southeastern gable end of
19 William Street, considerably further over to the east
20 than the witness that we were looking at a moment ago,
21 who thought he may have been a person considerably
22 further over to the west.
23 Going back to AO65.6, at paragraph 27, he
24 says this:
25 "I saw him" Michael Bradley "shot in the
1 upper part of his body and spinning round in an
2 anticlockwise direction towards block 2 of the
3 Rossville flats. As Michael Bradley was hit, I saw
4 smoke emanating from the rifle of the SLR of one of the
5 soldiers standing near the block 1 stairwell. I recall
6 seeing a couple of puffs of smoke coming from that area
7 before Michael Bradley was shot. I also have
8 a recollection of seeing soldiers walking towards the
9 garages beneath the flats in block 1. For some reason,
10 I think that there were two soldiers at the southeast
11 corner of the Rossville flats car park, but I am not
12 sure when I saw them. I could still hear shooting but
13 did not see who was being fired at.
14 "28. Within seconds of his being hit,
15 a crowd of people had gathered around Michael Bradley
16 even though they were still under fire. A lot of
17 people in my view deserved medals that day. If
18 Michael Bradley had been left on his own after he had
19 been shot, I may have gone out to help but I was
20 thinking of my own self-preservation at the time.
21 I now regret not going out to help but at that time,
22 due to the fact that I had caused so much trouble to
23 the soldiers by rioting, I thought I would have been
24 killed if I had been caught that day. My friends and
25 I used to keep about 600 soldiers busy or tied up every
1 day by rioting and, as a consequence, I was not liked
2 by the soldiers or the RUC."
3 Just pausing there, some of the significant
4 matters that one gets from this account is that
5 Jack Duddy was one of the rioters. On this account as
6 in others, he is described as running from
7 Chamberlain Street rather than from the wasteground
8 when he was shot. He says, as indeed do others as
9 well, that Jack Duddy was shot before Michael Bridge
10 and that Michael Bridge was shot before
11 Michael Bradley; Derrik Tucker's evidence, which we saw
12 before lunch, is to the same effect. He appears to put
13 the soldier or soldiers who shot Duddy and Bridge as on
14 the west side of Pig number 2.
15 In the case of Bridge it might be more
16 accurate to describe it as to the east side of block 1
17 of the flats -- I am so sorry, I am confusing two
18 different concepts: he appears to put the soldiers who
19 shot Duddy and Bridge as on the west side of the Pig
20 and the soldier who shot Michael Bradley as being near
21 the block 1 stairwell if we go to paragraph 29 of his
22 statement, he says this:
23 "I cannot remember seeing any of the injured
24 being carried away from the car park. I did not see
25 any nailbombs or missiles thrown in the car park.
1 Civilians outnumbered soldiers by fifty to one. It
2 would have been crazy to have thrown a missile in the
3 car park that day because there were so many civilians
4 there. I have heard that apparently civilians were
5 throwing missiles at the soldiers. I can recall seeing
6 two or three soldiers at the south end of block 1 ...
7 and if there had been civilians throwing missiles from
8 the Rossville flats, they could easily have thrown
9 bottles at the soldiers standing there. Also if the
10 IRA had been positioned in the Rossville flats that
11 day, there would have been a lot of soldiers shot
12 because so many soldiers were in the open area of the
13 car park. That day I did not see any civilians
14 carrying or using any sort of weapon, nor did I hear
15 any gunfire, other than from SLR rifles.
16 "30. Whilst I was still hiding by the low
17 wall, I heard a boy screaming that he was dying from
18 behind the low wall to the north side of block 2 of the
19 Rossville flats opposite the gable end of
20 Chamberlain Street. He was saying 'Help me, help me,
21 I am dying', although I could not see him. A boy in
22 denims went over to help him."
23 It is not clear who is being referred to
24 here, but it is possible that it was Patrick McDaid
25 who, on his own account, was struck by a bullet as he
1 dived over the low wall to the north of the gap between
2 blocks 2 and 3. At paragraph 32 he says this:
3 "I waited for a short time by the east wall
4 of block 2. No one was running straight across from
5 block 2 towards Joseph Place because of the continuous
6 firing. I then ran east to the wall below
7 Fahan Street East and ran south along the wall past the
8 bottom of the Fahan Street steps and then west to the
9 entrance of the alleyway behind Joseph Place ... this
10 alleyway lies between the wall of a car park on the
11 eastern side and the high wall of the gardens of the
12 Joseph Place maisonettes on the western side. The wall
13 of the car park is very low at the northern end of
14 alleyway but it rises gradually towards the southern
15 end of the wall. My intention was to run towards the
16 houses at St Columb's Wells for safety. The alleyway
17 was crammed with people. As I reached the southern end
18 of the alleyway, I could see soldiers on the city walls
19 and about seven or eight rounds were fired at us from
20 the city walls. Soil was shooting up from the top of
21 the eastern wall of the car park. I could stand up at
22 the southern alleyway because the wall was higher and
23 I could feel the soil hitting the back of my neck.
24 Women were running from the southern end of the
25 alleyway across Fahan Street East to St Columb's
1 Wells. We did not risk running across to St. Columb's
2 Wells because of the continuous shooting and
3 I retreated to the northern end of the alleyway. There
4 were hundreds of people in the alleyway at that time.
5 "33. I have a recollection that I was in
6 the Joseph Place alleyway more than once that afternoon
7 and I am not sure whether it was the first or second
8 time."
9 I think I am going to leave paragraph 33 at
10 the moment because this is dealing with matters that
11 relate exclusively to a later sector and I will come to
12 it in its proper place.
13 If we may then just pause for breath at this
14 juncture, it can be seen from the testimony that we
15 have looked at so far that accounts of who shot
16 Jack Duddy, or who appeared to shoot him, vary. They
17 fall into a number of categories.
18 There are those witnesses who talk of
19 somebody firing from near the Sergeant's Pig parked
20 between the north end of block 1 and the south end of
21 Chamberlain Street and of these some say that the
22 soldier who shot him was on the west and some on the
23 east side of the vehicle. Into this category fall
24 Mrs Bonner, who talked about a soldier firing from the
25 hip; Cathleen O'Donnell, who talked about a black
1 soldier firing from the hip; Mr Derrik Tucker, who
2 talked about a soldier firing at shoulder height from
3 the near side of the Pig to the east and his son,
4 Martin Tucker, who talks about a soldier firing from
5 the offside (which would be the west) together with his
6 brother, Derrik Tucker; and the witness that we have
7 just been looking at, Sean Eugene O'Neill, who talks
8 about firing from the west side.
9 The eastern side of the Pig was not that far
10 from the back of the Chamberlain Street houses, as we
11 can see and there is one witness who talks of soldiers
12 firing from the back of those houses without reference
13 to any particular Pig. She is Mrs Betty Dunleavey.
14 Her evidence may be found at AD169.2. She did not give
15 evidence to Lord Widgery.
16 Her flat was at 5 Garden Place in block 1 and
17 at paragraph 8 she said this:
18 "I then saw a soldier kneeling down on one
19 knee at the point marked C on the attached map.
20 I cannot remember anything distinctive about his
21 uniform although I could tell he was a soldier. He had
22 a helmet on and was holding a rifle in his hands.
23 I saw him shoot a boy, whose position I have marked D
24 on the attached map. I do not know from where the boy
25 appeared, although I think he was running towards the
1 entrance to the Rossville flats' car park. I now know
2 this boy to have been Jack Duddy."
3 AD169.4 will show where she is referring to.
4 The soldier kneeling at point C is, on her account,
5 kneeling just to the west of No. 34 Chamberlain Street
6 and the boy at point D is about a third of the way down
7 block 1 and about ten yards or so out to the east. If
8 you go back to AD169.2, in paragraph 9, she says:
9 "The soldier must have had him right in his
10 sights as he shot him. I could only see the top half
11 of the boy's body from my position on the balcony. His
12 body jumped when he was shot and he twirled around as
13 he fell. I saw the body fall out of my line of sight,
14 although I did not see it hit the ground. This was the
15 first shot I heard in the car park that day. I had
16 heard earlier shots coming from the Rossville Street
17 side of block 1, although they did not seem to be of
18 high velocity, unlike the shot fired at Jack Duddy."
19 In another category are those who speak of
20 a soldier firing from the north of block 1, for
21 example, Mrs Duffy. Another witness who falls into
22 this category is Noel Doherty. At AD91.3 he deals with
23 the position. He was 16 at the time of Bloody Sunday.
24 He refers, in paragraph 15 to running west up William
25 Street and turning left -- this is west from the
1 barrier -- and running down Chamberlain Street in
2 a southerly direction at a time when it was practically
3 empty. Then he gets out into the courtyard of the
4 flats. At the bottom of the page, paragraph 18, the
5 third line, he says:
6 "I turned to run to the direction of the
7 alleyway between blocks 1 and 2 of the Rossville
8 flats. However, I could see that this exit was
9 congested. I would say that about 150 people were
10 trying to get into that alleyway and the entrance door
11 into block 1 of the Rossville flats which is at the
12 point marked 3. It seemed to me the people were trying
13 to get into block 1 but the doorway and the alleyway
14 were jammed.
15 "19. I decided to head for the alleyway
16 between blocks 2 and 3 of the flats as this did not
17 seem to be as congested."
18 Then in paragraph 20 after he has referred to
19 beginning to run, he says:
20 "I looked around. I cannot recall whether or
21 not I saw any cars or other vehicles in the courtyard.
22 However, at this point I saw a soldier standing on the
23 corner of block 1 of the Rossville flats at the point
24 marked 4 on the attached map."
25 The point marked 4 on the attached map is the
1 northwest corner of block 1:
2 "He was leaning against block 1 but did not
3 seem to me to be taking shelter. He was holding up his
4 rifle just under his armpit and aiming through his
5 sights. I cannot recall whether or not he had anything
6 such as a mask or visor over his face. The soldier was
7 firing shots in a diagonal line in the direction of the
8 alleyway running between blocks 2 and 3. I saw his
9 rifle jerk up but did not see any smoke nor flashes
10 coming from the rifle. I heard about five or six shots
11 go past me.
12 "21. I carried on running in the direction
13 of the alleyway between blocks 2 and 3 of the Rossville
14 flats, glancing over my shoulder as I ran. I could
15 just about see Army vehicles towards the
16 Rossville Street end of the courtyard in the
17 approximate positions marked 5 and 6. I cannot recall
18 how many or what type of vehicles they were.
19 "22. As I was running to make my escape,
20 I noticed a young man had fallen to the right of me.
21 Although I did not know who he was at the time, I now
22 believe that this young man was Jack Duddy. At the
23 time I thought he had tripped, as he had fallen in the
24 middle of the courtyard. I did not realise that he had
25 been shot. I did not stop but carried on running,
1 trying to keep my body as low as possible. When I got
2 to the low wall (about three feet or so high) which is
3 a few feet north of block 2 of the Rossville flats,
4 I jumped over and got down behind it."
5 He does not there ascribe a shot to any
6 particular soldier but he refers to shots going past
7 him from a rifle jerking up and a soldier standing on
8 the corner of block 1 of the flats.
9 At paragraph 31, which is at page 5, he,
10 having referred to the wounding of what may be
11 Michael Bridge and Michael Bradley, says at paragraph
12 31:
13 "At this point I tried to crawl along behind
14 the low wall to get to Fahan Street East. I crawled
15 eastwards behind and along the low wall, crawling past
16 the others, taking shelter there. When I came to the
17 end of the wall in the approximate position marked 9 on
18 the map, I stood up to make my get away through the
19 alleyway between blocks 2 and 3 of the Rossville
20 flats. Before running from the low wall to the
21 alleyway between blocks 2 and 3 of the Rossville flats
22 I turned around quickly and faced northwest looking in
23 the direction of the northern end of block 1 of the
24 Rossville flats. Again, I saw the soldier standing at
25 the position marked 4 aiming his rifle at me. At that
1 moment two shots hit the concrete wall to the east of
2 me, taking chunks out of the wall approximately eight
3 feet off the ground. Dust from the damaged concrete
4 got into my eyes. I put my hands to my eyes and had to
5 stop to try and get my sight back. I ran for cover
6 through the alleyway between blocks 2 and 3."
7 If one goes to the map again at AD91.8, he is
8 referring to a soldier, the soldier that he is talking
9 about is at spot 4 to the northeast of block 1 and at
10 the point of his statement which I have just reached,
11 point 9, he has come to escape towards the junction
12 between blocks 2 and 3.
13 Another witness in this category who talks of
14 a soldier firing from the northeast corner of block 1
15 is Donal Deeney, AD26.4. We saw this evidence in
16 connection with Michael Bridge. In paragraph 16 we
17 were looking at his evidence in relation to
18 Michael Bridge. What he said is that, the fourth line:
19 "Bridge made a run for the soldier who
20 I thought had probably shot Jack Duddy at point G on
21 the attached plan."
22 Point G on the attached plan, AD26.9, is the
23 northeastern corner of block 1 of the Rossville flats.
24 Also I think I said a moment ago, and if
25 I said so it was an error, that Cathleen O'Donnell fell
1 into the category of those who talked of someone firing
2 from near Pig 2. She in fact falls into the category
3 that I am presently dealing with, she speaks, as we saw
4 before lunch, of a black man with long legs at the
5 north end of block 1, holding a large gun from his
6 waist and shooting it around the car park at waist
7 height and up in the air, apparently aiming at nothing
8 in particular, and she also refers to a white solder
9 kneeling and shooting from his shoulder in no
10 particular direction all around the car park.
11 So the broad division is between somebody
12 firing from one or other side of Pig number 2 and
13 a soldier firing from the northeast corner of block 1.
14 There is one witness who talks of a soldier
15 firing from the back of a Pig in Eden Place. If we
16 take Am303.1, we will find the evidence of a James
17 McKinney, who was 17 years of age. James Benedict
18 McKinney, who was 17 years of age in 1972. His account
19 at paragraph 23 at page 303.4, is as follows:
20 "23. I spun round to look to the north to
21 see what was happening and I saw a Saracen parked at
22 about position E. The Saracen was parked up by the
23 path near to the wasteground of Eden Place. I could
24 hear live velocity gunfire from the direction of the
25 Saracen. The Saracen I saw at position E had its
1 headlights facing towards Free Derry Corner and its
2 rear facing towards the junction of
3 Rossville Street/William Street/Little James Street."
4 If we look at the map, that is to be found at
5 Am303.8. He is talking in this portion of his evidence
6 about a Saracen, which he places at point E by
7 Eden Place with, as we shall see in a moment, somebody
8 behind it at point F for, if we may go back to AM303.4,
9 what he says at paragraph 24:
10 "One soldier came from behind the rear of the
11 Saracen. I first saw the soldier at the back of the
12 Saracen and I could see three quarters of his body. He
13 was at about position F. He was right handed because
14 he had his rifle to his right shoulder. He was using
15 the Saracen for cover and was up tight and close to
16 it. I was also conscious of other Saracens moving in
17 behind the one I saw at E.
18 "25. The soldier had his rifle up and was
19 aiming at head height and I recall there was a crack
20 noise of live gunfire and I saw the jerk movement of
21 the rifle recoiling after the shot had been fired.
22 I saw all of this whilst I was standing at position D
23 and I felt as though the shots were being fired
24 generally in my direction, which made me feel
25 vulnerable."
1 Position D is to the south of the southwest
2 gable end of No. 36 Chamberlain Street:
3 "26. The soldier I saw had no real distinct
4 features other than he was about six-foot tall and of
5 medium build. He was wearing a military uniform but
6 had no distinctive badges on his uniform. I do not
7 know if he was wearing a camouflage uniform or not, but
8 he did not appear to have the same uniform on as the
9 soldiers I had seen at the barricade on William
10 Street. I think he was wearing a helmet, but it was
11 certainly not a riot helmet."
12 I can go to the next paragraph:
13 "27. I saw the soldier aim and shoot one
14 shot. When I heard and saw the shot fired by the
15 soldier at position F, I saw a man immediately fall at
16 about position G. I saw the man roll along the
17 ground. As the man fell, I knew that he was shot and
18 as he rolled and rolled he ended up flat on his back.
19 My impression was that he was falling forwards when he
20 was shot as if he was about to hit the deck and he fell
21 over on his left-hand side and then rolled and came to
22 rest at about position H.
23 "28. The man who had been shot was between
24 17 and 20 years old with short dark hair and clean
25 shaven. He was about five-foot ten and of medium
1 build. I cannot remember what type of trousers he was
2 wearing, but I think he was wearing a red jumper."
3 If you then go to his map, AM303.8, the
4 target or victim starts off at G on this account and
5 rolls over to H having been shot by a soldier at F. If
6 this constitutes evidence of what is in fact the death
7 of Jack Duddy, it places the firer at a position quite
8 different from I think almost all of the other evidence
9 and the victim as ending up at point H which is quite
10 different from the position at which Jack Duddy in fact
11 ended up, that we have seen in the photographs that we
12 were looking at a moment ago.
13 Lastly there is the evidence of a witness
14 called James Christopher McKnight, whose statement
15 relevantly begins at AM312.9. He was a 14 year old
16 schoolboy in January 1972, living at the Rossville
17 flats. The second half of the page. What he says, so
18 far as presently relevant, is this:
19 "12. I ran into the flats and stood on the
20 balcony on the northern end of block 3, which runs the
21 length of the block on the car park side. Where I was
22 standing is marked 7 on photograph A attached to this
23 statement and on the map."
24 That is at the very north end of block 3:
25 "From the balcony I could see a Saracen which
1 had stopped roughly at the spot marked 8."
2 That is at the mouth of the car park:
3 "I think about four, although there could
4 have been five or six, soldiers had got out of the
5 Saracen and were standing close to it. I think the
6 soldiers were wearing helmets but were without visors.
7 I knew that they were Paras because they had tight
8 fitting helmets ... a couple of the soldiers were
9 standing with their guns held up to their shoulders.
10 The one nearest to me appeared to be firing from the
11 hip. He was approximately at the position marked 9 on
12 the map. I knew that he was firing real bullets
13 because I heard the crack and could see the puff of
14 smoke from his rifle. He was shooting in the direction
15 of the people who were fleeing through the alleyway
16 between blocks 2 and 3 ... 80 per cent to 90 per cent
17 of the people were south of the Saracen, but there were
18 a few stragglers who were very close to the Saracen.
19 "13. I saw a boy who was running in the
20 direction of the alleyway between block 2 and 3 fall.
21 He was 15 yards from the soldier nearest me, who was
22 firing from the hip and was approximately in the
23 position marked 10 on the map. The boy keeled over and
24 rolled over a couple of times towards the wire fence
25 marked 11 on the map. I do not remember what the boy
1 was wearing but he was only a little older than I was.
2 I assumed that he had been shot in the back. No one
3 stopped with the boy and the shooting continued, one or
4 two shots at a time. I now know that the boy was
5 Jack Duddy."
6 That evidence does not make it wholly clear
7 whether he is saying that the soldier at 10, or the
8 soldier at 9 is the one who is responsible for killing
9 Jack Duddy. But the position of both of them appears
10 at AM312.17, where we will see that the spot marked as
11 9 is just below the southwest gable end, below number
12 36. The spot marked 10 is to the south of
13 Chamberlain Street, just above the V of Rossville
14 flats. The boy is described as rolling over a couple
15 of times towards the fence marked 11. The fence marked
16 11 is what has the crossings on the line which I have
17 just shown on the screen, it is the fence which divides
18 the netball area from the car park. That is a way away
19 from where Jack Duddy fell so it may be that this
20 witness is mistaken as to the location of what it was
21 that he saw, if what he saw was the fall of Jack Duddy.
22 Not all of the evidence has Jack Duddy shot
23 whilst running. One of the witnesses is a Patrick
24 Doherty, whose statement relevantly begins at AD96.2.
25 Patrick Doherty was 16 years old at the time. Perhaps
1 before we look at what he says under this heading we
2 ought to look at the first page of his statement,
3 AD96.1, because what he says there is this, in
4 paragraph 2:
5 "The rioting which took place before 30th
6 January 1972 was fairly ritualised. We used to stand
7 in certain places and throw stones at the soldiers and
8 they used to fire rubber bullets back at us. There
9 were imaginary lines on the outskirts of the Bogside
10 which the Army did not cross. The Bogside itself was
11 a no-go area for the Army. There were occasions during
12 the rioting when the IRA would shoot at the British
13 Army, but these were rare. We were not pleased when
14 the IRA became involved, because it would disrupt our
15 rioting, the soldiers would fire at us rioters and we
16 would have to stop rioting."
17 If one then goes to paragraph 8 at 96.2, we
18 will see what he did. He says:
19 "I was in quite a large crowd. Everyone had
20 been running away from the CS gas at barrier 14. Many
21 people appeared to be angry. I saw some people
22 throwing stones. I looked around for stones to throw.
23 I would certainly have thrown some if I could find any,
24 but I could not. After a time I saw the soldiers start
25 to move barrier 12 back. I knew the soldiers wanted to
1 come through the barrier and wanted to get some stones
2 or bricks to throw at them. I expected the soldiers to
3 move up to the junction between William Street and
4 Little James Street, but did not expect that they would
5 go any further. I therefore left the wasteground and
6 moved into the derelict building which is marked D on
7 the map and started to pick up some bricks. At this
8 stage, there were no people in my immediate vicinity.
9 "9. When I was in the derelict building
10 I saw at least two Army Pigs drive down Little James
11 Street and on to Rossville Street. The one Pig that
12 I was focusing on then pulled left out of
13 Rossville Street and on to the wasteground between
14 Eden Place and Pilot Row, at the point marked E.
15 I left the derelict building carrying some bricks to
16 throw at the soldiers in the Pig."
17 We had better have a look at the map at
18 AD96.7 to see what he is talking about, because what
19 happened was that he appears to have ensconced himself
20 in the derelict building, which he marks as D, which
21 I assume is where the dot is. That is the building at
22 which we saw that picture of the group of soldiers,
23 which may have included Colonel Wilford standing at one
24 stage during the course of events in the picture that
25 we looked at yesterday. That is where he went for his
1 bricks. E, where he refers to the first Pig arriving
2 is, broadly speaking, where it is shown to be in the
3 photographs of the day.
4 If we then go back to page 96.2, he says in
5 paragraph 9 in the fifth line:
6 "As I approached, the back doors of the Pig
7 swung open. A soldier jumped out of the back of the
8 Pig and before his feet even hit the ground, he fired
9 a live shot into the air. I knew it was a live shot -
10 I could tell the difference between high velocity shots
11 and rubber bullets as I had lived in the area for many
12 years. The soldier who fired was very tall and
13 skinny. He wore a round helmet of a type I had not
14 seen before and his face was blackened. As soon as
15 I heard the shot, I knew I had to get out of the area.
16 I did not stay to look at anything else. I immediately
17 dropped the bricks I was carrying and ran along
18 Eden Place and towards Chamberlain Street."
19 His route is shown on the map:
20 "10. When I got into Chamberlain Street, it
21 was packed full of people. Many of these were
22 panicking and nobody knew what to do. Everyone was
23 going south down Chamberlain Street towards the
24 Rossville flats car park. As I reached the end of
25 Chamberlain Street, which opened out into the Rossville
1 flats car park, a man came round the corner to my right
2 carrying a woman I later learned was Peggy Deery.
3 I remember that the man was having difficulty carrying
4 her. She was wearing black tights and had a large hole
5 in her left leg near her hip. She had some kind of
6 wound," then he goes into details not presently
7 relevant.
8 Over the page to paragraph 12 he says this:
9 "There was a crowd in the car park and
10 I could tell that soldiers were firing rubber bullets
11 into the crowd. I could not actually see the soldiers
12 who were firing because they were out of my line of
13 sight. I do remember, however, seeing other soldiers
14 (not the soldiers who were firing) at the north end of
15 block 1 ... I cannot however, remember specifically
16 what they were doing.
17 "13. I could both hear and see the rubber
18 bullets being fired into the crowd in the car park.
19 The crowd were standing facing the soldiers and were
20 shouting and roaring at them. They were not stoning
21 the soldiers because there was nothing in the car park
22 to throw. I remember, however, that one of the crowd
23 actually picked up a rubber bullet and threw it back at
24 the soldiers.
25 "14. There were two other boys standing in
1 between the walls with me. Suddenly, one of them
2 shouted 'Look, there's a Sticky bastard and he's got a
3 short'. By this he meant that there was a member of
4 the Official IRA carrying a handgun. I immediately
5 started looking into the crowd in the middle of the car
6 park, particularly at people's hands, but I could not
7 see anyone carrying a gun. The boy who had shouted was
8 hysterical and moved to climb over the wall into the
9 car park - I remember the other boy grabbed his collar
10 to restrain him.
11 "15. The sound of rubber bullets was
12 replaced with the sound of live rounds. I could
13 recognise the high velocity crack of the bullets. The
14 amount of echoing around the car park made it extremely
15 difficult to tell exactly where the shots were being
16 fired from, but they were certainly being fired from
17 the direction of the British Army. At this point most
18 of the crowd started running away towards and out of
19 the exits between blocks 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 ... However,
20 a number of people in a group standing at the point
21 I have marked G on the attached plan remained. They
22 were facing the direction of the soldiers and the Army
23 vehicles in the wasteground (i.e. north). I recognised
24 Jackie Duddy as one of the group, as I knew him from
25 boxing."
1 If we look at AD96.7, we will find where he
2 is talking about. We will also find the route of his
3 passage described on the chart. His route from barrier
4 14 is described. At D he picks up his ammunition. He
5 then goes past the Pig at E, across Eden Place and down
6 Chamberlain Street. The place that he is referring to
7 as that of the group is at G, the group facing in the
8 direction of the soldiers. If we go back to AD96.3, we
9 will find what he says at paragraph 16:
10 "The next thing I saw was Jackie Duddy
11 falling. I think he fell on to his back. At the time
12 he was shot, Jackie Duddy was standing shouting at the
13 soldiers, he was not running away. He definitely did
14 not have anything in his hands. I know this because
15 I had been looking intently at everyone's hands in the
16 car park to look for the gunman that the boy standing
17 next to me had spotted. At the time he was shot
18 I think he was facing north towards the wasteground -
19 i.e. towards the Army. Almost as soon as he fell, two
20 boys went to help him. I could not see him once he was
21 on the ground because they blocked my view."
22 Then he goes on to deal with Michael Bridge.
23 So he is another witness who says that he was close to
24 Jack Duddy when he fell, but he puts him as facing the
25 soldiers and at the place described on his map.
1 Another witness whose evidence we ought to
2 look at is Joseph Doherty who gave evidence to
3 Lord Widgery. He was on the wasteland when the
4 Saracens, as he described them, came in to the Bogside
5 and was with a load of stragglers because he was
6 looking for a friend whom he had lost. His description
7 is at Widgery, Day 8, page 10. At E he was asked this:
8 "Question: As you were running away did you
9 see some soldiers coming out of the end of
10 Chamberlain Street?
11 Answer: I did." Then he said that they
12 tried to arrest a man ahead of him:
13 "Question: Did they try and arrest you?
14 Answer: No.
15 Question: So far as you know? How did they
16 arrest the man who was ahead of you?
17 Answer: The man who was ahead of me more or
18 less ran into the two soldiers. They came out of
19 Chamberlain Street, and he more or less ran into
20 them."
21 He then made for the alleyway between the
22 high flat buildings on the Rossville Street side, which
23 presumably means the alleyway between block 1 and 2.
24 At the last question on this page, he was asked:
25 "Question: Did you see people looking back
1 over their shoulders, and did you do the same?
2 Answer: I did".
3 The top of the next page:
4 "Question: Did you see a soldier?
5 Answer: I saw a second soldier - not the
6 soldier who had apprehended the man, but the soldier
7 who was just standing there.
8 Question: Where was he?
9 Answer: He was at the very end of
10 Chamberlain Street - the back wall of the last house in
11 Chamberlain Street.
12 Question: On the Rossville side of
13 Chamberlain Street or on the other side?
14 Answer: On the Rossville Street side.
15 Question: Did you see him do anything?
16 Answer: He fired one round into the ground
17 in front of the crowd, and at that stage I turned and
18 ran."
19 He makes it clear that he ran through the
20 alleyway between the flats.
21 This is a soldier coming out of
22 Chamberlain Street, which might suggest that it was
23 a soldier in C Company. The shot in question is not
24 described in the evidence as either a live bullet or
25 a rubber bullet. What is said in the evidence is at
1 page 18, whilst being cross-examined by Mr Gibbens, the
2 top of the page, please, at B, he was asked this:
3 "Question: Tell us about this first shot
4 you heard. Was it an aimed shot?
5 Answer: It was not, no.
6 Question: How was it fired?
7 Answer: It was fired into the ground ...
8 Question: Do you mean into the courtyard or
9 down into the earth?
10 Answer: Into the courtyard."
11 For some reason the question is repeated:
12 "Question: Into the earth?
13 Answer: Yes, into the courtyard in front of
14 the crowd.
15 Question: Obviously it was a shot which was
16 intended to hit no one?
17 Answer: Yes, that is correct.
18 Question: Might it perhaps have been
19 accidental?
20 Answer: It may have been.
21 Question: Obviously it had no purpose or
22 sense to it and it may have been accidental?
23 Answer: It may have been."
24 From which I take it that what he was saying
25 was that a shot was discharged into the ground in the
1 courtyard in circumstances where it did not appear to
2 have been aimed and may well have been accidental.
3 Even if that was so, if this was a live bullet it is
4 not one which is accounted for in the 108 bullets, or
5 so far as any evidence goes to show, in any other
6 evidence about the discharge of live bullets on the
7 day. This witness then ran to the alleyway between
8 what looks like blocks 1 or 2 and he was -- we need not
9 look up the material in the transcript -- then called
10 by others who were with a man who was believed to be
11 wounded and he assisted them to take that man to get to
12 the last, or the second to last house in Joseph Place.
13 In the event the man whose name was Pious McCarron
14 turned out not to be wounded.
15 If we look at his statement to this Tribunal,
16 at AD76.2, paragraph 11, we can see that he says this:
17 "As I ran down the wasteground, I became
18 aware of an Army APC on my right. It was coming into
19 the wasteground. As far as I can recollect there were
20 two more in Rossville Street. I cannot describe the
21 vehicles or their positions in detail. I can recall
22 that the engines were noisy and revving hard in low
23 gear. I recall seeing two or three soldiers pile out
24 of the back of the APC on to the wasteground, crouching
25 low to the ground and then running.
1 "12. I did not see an APC hit anyone. The
2 soldiers I saw did not come out shooting. I did not
3 see or hear any gunfire from the flats. I can remember
4 that as the APC came on to the wasteground, people who
5 had been standing waiting began to run again.
6 "13. As I ran close to the back of the last
7 house on Chamberlain Street, I became aware of two
8 soldiers who had appeared on my left-hand side coming
9 round the back of the last house. They must have
10 exited Chamberlain Street at the south. One grabbed
11 a man. I cannot describe the soldier or the man in
12 detail. I almost bumped into the other who was about
13 five or six yards away from me. I managed to skirt to
14 the right and ran past him. He said nothing.
15 "14. Everyone around me was making for the
16 alleyway between blocks 1 and 2 ... as I ran across the
17 car park I looked back and saw the soldier (I believe
18 it was the same one) still standing at the corner of
19 the backyard of the last house. The best description
20 I could give was that he was fairly tall, wearing
21 a camouflage jacket and had a blackened face. As
22 I glanced back I saw him take a casual shot - he lifted
23 his rifle to about waist height and fired a shot into
24 the ground in the direction of the alleyway between
25 blocks 1 and 2.
1 "15. Just as I got into the alleyway
2 I looked around again and saw him lift the rifle to his
3 shoulder - I cannot remember whether it was the right
4 or left shoulder - and fire an aimed shot, again in the
5 direction of the alleyway between blocks 1 and 2.
6 "16 . Dozens of people had been running
7 towards the alleyway, but I now cannot remember any
8 further detail. I have a feeling that there were not
9 a lot of people in front of me as I ran. I was
10 conscious of a few behind me. I did not see a gunman
11 or hear a shot in that area. The first shots I heard
12 and saw that day were those that I have mentioned from
13 the soldier."
14 What he describes in this evidence is a shot
15 fired into the ground, but what he here describes as a
16 casual shot followed by another aimed shot in the
17 direction of the alleyway between blocks 1 and 2. This
18 may be an account of the firing of S, in that on S's
19 evidence he fired twelve shots towards the gap between
20 blocks 1 and 2 from the rear of Chamberlain Street,
21 although S had not exited Chamberlain Street at the
22 south; he had not come down Chamberlain Street at all,
23 he had come into the flats car park in one of the Pigs.
24 If one is just pausing there for a moment,
25 one can see that although the picture is not clear as
1 to who shot Jack Duddy, and there are a number of
2 different categories of evidence, the general picture
3 given by these civilian witnesses is of Jack Duddy
4 falling, having been fired upon with no apparent
5 justification arising from any conduct of his, indeed,
6 the explicit evidence of Father Daly is that he was
7 doing nothing more than run away from the Army into the
8 car park of the Rossville flats.
9 There is some evidence that suggests that he
10 was someone who took part in rioting and some evidence
11 that might suggest that he had, or intended to confront
12 soldiers with a stone. The evidence that I am
13 referring to is that of Sean Eugene O'Neill who
14 describes him as a regular rioter in a statement we
15 just looked at. Christy Lavery says that he had
16 a stone in his hand, but Brian Johnston describes that
17 as a pebble which he thinks he may have scooped up as
18 he fell. Patrick Doherty recalls Duddy shouting at the
19 soldiers, but with nothing in his hands. The Sunday
20 Times Insight article carried, as we shall see in due
21 course, an account of Jack Duddy as one of those whom
22 the others surged around the gable end of
23 Chamberlain Street, having come down Chamberlain Street
24 and gave tongue at the soldiers.
25 But whether that account is correct, at any
1 rate so far as it applies to Jack Duddy, is
2 questionable in view of the sizable amount of evidence
3 to the effect that he was not coming down
4 Chamberlain Street, but coming into Rossville Street
5 car park by the mouth between block 1 and the west end
6 of Chamberlain Street.
7 I wonder, sir, I am about to come on to the
8 topic of the wounded, subject to one matter. I wonder
9 whether that would be a convenient moment?
10 LORD SAVILLE: Yes, 9.30 tomorrow morning,
11 please.
12 (3.00 pm)
13 (Proceedings adjourned until
14 Wednesday, 17th May 2000 at 9.30 am)